Paradigm Shift : how we are looking at Epic Reincarnation

[Silverleafeon]

A shift in such paradigm is when something you thought to be true is actually false... at least for my intended usage. We thought the world was flat, then we learned it is round. Or... we thought the Epic loop had to take you to Lv 1 and at great cost (and there were valid design reasons to do so). When that limitation was lifted a new pattern emerged.

Woot, I'm impressed.

[Yaga_Nub]

I am looking forward to providing everyone with the design details of proposed changes to the Reincarnation system in the coming weeks. Before we start rolling out the fact sheets and dev discussions, I intend to get in front of some of the greater concerns that players (and developers) have raised regarding our prior proposal for Epic Reincarnation.

To get to the point: We have really changed direction from what was previously proposed; and I for one am very pleased that the systems team has taken that direction from 'power from pain' to something more palatable, like 'rewarded for efforts.'

• Epic reincarnation will require level cap and "points" (TBD) in a "Destiny Sphere" (TBD). This will allow a character to reincarnate from Epic cap to level 20, with equivalent heroic XP.
• Doing so will not alter your earned Epic Destinies or Epic Destiny XP, and you can alternatively take a second step and reincarnate your Heroic levels to 1 and benefit from both a Heroic and Epic Past Life [PL] feat.
• As you level Epic Destinies you will gain points toward Epic Reincarnation in the active Destiny Sphere (e.g. Arcane, Divine, Martial, Primal). Furthermore, there is plan to grant retroactive progress for those of you working on your Epic Destinies today.

Again, this is a departure from the previously shared proposal. The goals we set out to accomplish are still being met with these more generous alterations to the Epic Reincarnation design and I hope to share lots of detail changes in the next week (Soon TM).

~E

Nope, still not good enough. I now what a griffon steed as well as rainbows and butterflies to follow me around. Add those and I'm onboard.

[Teh_Troll]

Can you change class and race on an epic TR or do you have to go all the way back to level 1 to do this?

Does an epic TR also reset your favor? Can't say it'd be unreasonable if it did, asking just to clarify.

[Systern]

• As you level Epic Destinies you will gain points toward Epic Reincarnation in the active Destiny Sphere (e.g. Arcane, Divine, Martial, Primal). Furthermore, there is plan to grant retroactive progress for those of you working on your Epic Destinies today.

Just trying to disect this and wrap my head around it. "As you level Epic Destinies"... "EPLs will stack up to 3 times"...

I have a 1st life Arti that is ultimately capped. Level 28. Maximum XP Achieved in every Destiny... How will I earn points on subsequent lives if Destiny XP isn't reset? Is there going to be an actual separate Points mechanic, or is this going to work like qualifying for the level 28 feats?
"Oh, you're at cap... you qualify for x,y, and z PLs.... Pick one and get to cap again to pick another..."
"This subsequent life, you amassed 6.7 million XP playing in Shiradi on your Artificer, that translates to Eleventy-One PL Points for the Primal Sphere... Purchase one of the following: a, b, c. Remaining Points will be lost upon Reincarnation." (Note: This will stink for off-destiny PLs. GRINDING OFF-DESTINIES IS NOT FUN.)


As I side note... I really hope that all these will just need a True Druidic Heart of Wood, and the option we pick when talking to Kruz or the Fatespinner determines the type of TR. I'd really hate to see a "Truer Druidic Heart of Wood" for the level 20 ETR, and a "Truest Druidic Heart of Wood" for the Level 1 ETR (available in-game for 50 Heroic Commendations or 7995 TP in the store!).

[Gljosh]

I will also add to the more fate points OR more twists post. I like the "idea" of sphere specific past Lifes, but Primal has a Ranged, a Melee, and a Summon/Melee destiny. I still think something 2~3 times a similar Heroic Past Life with a little something extra would work fine, if they are 1 time bonuses. Example Fury Sphere, Primal Avatar, Improved Summons-+4 Summon Bonus (stacks with all other bonuses), summons gain 1ppr (per character level), 0.5% dodge (per character level), 5% chance of elemental damage, 3% SP (per character level), and 2% HP (per character level).

[redspecter23]

I'd really hate to see a "Truer Druidic Heart of Wood" for the level 20 ETR, and a "Truest Druidic Heart of Wood" for the Level 1 ETR (available in-game for 50 Heroic Commendations or 7995 TP in the store!).

That is one of my major concerns right now. A potentially amazing system could be ruined by ultra rare and/or expensive widgets needed to undergo the process. The actual TR system is looking great, but this part needs to be addressed before we all get a huge surprise at launch time.

[memloch]

I am also liking the sound of the new system. My questions are:

Will there be a passive and active component to the feats like Heroic?
For completionist do Iconics need to be completed as well?

Thanks for listening

[Kambuk]

This still does not address what I see as one of the big issues with the end game at the moment.

Leveling Epic Destinies that give little to no benefit to you is not fun.

Playing at high level with an Epic Destiny that compliments your abilities is fun, having to swap to a destiny that is not fun to play to progress is not fun.

There needs to be a mechanism to put lost exp from playing with a capped destiny towards another destiny at a reduced rate.

i.e. a twist you can slot from a destiny you have unlocked

The higher level the twist slot you dedicate the more exp you get, use multiple slots to level multiple destinies.

i.e.
T1 Twist slot 10% xp
T2 Twist slot 15% xp
T3 Twist slot 20% xp
T4 Twist slot 25% xp

Lets say you are a new 1st life Sorcerer and want to get to Shiradi you initally take Draconic at level 20 and start leveling it.
By the time you cap it you have 1 twist slot you can use to get 10% xp in one adjacent destiny.
You can now choose to level another destiny or stay in Draconic and at least make some progress.
You then get asked to do an Epic raid for the 1st time, theres a lot of xp to be had but you are expected to contribute. This way you can be in an optimal destiny, contribute to a raid and still get some progress towards other destinies

Someone who has already unlocked a T3 slot and a T2 slot could either get 35% in one destiny, 15% in one and 10% in another or 10% in one and use the other slot for an ability that want.

This is a solution that would not take a UI change, just add the epic destiny abilities to each tree and the code to go with them.

Thoughts?

Kambuk

[EllisDee37]

As far as epic past life feats, I would be content if there were only 1 single past life feat and it would stack unlimited times:

1 fate point


I just like the idea of being able to grind out (over a truly ridiculous amount of time) three tier 4 twists.

[sebastianosmith]

Well, Maj Mal is one heck of a Trekkie.

[kierg10]

Can you change class and race on an epic TR or do you have to go all the way back to level 1 to do this?

Does an epic TR also reset your favor? Can't say it'd be unreasonable if it did, asking just to clarify.

Ya I was gonna ask this too.

I think if you let us go to twenty with an entirely new build that would be very good indeed :P

Would really boost interest for me in the game, because I mostly TR to try out new builds/because I'm getting sick of other builds......and I really prefer epics over heroics (although I would still do heroic TRs from time to time in case there were certain bonuses you could only get from heroic TRs or bonuses from heroic TRs stacked with epic TRs.)

So please consider letting us run from level 20 to 28 with a completely new build/race/alignment......THIS WOULD BE AWESOME!

[Rinnaldo]

This still does not address what I see as one of the big issues with the end game at the moment.

Leveling Epic Destinies that give little to no benefit to you is not fun.
...
T1 Twist slot 10% xp
T2 Twist slot 15% xp
T3 Twist slot 20% xp
T4 Twist slot 25% xp
...Thoughts?

Kambuk

Something along these lines seems like it could work really well.

[Grosbeak07]

Just trying to disect this and wrap my head around it. "As you level Epic Destinies"... "EPLs will stack up to 3 times"...

I have a 1st life Arti that is ultimately capped. Level 28. Maximum XP Achieved in every Destiny... How will I earn points on subsequent lives if Destiny XP isn't reset? Is there going to be an actual separate Points mechanic, or is this going to work like qualifying for the level 28 feats?
"Oh, you're at cap... you qualify for x,y, and z PLs.... Pick one and get to cap again to pick another..."
"This subsequent life, you amassed 6.7 million XP playing in Shiradi on your Artificer, that translates to Eleventy-One PL Points for the Primal Sphere... Purchase one of the following: a, b, c. Remaining Points will be lost upon Reincarnation." (Note: This will stink for off-destiny PLs. GRINDING OFF-DESTINIES IS NOT FUN.)


As I side note... I really hope that all these will just need a True Druidic Heart of Wood, and the option we pick when talking to Kruz or the Fatespinner determines the type of TR. I'd really hate to see a "Truer Druidic Heart of Wood" for the level 20 ETR, and a "Truest Druidic Heart of Wood" for the Level 1 ETR (available in-game for 50 Heroic Commendations or 7995 TP in the store!).

As I understand it, they are planning on granting the epic tr "points" to those who alread have or are working on filling out their destinies, when the new system goes live.

[Vargouille]

To clarify our thinking on earning points in a Sphere: You continue to earn points in the sphere of your active Epic Destiny even if your Epic Destiny is capped on XP. There is a cap on the points you can earn in a Sphere, and you spend these points when performing Epic Reincarnation. Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)

Will there be a passive and active component to the feats like Heroic?

We are leaning towards not doing this in the same way as Heroic Past Lives. We'd rather spend time making the granted Past Lives better. However, we are considering having activated, granted Past Lives, so activated abilities are still a possibility.

For completionist do Iconics need to be completed as well?

Iconic Heroes are essentially a separate system with their own design.

It is unlikely that Epic Completionist would involve Iconic Past Lives.
Iconic Heroes can perform Epic Reincarnations like any other character.
We don't currently intend for the existing Heroic Completionist to be affected by Epic or Iconic Past Lives.

We'll discuss more Iconic Hero details later on.

[Braegan]

Much better proposal so far.

I would like to see more details before I get too excited. Namely the cost of an ETR and it's availibility to do so in game without needing the DDO store to bypass an extreme low in game drop rate.

[Havok.cry]

So far I am liking what I am hearing.

[SirValentine]

• Epic reincarnation will.... allow a character to reincarnate from Epic cap to level 20, with equivalent heroic XP.

Thank you for de-coupling Epic TR and Heroic TR

I guess it's time to go start knocking out the rest of my planned Heroic TRs, since I won't be forced to do extra Heroic TRs rolled in with Epic TRs.

[Scraap]

To clarify our thinking on earning points in a Sphere: You continue to earn points in the sphere of your active Epic Destiny even if your Epic Destiny is capped on XP. There is a cap on the points you can earn in a Sphere, and you spend these points when performing Epic Reincarnation. Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)



We are leaning towards not doing this in the same way as Heroic Past Lives. We'd rather spend time making the granted Past Lives better. However, we are considering having activated, granted Past Lives, so activated abilities are still a possibility.



Iconic Heroes are essentially a separate system with their own design.

It is unlikely that Epic Completionist would involve Iconic Past Lives.
Iconic Heroes can perform Epic Reincarnations like any other character.
We don't currently intend for the existing Heroic Completionist to be affected by Epic or Iconic Past Lives.

We'll discuss more Iconic Hero details later on.

Query: Better as in replacing something so there can be growth in another area, or better as in yet more stacking (and the game being balanced to account for it.)

[Ovrad]

Sphere points act like currency, even though they are normally earned alongside experience.

/cynicalmode on

Soon in the DDOstore: Sphere points bundles!

[Rinnaldo]

...
(Eventually we're going to come up with a real name besides "points in a Sphere".)

....

Karma?

Points earned while you are fulfilling your destiny, so that in a new life you can alter your destiny...