Shiradi Shuricannon

[dwilly71]

Didn't see it anywhere in this thread, but recently tested a ruby eye of inferno in the offhand to see if the aoe effect proc'd on a thrown weapon.

It does not as far as I could tell. Only tested ruby eye of inferno but assume all the others function similarly.

Dreams of slotting meteoric star and 2 other eyes in luck blade were squashed.

If anyone finds anything contrary please correct.

I made a post about this on the day the augments were released testing the ruby eye of force in a cannith crafted offhand. It didn't work for that one, and I expect it won't work for any of the other unmentioned ruby eyes. Everyone else can save the tp/platinum.

[TeacherSyn]

GREAT NEWS!!! I tested the crit range with an old half-elf pure monk with the combat log on Lamannia without the IC:Thrown feat the crit range should be 18-20 and indeed i crit on 18, 19 and 20.

After acquiring the IC:Thrown feat i critted on a 15 and above even though the crit range of the shuriken in the tooltip only shows 18-20. The inventory tab 'Details' shows the correct crit range of 15-20.

Even the extended crit range from Divine Crusader works now. Crit range 13-20 all in all!

Great news! Thank you Devs!

I did not test it with Halflings though.


The only sad thing is that Sting of the Ninja still does not work with named shuriken. Hope that will be fixed soon too.

Whew. We can now ask the angelic choir to come back to the stage. They've been warming up forever and asking for more money for their stay-over.

HALLELUJAH
HALLELUJAH
HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH
HALLELUJAH!

Even if the Sting doesn't get fixed, this fix is very good news for the 'Cannons all around, and even a few ninjas that throw occasionally.

Wait... the 'Cannon can throw HALFLINGS now? That's gotta be a LOT of damage if they crit. Weapon proficiency has to be high with all that squirming...

[EllisDee37]

Ninja Master and Halfling crit range are not supposed to stack. They are both a competence bonus and both come from enhancements. So if you go pure monk you already get the better bonus from both of them and don't miss anything.

Well that certainly saves me from being annoyed for an entire life, thanks much for the clarification.

This also has nice synergy with my longterm plan, which was to go pure monk for the first two lives and then start the splash version once I unlock 36pt. The racial preferences are now crystal clear: Drow for pure monk, Halfling for a splash build.

[Firewall]

Ok i tested and verified this on Lamannia with a lvl 20 halfling monk.

- The extended crit range of the halfling works too.
- It does not stack with Ninja Master

Time to dust off your Seeker and armor piercing items and for lower level epics probably also the Shimmering Arrowhead and Life Stealing Spelltouched shuriken.

Nice bonus: With U22 the new airship amenity Tactical Training Room (Guild Level 21) gives +6 damage on critical hits before multiplier (stacking with Seeker).

[Blackheartox]

An interesting new Feat on the new Lamannia build:

• NEW: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting (Epic Feat): While Single Weapon Fighting, you vorpal threat range is increased by +1 (instead of scoring Vorpal hits only on a roll of 20, you score them on a roll of 19-20, assuming you confirm the critical hit.)
  
  • Epic Destiny Requirement: Taking this feat requires that you earn maximum experience for a number of destinies in this feat's related spheres. Sphere: Martial Number of Destinies: 1

Looks like this feat can be taken even if you don't have the other SWF feats just like the other perfect fighting style ED feats. So if you simply would remove your offhand weapon you could double the full range vorpal procs of the shuriken as well as trigger other on-vorpal effects with double chance.

This could be an interesting alternative for a pure monk lvl 26 or lvl 28 ED feat assuming this works on shuriken.

Doesnt work with shuriken, swf aplies only to non throwing.
Would be cool if it did tho.
About master thrower working, all i can say yip yip yay.
Doubt il do a pure monk tho, will prolly do halfling with some kind split like ranger monk palie.
Just cant stay away from no fail saves as staying alive is more on priority list then 1 more competence multi

[Firewall]

Ah yes i tested PSWF too but forgot to post the result over the great news that the crit range finally works now.

The no fail save that is most valuable is the reflex save and you can get that by taking the Epic Reflexes feat. The saves on the shuricannon with Bulwark of Defense are already great and with maxed DEX you are safe in all content except maybe the red dragon raid with the autogrant Improved Evasion feat if you roll a one so i think more is not really needed in that regard. The new airship amenities give +3 bonuses to saves and raise resists and elemental absorbtion so with the next update defenses will be even higher.

[Nodoze]

Firewall,

What are your thoughts about maxing out throw rate on this build?

Sounds like you have 24BAB (or 25 when the cap goes to 30), Whirling Wrists, & perma-Haste (via Blinding speed).

Do you think 28 or 30 BAB would make much difference?

Even if UMD was high enough would scrolling Tenser's for the extra Dex & BAB be much of a boon? From a QoL perspective I am not sure I would want to but curious your thoughts (at least before starting fights).

Also curious if you run raids and if so what ED you run raids in (with Shiradi giving Adrenaline to bosses and possibly hurting other players)?

My assumption was to switch to ShadowDancer for raids but curious what you do currently (if you raid). Also curious if you think that Divine Crusader with Celestial Champion's expanded crit range would be a viable alternative.

[Firewall]

It seems like you are at throwing speed cap at about the time you have BAB25 and Whirling Wrists. That means since the Shuricannon has a BAB of 24 right now you still have to take Blinding speed or scroll Tenser's to be at cap. So when the level is raised to 30 you can possibly drop Blinding speed if you don't need the +1 reflex save, +1 dodge and the running speed. I don't think you will ever be able to drop Whirling Wrists too since the speed increase of 5 points of BAB will never substitute that bonus so that is given. So if we assume we are at speed cap i don't think BAB 30 will make a difference but we have to see that when we are there (BAB 28 does not make a difference to BAB 25 since the speed increase comes every 5 points).

I have tested the UMD and scrolling Tenser's variant on Lamannia. With my current setup there seems to be no throwing speed increase which emphasizes that with BAB 24, Whirling Wrists and Blinding Speed you are at a cap. In my Warcannon thread i calculated that a difference in 3 DEX in endgame is less that 2% overall DPS increase with a build where you use 10k stars half of the time. That would make 4 points of DEX a bit better than 2% which is a nice bonus but i personally will not waste time crafting, switching items around and waiting for the scroll to be cast for such a small and short-time bonus in DPS. Others may feel different about that.

I do run raids. Which ED you run in you can choose on a raid to raid basis. Since i'm still in the last two levels of finishing my epic completionist i have not monitored the double rainbow procs lately but they change with every update anyway. For me and my playstyle shiradi is still the best epic destiny to run in since all the DPS and CC bonuses work at full range in contrast to the situational Sneak Attack damage you get in Shadowdancer and i would not want to miss Nerve Venom. If there still is an issue with adrenaline you can always switch off Double Rainbow in Endboss fights (you will still have the damage procs from the core enhancements) or switch to another damage stance like Stay Frosty or Stay Good.

Other Epic Destinies (e.g. Shadowdancer) can certainly be viable too depending on your playstyle but most of them i would only run in when i need Karma in the respective trees. Divine Crusader's expanded crit range is nice but since you cannot choose DEX bonuses in that ED and you miss the damage procs and CC from shiradi i don't think it is a better choice DPS wise. If you run in Shadowdancer there is more emphasis on having Armor Piercing and Deception items.

[Nodoze]

It seems like you are at throwing speed cap at about the time you have BAB25 and Whirling Wrists. That means since the Shuricannon has a BAB of 24 right now you still have to take Blinding speed or scroll Tenser's to be at cap. So ... you can always switch off Double Rainbow in Endboss fights (you will still have the damage procs from the core enhancements) or switch to another damage stance like Stay Frosty or Stay Good. ...

+1 Thanks for the very good & detailed responses. I should have thought about switching stances on the boss fights but still benefiting on the way to the boss...

[Tilomere]

What are your thoughts about maxing out throw rate on this build?

Maybe try Endless Fusilade + 10k stars + power of forge + haste boost all at the same time? If my guess is right, Endless Fusilade might eliminate "reload time" of 0.5 seconds and leave you with only throwing time of 0.2 sec?

[Firewall]

Maybe try Endless Fusilade + 10k stars + power of forge + haste boost all at the same time? If my guess is right, Endless Fusilade might eliminate "reload time" of 0.5 seconds and leave you with only throwing time of 0.2 sec?

Since he was asking specifically about this build and this build is a drow pure monk it is hardly possible to try this. Power of the Forge and 10k stars do not improve the speed of the attack animation just damage and number of attacks per animation and Endless Fusilade is only meant to be working with crossbows (as its description says) so i don't think it works with thrown weapons. And even if it does that would surely not be working as intended. A Bladeforged Monk with at least 5 levels of artificer is so far removed from this build that i think this is better discussed in another thread anyway.

[kgoodson3]

Has anyone been able to test if Kensai "Keen Edge" is granting the bonus to shuriken as well on Lammania?

[Firewall]

Has anyone been able to test if Kensai "Keen Edge" is granting the bonus to shuriken as well on Lammania?

I haven't tested it and at the moment noone can because Lamannia is down since last week but i think the crit range increase will most certainly function now even with Keen Edge. As far as the info went the problem was not with the enhancements (since for example Ninja Master worked fine with shortswords and Kamas) but with the throwing weapons and since the halfling tree, the ninja spy tree and even the new epic destiny crit enhancement work with them now i'm sure the same will be true for the Kensai tree and the Assassin tree (Tier 5 'Knife Specialization' for throwing daggers).

[EllisDee37]

Woot! Just found an addy returner in the ah for 40k. (Deal of the century. heh.)

Still going crazy with my sireth build atm, farming up a couple epic past lives, but once that's done it's all thrower all the time.

I now have snowstar, two regular (no metal) returners, plus a flametouched iron, cold iron, silver, and now adamantine.

[Firewall]

Congrats! A good deal! ^^ Farming epic past lifes can take a while. I just got my epic completionist and i'm really glad i finished that now. Have fun!

[willox2112]

Has anyone been able to test if Kensai "Keen Edge" is granting the bonus to shuriken as well on Lammania?

I have a throwing build in Lammania with 8 fighter levels. Keen Edge does work with Shuriken now. I was critting on an 11 with Snowstar, IC: thrown, and Keen Edge. I had the same result if I substituted Keen Edge for Master Thrower, these two do not stack.

What does stack is Keen Edge (and similar enhancements) with Sniper Shot. You can crit on a 9 with this combo.

[kgoodson3]

Thank you for the responses. I don't suppose it will be optimal, but the info will help me test different builds.

[Luskacik]

hmm sucks a bit that throwing speed has an actual cap, or severe diminishing returns, we like to max stuff :-D so just that I'm clear, once you have 25 BAB and WW there's really nowhere higher to go? so haste boost is totally useless, and tenser only really gives you +4 dex if you haste blinding speed or wind stance and WW and 25 BAB? that makes some things easier I guess...

[Firewall]

Yes it looks like that. I haven't done the tests myself yet. I still like it that the Shuricannon will still get some free improvements in the future. Sting of the Ninja will hopefully be fixed again soon which will bring back some more DPS especially with the newly enhanced crit range and with the level cap raised to 30 it will reach BAB 25. When that happens we will see if BAB 30 with Tenser's can still raise the attack speed some more or if what we see now really is the cap.

[Luskacik]

Also I have seen you debate this in another thread, what do you think of double rainbow? Jakeelala dismisses it as not worth the 6 ED points because it is unpredictable, but I feel it does a good deal of DPS even though you can't quantify it, and not just the instakills, it procs AOEs etc. I have estimated it at ~ 20 proc damage per hit in the past though that is obviously a wild guess, instakills are worth more on EEs etc. and it has changed so many times... I don't think pin is so great for the 2 points, so I'm only losing 1 dex from the maximum possible in the shiradi tree when I have double rainbow, and I do believe it is well worth it, but I don't really have data, so I was interested what is your opinion, if you just go for stay frosty too or stick with double rainbow?