Kensei Warpriest for new players (Human 12/8 Fighter/Cleric)

[EllisDee37]

Last updated Jan 8th, 2017

This THF heavy armor frontline melee build is designed to play like a paladin. As a general rule you'd be better off playing a pure paladin, but this fighter variant is still viable. I keep this character in my stable as a variation that focuses more on tactics (stunning blow and trip), action boosts (12/rest at cap with ship buffs), ameliorating strike, and as an excuse to have a Legendary Dreadnought character, as opposed to paladins who will likely be in Divine Crusader. Both Master's Blitz and Ameliorating Strike perform better for TWF, but they still function well enough with THF to be effective.

No tomes are required or listed. If you happen to have a +2 int tome put the extra skill points into Balance or Jump.

Alignment doesn't matter. In general True Neutral takes less damage from certain rare enemies, but non-neutral alignments open up the possibility for specialty twists in epics. eg: Your weapons bypass DR/Good if you're good aligned.

Human is preferred for the extra skill points and DDoor clickie. If you want to go with a different race, drop the dragonmark and sacrifice the heal skill. Ideally use a +2 int tome by level 7 to minimize the skills shortfall, but it should work even without an int tome. Non-humans get at least 9 AP to play with in either their racial tree or the various class trees.


Kensei Warpriest
12/8 Fighter/Cleric


Level Order

1. Fighter. . . . .6. Fighter. . . . 11. Cleric. . . . .16. Fighter
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Cleric. . . . .12. Fighter . . . .17. Fighter
3. Cleric. . . . . 8. Fighter . . . .13. Cleric . . . . 18. Fighter
4. Fighter. . . . .9. Cleric. . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Cleric. . . . .10. Fighter . . . .15. Cleric . . . . 20. Cleric


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .18. . . .18. . . .18. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .16. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 12. . . .12. . . .12. . . .12. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . . 8. . . .10. . . . 8. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .14. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . F. F. C .F .C. F. C .F .C. F. C .F .C. F. C .F .F .F .F .C
. . . . . 1. 2. 3 .4 .5. 6. 7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . . .1 .4. . .3. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . . . . .1. . .3. . .3. . .3. . .3. . .3. . . . 1. . .3. 22
UMD . . . 2. . . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 11
Jump. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Balance . 1. 1. . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .16. 4. 4 .4 .4. 4. 4 .4 .4. 4. 4 .4 .4. 4. 4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Least Dragonmark: Passage
.1 Fighter: Cleave
.2 Fighter: Stunning Blow
.3. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing
.3 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
.9. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
10 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Extend Spell
13 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
15. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
17 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
19 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
21 Epic . : Tactical Mastery
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Heavy Armor Master
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Tactical Combatant
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Astral Plane


Spells

Cleric

1. Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Remove Fear, Protection from Evil, Divine Favor, <Any>
2. Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy, Eagle's Splendor, <Any>, <Any>
3. Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, Prayer, <Any>
4. Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>

Enhancements (80 AP)

Kensei (35 AP)

• Kensei Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
  
  1. Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
  2. Tactics III, Weapon Group Specialization, Ascetic Training: Conditioning I
  3. Weapon Group Specialization
  4. Opportunity Attack, Weapon Group Specialization
  5. A Good Death: Melee, Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Deadly Strike, Keen Edge

Warpriest (22 AP)

• Smite Foe
  
  1. Divine Might III, Toughness III
  2. Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Inflame III
  3. Inflame: Energy Absorption III, Strength
  4. Ameliorating Strike

Stalwart Defender (14 AP)

• Toughness, Stalwart Defense
  
  1. Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
  2. Resilient Defense III
  3. Strong Defense III

Human (9 AP)

• Damage Boost
  
  1. Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Action Surge: Strength III, Improved Recovery
  2. Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door

Leveling Guide

1. Hum0 Damage Boost; Hum1 Dragonmark Focus: Orien I; Hum1 Improved Recovery
2. Ken0 Kensei Focus: Axes; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III
3. Hum1 Action Surge: Strength I; Hum2 Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door; War0 Smite Foe
4. War1 Toughness I, II; Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization
5. War1 Toughness III; War1 Divine Might I, II, III
6. War2 Smite Weakness; War2 Wall of Steel I, II
7. War0 Resilience of Battle; War2 Wall of Steel III; War2 Inflame I, II
8. War3 Strength; War2 Inflame III; War3 Inflame: Energy Absorption I
9. War3 Inflame: Energy Absorption II; War4 Ameliorating Strike; Ken0 Spiritual Bond
10. Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken2 Ascetic Training: Conditioning I; Ken0 Strike with No Thought
11. Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken2 Tactics I
12. Ken2 Tactics II, III
13. Ken1 Extra Action Boost I, II
14. Ken4 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken1 Extra Action Boost III
15. Ken4 Opportunity Attack; Ken2 Ascetic Training: Conditioning II; Ken5 One with the Blade
16. Ken5 Keen Edge; Ken5 A Good Death: Melee; Ken5 Weapon Master; Ken5 Deadly Strike
17. SD0 Toughness; SD1 Item Defense I; SD1 Durable Defense I, II
18. SD1 Durable Defense III; SD0 Stalwart Defense; SD2 Resilient Defense I, II
19. (Bank 4 AP)
20. Reset All Trees

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

1. Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Strength
2. Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack, Strength
3. Lay Waste, Critical Damage I
4. (none)
5. Devastating Critical
6. Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Twists of Fate (15 fate points)

1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
2. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
3. Boulder Toss (Tier 1 Fury)

Designed to play like a paladin, you start off with two fighter levels and then alternate the next 13 levels between cleric and fighter. This grows your self-healing with you as you level while always keeping a fighter icon in parties so you won't be mistaken for a healer. The final cleric level is pushed back to 20 since it only adds marginal benefit.

Choose the Kensei Weapon Focus applicable to your weapons, and feel free to reset the tree to change your weapon focus as you level. As an example, I use a crafted greatsword (heavy blades) from level 1 to 3, switch to carnifex (axes) from 4 to 7, back to greatswords (Sword of the Thirty & Whirlwind) from 8 to 19, then finally settle on Epic Antique Greataxe for 20+.

The leveling order for enhancements boils down to: Race to DDoor, then race to Ameliorating Strike, then race to Kensei tier 5s.

[EllisDee37]

Casting Spells
Depending on how many build points you have, you'll start with either 8 or 10 wisdom, and you need at least 11 wisdom to cast level 1 spells. (14 wisdom to cast level 4 spells.) When you first get spells at level 3, you'll need to use Owl's Wisdom potions (find the potion vendor in the Market) to allow choosing and casting spells. Keep an eye out for wisdom items so that you don't have to rely on potions, but if your starting wisdom is 8 you won't find a +3 wisdom item until at least level 5. Note that ship buffs often grant +2 wisdom, so that can reduce how much you need from gear. In terms of named items, Sacred Band is an ML7 +4 wisdom ring you can farm up from Red Fens, even if only running casual while you're level 7 or 8.


Self Healing
Here is where this build outperforms a paladin for new players. You get cure light at level 3 and cure moderate at level 7. At level 9 you get the super fun Ameliorating Strike, plus Empower Healing Spell to give cure moderate more kick. Then at level 11 you get cure serious, followed by cure critical at 15. The one thing you won't be lacking in heroic levels is self-healing. Once you get to epic levels you can twist in Rejuvenation Cocoon from Primal Avatar to be your main source of heals.


Combat
This guy has some seriously active combat. Cleave and Great Cleave are your bread and butter; spam both early and often. You also get Stunning Blow, which attacks a mob's fort save. It generally works best on enemy arcane casters and archers, but it can still be effective on melee and divine casters. Get in the habit of using trip as well. We don't take improved trip, but the basic version that everyone gets is pretty effective on this build. It attacks reflex saves, so it won't be great against archers, but it tends to knock down casters and melee pretty well. In epic levels we add in Momentum Swing and Lay Waste, both of which are super fun and synergize perfectly (by design) with the cleaves.

Additionally, the Kensei attacks are pretty fun:
Opportunity Attack is mainly for bosses that you beat down for a while, which means it will likely keep recharging. (10% chance to gain a charge per hit)
A Good Death is kinda meh in epics, but probably rocks in heroics.
Deadly Strike is full of win with greataxes, but not as good with greatswords (Whirlwind) or falchions.

My favorite clickie attack of all on this guy is Ameliorating Strike. It heals you while doing additional dps. What could be better than that?


Combat Buffs
We start off with damage boost (human) and haste boost (kensei), which can be used at the same time, five times each per rest. At level 8 you add Inflame, a third action boost that can be used at the same time as the first two. Then start adding extra action boosts per rest at 12, ending up with 8/rest by 15. (11/rest in epics thanks to Legendary Dreadnought.) The signature kensei boost, Power Surge, is taken as soon as it's available, which unfortunately for this build isn't until level 19. Since you'll generally skip directly from 18 to 20, consider Power Surge an epic thing. In addition to action boosts, you also get Divine Might at 5 and Divine Favor at 15. Note: Once you get power surge, be surge you use it before divine might. The +8 charisma from power surge then makes divine might that much better.


Buffs
At creation you can use your dragonmark feat for expeditious retreat, which is a nice quality of life improvement. At level 3 you get Nightshield, which is a huge advantage compared to this build's paladin equivalent. In addition to Nightshield you get all the standard cleric buffs (protection from evil, resist energy, etc...) capped off by the excellent Deathward and Freedom of Movement at level 15.


Traps
This build has no trapping skills at all. Most traps in DDO have safe spots and/or timing, meaning it is possible to navigate through most of them without taking any damage at all. You'll get better at this as you get more experience, but in the meantime try to find groups with trappers when you want to run trap-heavy quests.


Weapons
The main weapons to look for are Ember Greataxe (ML1), Carnifex (ML4), Sword of the Thirty (ML6) and Whirlwind (ML10). You won't find a better DPS weapon than Carnifex, but Sword of the Thirty and Whirlwind are preferable for this build because they have red slots where you can slot devotion. On my kensei warpriest I use crafted for levels 1 to 3, carnifex for 4 to 7, then at 8 switch to Sword of the Thirty with an ML8 devotion augment. At 10 I switch to Whirlwind with an ML8 devotion augment, then upgrade the augment as I level. I stick with Whirlwind all the way until epics, when I switch over to Epic Antique Greataxe. For undead, constructs, ooze and evil outsider weapons, I typically craft up specialty mauls.


Weaknesses
Your saves aren't great, and reflex saves are your weakest, which is a bit of a bummer but not nearly as bad as it used to be. As a heavy armor wearer your high PRR and MRR help mitigate trap and spell damage, so the low saves in general aren't overly problematic. On the plus side, your cleric buffs grant you immunity to magic missile, command, hold, and level drain. The latter two aren't available until level 15, but still.

[EllisDee37]

See this thread for information on first life and/or leveling gear. I use the gearsets listed in the OP of that thread, including keeping my Cloak of Invisibility equipped until 30. Complete details of my 1-29 gear can be found here, but the <ML10 items in that list can no longer be crafted.


Here's what my Kensei Warpriest on live wears at 30:

Head: ML34 Sheltering 38 Helmet of Accuracy 23 w/Ins. Fortification 79 (Water Breathing)
Eyes: ML34 Wisdom 15 Goggles of True Seeing w/Ins. Seeker 7 (Blindness Immunity)
Neck: ML34 Constitution 15 Necklace of Devotion 159 w/Ins. MRR 18 (Deathblock)
Back: ML34 Charisma 15 Cloak of Dodge Bonus 15 w/Ins. Charisma 7 (Feather Falling)
Wrist: Greensteel Smoke
Hand: ML34 Melee Alacrity 15 Gloves of Deadly 12 w/Ins. Accuracy 11 (Dexterity +6)
Waist: ML34 Doublestrike 17 Belt of Stunning 17 w/Ins. Constitution 7 (Good Luck +2)
Feet: ML34 Seeker 15 Boots of Strength 15 w/Ins. Combat Mastery 6 (Striding 30%)
Ring: Epic Ring of the Stalker (Heavy Fort, Vitality)
Ring: ML34 Wizardry 310 Ring of False Life 57 w/Ins. PRR 18 (Fear Immunity)
Trinket: ML34 Resistance 12 Trinket of Armor Piercing 23 w/Ins. Devotion 79
Body: ML34 Combat Mastery 12 Planeforged Half Plate of Healing Amp 61 w/Parrying 7 (Armored Agility +2)

Weapons

Epic Riftmaker
Epic Antique Greataxe (Evil Bypass) for ETR, and DR breaking at cap

Swaps and Clickies

Planar Gird (x1)
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone
Silver Flame Talisman (if PLIS runs out)
Cloak of Invisibility (Invis clickie, plus swap it in when you don't want Feather Fall)
Cannith Boots of Propulsion
Cursed Blade of Jack Jibbers
Helm of Haggle +22 w/Insightful Haggle +11

Dodge

8 MDB (Planeforged Half Plate)
2 Armored Agility (augment)
3 Stalwart Defensive Mastery (SD enhancements)
---
13 MDB

With a 15% dodge item (cloak) I end up at 13 Dodge due to the MDB cap.


I prefer using cannith crafted for almost all my gear solely because I have a lot of characters, and cannith crafted is quick and easy to make. That way I can quickly gear him up and than start working on someone else. If this were my only character, I would consider this gearset a "starter" endgame set he'd equip to go out and farm up the real endgame gearset. For ideas on what real endgame fighter gear might look like, this thread looks promising: Fighter Gear?

[EllisDee37]

reserved

[RedHost]

I have been kicking around ideas for a similar build to finish out my Fighter past lives. Given the way that Freedom of Movement keeps getting it's usefulness eroded away, and the Dev statement on Lamannia that they were unhappy with it providing total immunity to holds, is there some other major reason for those couple of Cleric levels that I am not seeing? My thinking was that /2paladin for Divine Grace would be very nice, but I haven't gotten far enough to actually testing things out in game yet.

[EllisDee37]

Getting deathward without having to manage a closetfull of flesh guard clickies is a significant quality of life improvement. That's the one reason I don't like playing my ranger as much as my other alts, all of whom are either immune to negative levels or can self-cast dw for long durations.

This build gets 14 minute deathward from 15-19, then 16 minute deathwards for epic levels. This is just lonog enough to be comfortable for me.

Regarding FOM, I'm living in denial. I prefer to think of that dev post (which I saw at the time) as being made in jest.

Oh, you also get cure critical wounds, and the two extra cleric levels help give the cure spells a little more kick.

But, if you have and are not annoyed by using dw clickies, yeah, 2 paladin is solid. Another option is to go helf with pally dilletante for the saves.

[RedHost]

Makes sense, thanks for the response! Looks like a nice setup, especially for players without a lot of resources to provide more self sufficiency while not making great sacrifices in damage.

[Gorget]

Since this build is designed for free-to-play-players I understand your choice, but having access to the favoured soul, would it be better using that instead of cleric since it is casting charisma based? You start with 14 charisma but only 8-10 wisdom which makes casting tier 1 spells possible only if you have +1/+3 Wisdom on gear.

Sry if I'm wrong and the cleric has something that the FvS doesn't. I am still fairly new to this game.

[CoasterHops]

If the last cleric lvl isnt important why not make it Wizard and pick up Quicken? Plus a couple of other not important things.

[EllisDee37]

Since this build is designed for free-to-play-players I understand your choice, but having access to the favoured soul, would it be better using that instead of cleric since it is casting charisma based? You start with 14 charisma but only 8-10 wisdom which makes casting tier 1 spells possible only if you have +1/+3 Wisdom on gear.

Favored Soul is definitely an option, especially since the cleric version doesn't even bother to take radiant servant burst. (Or even spend a single point in the RS tree.)

I chose cleric over FVS because you need 8 FVS levels just to get a single level 4 spell. The cleric version gets three level 4s at 15: cure critical, freedom of movement, and deathward. I wanted all three. There isn't really a fourth level 4 I actually want, though, so the last one take at level 20 is kind of a throw-away. (Divine Power for +2 BAB? meh.)

If the last cleric lvl isnt important why not make it Wizard and pick up Quicken? Plus a couple of other not important things.

I see no harm in that.

I don't think quicken is particularly useful because I don't take burst and during epics the primary healing comes from cocoon, which appears to not be interruptable.

But yeah, if you want a wizard level for whatever reason, go nuts. I stuck with cleric for the extra spell points, +2:00 to the duration of fom, dw and nightshield, +12 seconds to divine favor, and the slight buff to the cure spells.

[Vellrad]

I've had similiar idea of 12ftr/7cle/1monk, but as its aimed to new players, lack of monk is understandable

I'd pick OC at level 21 instead of 24.
At level 26 I'd go with PTWF (doublestrike bonus works with 2 handers).
At level 28 maybe PTHF or +20 positive spellpower.

But anyway, I would also invest in radiant tree to get scroll mastery and use for turns- divine healing, which is great with enough ranks in heal (how else to spend those skillpoints anyway?) and healing amp (they're giving away 30% gloves in eveningstar almost for free ).

[Vellrad]

But yeah, if you want a wizard level for whatever reason, go nuts. I stuck with cleric for the extra spell points,

Actually, 1 level of wizard might give a little more spellpoints than last level of cleric- that's 50 base versus however 8th cleric level gives, minus wisdomX1, plus intx10. With int item to swap before shrines, and after buffs, that is. Also, no UMD for wizard wands is sweet thing too.
And grease, don't forget about grease ;]

[EllisDee37]

Actually, 1 level of wizard might give a little more spellpoints than last level of cleric- that's 50 base versus however 8th cleric level gives, minus wisdomX1, plus intx10. With int item to swap before shrines, and after buffs, that is.

Good point! Note that the base spell points for cleric 8 is only 40.

[EllisDee37]

I'd pick OC at level 21 instead of 24.

It is. Note the explanation in the narrative above the build.

At level 26 I'd go with PTWF (doublestrike bonus works with 2 handers).

This feels exploity to me, in a "that's going to get fixed" kind of way. I tend to steer clear of such things in builds.

But anyway, I would also invest in radiant tree to get scroll mastery and use for turns- divine healing, which is great with enough ranks in heal (how else to spend those skillpoints anyway?) and healing amp (they're giving away 30% gloves in eveningstar almost for free ).

Healing amp is of high priority regardless of taking divine healing.

The self-healing is sufficient without spending anything in the RS tree, and thanks to echoes, scrolls are almost never needed. Divine healing would be more healing, for sure, but I opted to go for the healing effect of smite foe with those points instead. On a test at level 15 it was giving back ~50 hp every 15 seconds, and that's without any amp gear. At 20 I equip PDK gloves, and soon after a pair of convalescent of superior parrying bracers, so I'm thinking the smite foe healing (which is an aoe heal effect) will be pretty effective and probably more fun.

I decided to avoid turn-based effects when it became clear that I'd have to sacrifice dps to get turns to regenerate. Also, the skill points are already be spent on heal for the positive spell power.

[Vellrad]

It is. Note the explanation in the narrative above the build.

Everyone can have +2 tome in middle of heroic levels, even with worst luck, as a 1750 favor reward, so qualifying for OC is not a problem.

This feels exploity to me, in a "that's going to get fixed" kind of way. I tend to steer clear of such things in builds.

I don't think its exploit, its just the fact that ALL lvl26+ feats are somewhat weird.
Anyway, if it ever get changed, there's a free feat swap for it.

Healing amp is of high priority regardless of taking divine healing.

The self-healing is sufficient without spending anything in the RS tree, and thanks to echoes, scrolls are almost never needed. Divine healing would be more healing, for sure, but I opted to go for the healing effect of smite foe with those points instead. On a test at level 15 it was giving back ~50 hp every 15 seconds, and that's without any amp gear. At 20 I equip PDK gloves, and soon after a pair of convalescent of superior parrying bracers, so I'm thinking the smite foe healing (which is an aoe heal effect) will be pretty effective and probably more fun.

I decided to avoid turn-based effects when it became clear that I'd have to sacrifice dps to get turns to regenerate. Also, the skill points are already be spent on heal for the positive spell power.

I never said instead, I mean next to.
Qualifying for divine healing is 5 AP. Taking it 2-6AP. I can understand that it is costly, but I somehow don't like stalwart tree ;p

[EllisDee37]

Everyone can have +2 tome in middle of heroic levels, even with worst luck, as a 1750 favor reward, so qualifying for OC is not a problem.

A new player is quite likely to not own enough content to even get 1750 favor by the time they reach level cap.

I don't think its exploit, its just the fact that ALL lvl26+ feats are somewhat weird.
Anyway, if it ever get changed, there's a free feat swap for it.

I don't mean like an actual exploit; I mean that it feels wrong. I also prefer to not rely on Fred, who is often twitchy. (Waht do you expect from a dirty mind flayer? hehheh.)

I never said instead, I mean next to.
Qualifying for divine healing is 5 AP. Taking it 2-6AP. I can understand that it is costly, but I somehow don't like stalwart tree ;p

Stalwart gives +25 PRR and +3 to all saves. I'd much rather have that than an extra (unnecessary) healing option that isn't fungible.

Besides which, I'd take the points out of warpriest anyway, forgoing the tier 4 "smite foe also heals" ability. As a choice between those two healing options I like smite foe better, particularly for raid situations.

[Vellrad]

Stalwart gives +25 PRR and +3 to all saves. I'd much rather have that than an extra (unnecessary) healing option that isn't fungible.

Isn't it requring movement slowing rage blocking stance? That stance is the sole reason I never look at stalwart tree at all ;p

[EllisDee37]

Isn't it requring movement slowing rage blocking stance? That stance is the sole reason I never look at stalwart tree at all ;p

I did some time trials on the stance movement penalty and was unable to measure a meaningful difference. In my time trial, running for 30 seconds in stance took around 29.5 seconds without stance. I'll live with giving up 1 second per minute in run speed. (I was satisfied by my limited testing in that a) it "felt" the same as normal speed and b) if it turns out to be a bigger penalty than that I don't want to know. Once it "feels" slow I'll reevaluate.)

You can be out of stance, raged, go into stance and get both effects at once.

I want to clarify something that in re-reading I'm not explaining well: The divine healing route is solid, and not a bad choice by any means. For me, with stance as a given, it came down to a choice between either divine healing or smite foe healing. I decided to go with smite foe because it's based on character (not cleric) level and it's an aoe effect, so it should be much more useful in epic raid situations, and somewhat less effective as divine healing everywhere else.

Either choice is solid and defensible. I wouldn't drop stance, though. heh.

[Vellrad]

I did some time trials on the stance movement penalty and was unable to measure a meaningful difference. In my time trial, running for 30 seconds in stance took around 29.5 seconds without stance. I'll live with giving up 1 second per minute in run speed. (I was satisfied by my limited testing in that a) it "felt" the same as normal speed and b) if it turns out to be a bigger penalty than that I don't want to know. Once it "feels" slow I'll reevaluate.)

You can be out of stance, raged, go into stance and get both effects at once.

I want to clarify something that in re-reading I'm not explaining well: The divine healing route is solid, and not a bad choice by any means. For me, with stance as a given, it came down to a choice between either divine healing or smite foe healing. I decided to go with smite foe because it's based on character (not cleric) level and it's an aoe effect, so it should be much more useful in epic raid situations, and somewhat less effective as divine healing everywhere else.

Either choice is solid and defensible. I wouldn't drop stance, though. heh.

1. Wow I didn't know I can rage, and enter stance with both benefits. Its nice to know, but I'd rate it even more cheese as PTFW with 2 handers ;p
2. I'm also not saying there is one true way, its nice to have options to discuss
3. There's so many builds I'd like to play, but don't have time, and I'm afraid I won't be able to play something like this until its nerfed to oblivion

[EllisDee37]

1. Wow I didn't know I can rage, and enter stance with both benefits. Its nice to know, but I'd rate it even more cheese as PTFW with 2 handers ;p

I'd rate is less cheesy, but still cheesy. As such, I keep stance on permanently and just don't get rage.

2. I'm also not saying there is one true way, its nice to have options to discuss

Yep, agreed. After re-reading my posts they sounded like "no you're wrong" when that wasn't the intent. I was just trying to explain why I made the choice the way I did.