New to DDO: Ranger Trapwarden

[Aolas]

I didn't have access to the test server so unsure if this would work but the idea is to multiply the Ranger Tempest dual wield shield AC using Paladin Bastion and Human Fighting Style enhancements. Traps skills as standard. Has good AC, PRR, Dodge, Saves/Evasion and self healing and should be ideal for a first life starting character, which is what I would like to use it for.

Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good
Classes: Ranger(17), Paladin(2), Rogue(1)

Starting Stats (28 points)

STR 13
DEX 14 (+5 from level ups, +3 from Enhancements)
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 13
* I felt the extra 20 skill points better than +20 HP from 14 CON.
* You could dump WIS but it wouldn't be helpful to a newbie without tomes so...

Skills: Spot, Search, Disarm, Open Lock
* Heal for positive spellpower
* Balance probably essential
* Hide/Move Silent also very handy

Feats
Dodge, Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Mobility
Quicken Spell
Empower Healing
Improved Critical: Slashing

Classes & Levels
Rogue(1), then
Ranger(9), then
Paladin(2), then
Ranger(17)

Human (19 AP)
1 Human Versatility: Defense
3 Don't Count Me Out (x3)
6 Improved Recovery (x3)
6 Fighting Style: +5% Shield AC (x3)
2 Human Adaptability: Dexterity
1 Human Versatility: Saves

Paladin Sacred Defender (16 AP)
1 Holy Bastion
3 Improved Sacred Defense: +5 PRR (x3)
3 Sacred Armour Mastery (x3)
3 Sacred Shield Mastery (x3)
3 Bulwark Aura (x3)
3 Improved Sacred Defense: +1 all saves (x3)

Ranger Tempest (45 AP)
1 Shield of Whirling Steel
3 Improved Reaction (x3)
6 Improved Defence (x3)
6 Improved Parry (x3)
3 Improved Dodge (x3)
3 Elaborate Parry (x3)
3 Evasive Dance (x3)
1 Tempest
1 Graceful Death
1 Deflect Arrows
2 Item Defense (x2)
1 Critical Accuracy
2 Critical Damage
8 Whirling Blades (x4)
4 Dexterity (x2)


I would be interested to know what the top end AC, PRR and Dodge potential this build would have. Appreciate comments and suggestions.

[EllisDee37]

The Tempest TWF defensive bonuses to AC and PRR only work if you're TWF. The human Shield bonuses only work if you're equipping a shield. You can't do both at the same time.

What do you envision holding in your hands? Two weapons or a weapon & shield?

[Aolas]

The Tempest TWF defensive bonuses to AC and PRR only work if you're TWF. The human Shield bonuses only work if you're equipping a shield. You can't do both at the same time.

What do you envision holding in your hands? Two weapons or a weapon & shield?

Two weapons. I was hoping the enhancements wouldn't look at whether a shield was equipped or not and just multiply the shield AC stat. Unless you are a Tempest then your shield AC stat will always be 0 without a shield equipped so it didn't make any mathematical/logical sense to assume a coder would write code to check if a shield was equipped or not; zero multiplied by 30% is still zero.

Well the bonus given was +7 AC and actually it solves the problem of finding 6 AP's for healing spellpower. I can shift the Human Fighting Style AP's into Deepwood Stalker. I can also reclaim 3 AP's from the Paladin tree that are now useless and put them in the Tempest tree for at least +1 more shield AC.

[EllisDee37]

Paladin Sacred Defender (16 AP)
1 Holy Bastion
3 Improved Sacred Defense: +5 PRR (x3)
3 Sacred Armour Mastery (x3)
3 Sacred Shield Mastery (x3)
3 Bulwark Aura (x3)
3 Improved Sacred Defense: +1 all saves (x3)

The enhancements in yellow buff your sacred stance. Sacred stance is the third core ability, which requires 6 paladin levels. Without the stance, the highlighted enhancements literally have no effect.

[PurpleTimb]

You put together a really good attempt for a first build, but unfortunately as EllisDee pointed out there are a couple of flaws in the assumptions you made about how the enhancements interact.

For a different opinion, I recommend you check out the Tempest Trapmonkey. The author seems to know his way around builds... ;-)

EDIT: ED, you need to update your sig.

[PurpleTimb]

Unless you are a Tempest then your shield AC stat will always be 0 without a shield equipped so it didn't make any mathematical/logical sense to assume a coder would write code to check if a shield was equipped or not; zero multiplied by 30% is still zero.

It's coded this way because there are lots of ways to get a shield bonus to your AC that don't involve holding a shield in your off-hand, the first level spell Shield being the most obvious.

[unbongwah]

Hi, welcome to DDO.

First off, unless Hide in Plain Sight is suddenly a lot more awesome than it used to be (I haven't explored the changes to stealth yet), rgr 17 is a bad stopping point. Either rgr 12 (4th core enhancement), 14 (lvl 4 spell slot), 15 (2nd lvl 4 spell + 4th Favored Enemy) or 18 (5th core enhancement) is a better stopping point. Given that you apparently want trap skills + at least Divine Grace, that means rgr 18 is out.

Second, IMHO pursuing AC is a fool's errand in DDO, because you rapidly hit a point of diminishing returns. Dodge, PRR, concealment, and incorporeality are more reliable forms of protection.

Third, as observed, some of the defensive benefits from Sacred Defender only apply if you have Sacred Defense from pal lvl 6. [Unfortunately, one of the "features" of the Enhancement overhaul is sometimes you can take bonuses or abilities before you can actually use them.] Also bear in mind using Defensive Stance will boost your threat generation; that won't matter if you're soloing, but in groups you might pull more aggro than you intend.

Fourth, DEX builds are better DPS than they used to be, but that doesn't make them good; and the defensive benefits are more questionable, because again, AC is a mug's game. If you're not playing a DEX race (i.e., elf or halfling), I don't see much point in going DEX-based.

Finally, I would say you've spread your stat pts too thin; less INT, WIS, and CHA to 12 for more CON & STR would be my call.

It's a little outside my norm, but I would consider rgr 15 / pal 4 / rog 1. The extra pally lvls let you add Divine Might, Sacrifice, Exalted Smite, and 1 or 2 tiers of Vigor of Life (depending on how many APs you spent); while rgr 15 lets you have CSW, FoM, and a 4th FE. Base stats: something like 16 / 14 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 12.

[Aolas]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. It's still a bit difficult to understand why the developers would draw a distinction between shield AC and shield AC with a shield equipped. I mean I could ask for a hamburger or a beefburger and get the same thing, even though they are different meats!

Since we don't have a character planner anymore (relieved that Ron and company are working on it) like a lot of people I expect I'm looking at the .pdf of the new enhancements some kind fellow put together and trying to build stuff that way. Without having a Paladin I was just looking at available enhancements for Paladin(2) and wrongly assumed (again) that the enhancements weren't related to the Tier 3 ability. It defies logic to let people select enhancements they can't use but still...

Yeah I did look at Ranger(17) for Hide In Plain sight so..bleh, what a shame if it's meh. Ranger 15 looks neat, I'll look more closely at the 15/4/1 split. I might also consider Ranger(13) Paladin(6) Rogue(1). The +10% PRR from Sacred Stance works well with the idea of what I was trying to achieve.

Don't Count Me Out is awesome. Anyway, thanks once again for the welcome and replies.

EDIT: Planning to use scimitars or kukris which get dex to hit & damage and high amount of criticals. Raising Dexterity gives +1 to hit/damage/AC/reflex/balance/jump/open locks. Just interested to know why I should raise Strength instead, unless it's for combat DC it seems better to raise Dex.

[Aolas]

Ah now I see it. I have no experience with epic levels/destinies in DDO but having played NWN on the computer at home I was looking at the Tempest Trapmonkey build and saw Overwhelming Critical listed. Well that feat needed 23 Strength in NWN and so I guess there's a Strength requirement in DDO.

Hmm. Well what I am doing is setting up a main on each server so I'm looking at a selection of classes for first ever character starting from scratch with no equipment or anything. My current main on Wayfinder is just a plain Ranger with one level of Rogue and it's working really nicely. Unfortunately I decided to make him Neutral aligned so I was really looking at this build as a refinement of what I have already and looking to try it out on the next server I migrate to.

I should probably try and rescue my failed Elf Palemaster project before then but ..ugg, what a mess.