Pale Trapper for new players (Human 18/2 Wizard/Rogue)

**Caprice** · 04-08-2015, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Postumus

If building a caster to use heavy armor, and these days why wouldn't you, I find going 19/1 Wiz/Art is a better way to go since I won't be able to use evasion anyway. This split gives you higher DCs, more SPs, and another pet you can use situationally to open things if you don't want to put enhancement points into the skeletal knight.

Wizard level does not affect spell DCs directly. DCs are based on the level of the spell itself, or when you are using Heighten the DC is based on the level of the highest spell you can cast. Wizard 18 or 19 won't make a difference since the maximum level of spells both can cast is level 9 spells. OTOH Spell Penetration is based on class levels so you do get an extra point of that for adding another Wizard level, and if you do take the skellie pet it gets another level too.

Fighter 1 saves you a feat because it grants Heavy Armor Proficiency innately, and adds a free bonus Feat - albeit not a particularly useful one since it is from the "Martial" list. Dodge seems to be the most useful choice to me.

Another choice would be Wizard 18/Artificer 1/Cleric 1. Cleric also grants Heavy Armor Proficiency, and it also unlocks the Heal skill so you can take more ranks. More Negative spellpower is always nice to have. However that's really only an issue for a 32+ point build with tomes as otherwise you won't have enough skill points to invest in it anyway.

For hilarity you could go Wizard 18 / Artificer 1 / Barbarian 1. +10% movement speed is nice on any build. However you do need to spend a feat on Heavy Armor, like the 19/1 version.

**Caprice** · 04-08-2015, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by EllisDee37

Are you talking about at the very start, when you first go north?

I ask because I farmed Invaders! for over a dozen* runs on my pale masters (pale trapper and epic challenge farmer) trying to pull Tharkuul's Bane for my swashbuckler life, but no joy. In all dozen runs I was able to kill pretty much all the beholders with the "ray and run" tactic, and would be happy to post a sample video, especially if it's the first encounter. (I'll always grab another chance at Tharkuul's Bane.) I ran it on elite in hopes for better drop rates, but of course it's still easier for an epic character with destinies to do elite than a level 11 to do normal.

No, not at the very start. It's at the far end of one side, I think the same side as the end fight but past it. If you pass the entrance to the end fight you go up a little rise that has a few stealthed render/hound mobs at the top, then it drops down into the triple cul-de-sac with the linked beholders.

**Postumus** · 04-08-2015, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Caprice

Wizard level does not affect spell DCs directly. DCs are based on the level of the spell itself, or when you are using Heighten the DC is based on the level of the highest spell you can cast. Wizard 18 or 19 won't make a difference since the maximum level of spells both can cast is level 9 spells. OTOH Spell Penetration is based on class levels so you do get an extra point of that for adding another Wizard level, and if you do take the skellie pet it gets another level too.

Fighter 1 saves you a feat because it grants Heavy Armor Proficiency innately, and adds a free bonus Feat - albeit not a particularly useful one since it is from the "Martial" list. Dodge seems to be the most useful choice to me.

Another choice would be Wizard 18/Artificer 1/Cleric 1. Cleric also grants Heavy Armor Proficiency, and it also unlocks the Heal skill so you can take more ranks. More Negative spellpower is always nice to have. However that's really only an issue for a 32+ point build with tomes as otherwise you won't have enough skill points to invest in it anyway.

For hilarity you could go Wizard 18 / Artificer 1 / Barbarian 1. +10% movement speed is nice on any build. However you do need to spend a feat on Heavy Armor, like the 19/1 version.

Right right. I had a brain fart. I meant wiz level will affect damage of spells and SLAs based on class level. You also get one more 9th level spell for 19 wiz and more SPs for 19 wiz/ 1 art.

There are other split combos as you point out that are probably better than 18/2 wiz/rog now.

**EllisDee37** · 04-08-2015, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Caprice

No, not at the very start. It's at the far end of one side, I think the same side as the end fight but past it. If you pass the entrance to the end fight you go up a little rise that has a few stealthed render/hound mobs at the top, then it drops down into the triple cul-de-sac with the linked beholders.

Here's a sample video of me doing this section on my epic challenge farmer (pure pale master) on elite using the "ray and run" technique. I clear out those four beholders, then go one more room to demonstrate dealing with a beholder who refuses to leave his little cubbyhole.

It goes without saying that a level 21 with destinies will have an easier time on elite than a level 11 running on normal, but the concept is the same for both:

**EllisDee37** · 04-29-2015, 10:45 AM

Got a PM from a brand new player who doesn't have rights to post to this forum due to free player restrictions, so reproducing the questions by proxy:

I noticed that the build has a lot of issues with spell points running out at lower levels, especially in longer dungeons. Am I possibly doing something wrong or this is to be expected in the beginning?

As a general rule, don't use metamagics until they're fully improved, and even then I wouldn't always use them. That means for non-SLAs, in the early levels only use Empower, and as a rule of thumb I'd say only use them on AOE spells (eg: Scorch) and not on rays (eg: Scorching Ray).

Limiting your spells to the Chill Touch SLA (with both maximize and empower) and niac's cold ray (with no metamagics) in the very early levels can get you through most content.

When choosing the first wizard level (Collective character level 2 then) I have 4 AP banked to spend on enhancements. Your guide asks to allocate those points on the following: Chill Touch (AM), Energy of the Scholar I (AM), Spell Critical (AM), Dark Reaping (PM). However, 4 action points is not enough to get all of those enhancements. Again, is this is to be expected or am I doing something wrong?

By the end of level 2 you will have 8 AP total, so the guide lists 8 AP to be taken on level 2. (Having spent 0 AP on level 1.)

When and what spells/SLAs should I combine with metamagic feats? Using spells with empower and such seems to drain the spell point pool insanely fast. Wanting to use the metamagic feats with SLAs, however, requires to activate them, then cast Chill Touch (For example), then deactivate it to cast other spells. Is this something which is completely usual and I should just get used to activate/deactive my metamagic feats on the run or is there a simpler way of doing all this?

Metamagics are free when applied to SLAs, so apply all metamagics you can to all SLAs. After dragging an SLA or spell to a hotbar, if you right-click it you get a list of metamagics that you have and can be applied. I generally always set my metamagics this way. Be sure to go back and check them again when you take a new metamagic, as they don't show up until you have them.

When gaining the first Wizard level your guide suggests taking the following spells: Expeditious Retreat, Niac's Cold Ray, Burning Hands, Nightshield, Charm Person. However, when I leveled I got to choose 7 spells instead of 5. Are you suggesting those spells to be the ones prepared most of the time or is there an error in the amount of spells gained?

While leveling, you're being asked to inscribe spells, as opposed to slotting them for actual use. I recommend inscribing all spells each time you unlock a new spell level by purchasing scrolls. Some scrolls can't be purchased, so try to choose unpurchasable scrolls during leveling, then inscribe the rest. A list of unpurchasable scrolls can be found here.

The spells listed in the build in the OP are the spells you actually slot, and are only rough guidelines. You will need to tailor those both to suit your playstyle, as well as for different quests. For example, some quests are populated mostly by skeletons (Delera's) which are natively immune to cold spells. So you could probably switch out any cold spells for something more useful when running those quests.

Whereas I really enjoy the build so far it seems that the damage output is very minimal in the lower levels. I understand that the build is mostly considered to be a CC build not a nuking one but the numbers I see make me question if Im doing something wrong or offensive spellcasters are developing reaaaaaally slowly as they usually are

?

The first 2-3 levels are by far the weakest levels for this build, without a doubt. So much so that it's not a bad idea to just pick up a greatsword and use Master's Touch to swing away. If you do not have Master's Touch, scrolls can be purchased for inscribing in the Portable Hole. Ask around in general chat in the market to see if a kind soul would get a scroll for you to inscribe.

I personally don't generally go the Master's Touch route, instead preferring to use Niac's Cold Ray for most of my early level killing. The Chill Touch SLA (with metamagics) should also help the cause.

What is the reasoning behind taking the Repair skill in the beginning as a Human?

Not much. You have to spend those points on something, and at least Repair gives you (mostly useless) repair spellpower. Same logic for Perform giving sonic spellpower.

One tip for getting around spell point issues is to use hirelings with Divine Vitality. You don't need to bring them throughout the quest with you, but instead can go back to the start of the quest, summon them, cast all their DVs, then dismiss them. They are on separate timers, so if you do this with multiple different hirelings (all with DV) one after the other you can get back lots of spell points. This is tedious, so I wouldn't rely on it, but it can help in super long quests. Note that some quests have a point of no return, so the only way to get back to the start is to cast DDoor. That makes DDoor a great spell to have.

**zarathius** · 07-23-2015, 12:05 PM

does anyone use the new Harper enhancements with this build?

**Endarire** · 08-05-2015, 09:37 PM

1: How does STR affect this build? Why not put the points into WIS instead for the boosting of your save of Will?

2: How do the Harper enhancements affect this build?

3: How does being Warforged affect this build?

**Jiirix** · 08-11-2015, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by Endarire

1: How does STR affect this build? Why not put the points into WIS instead for the boosting of your save of Will?

2: How do the Harper enhancements affect this build?

3: How does being Warforged affect this build?

1. WIS is allready the strong save for a wizzard. There are far mor mobs that use STR-damage than WIS-damage and getting to 0 STR will leave you unable to cast. With some STR at start you can melee the first levels using masters touch and buffs mainly.

2. You can get a bit more INT out of it. I have spend 12 points in harper ATM to get 2 INT, 6 Spellpower (3 form VA, 3 from the enhancement bonus), 20 SP and some HP.

3.Undead warforged gain little and loose much (a feat, skillpoints, robes). You loose your warforged bonuses when in undead form, you can't repair yourself. Warforged has better synergies with Archmage or Sorc.

**EllisDee37** · 08-11-2015, 12:46 PM

Note that regarding Will saves, undead are natively immune to all Enchantments. There are few non-Enchantment Will saves in the game, so Will saves are largely irrelevant to a pale master.

**Endarire** · 08-14-2015, 06:16 PM

How do tomes affect stat point distribution? I presently have a Supreme +7 Tome and will soon TR into this build or one similar.

And thankee, Ellis, for making your spiffy editor and this build!

**SirValentine** · 08-14-2015, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Endarire

How do tomes affect stat point distribution?

Shouldn't affect this build. You'll still want to max Int, and there isn't any feats taken that need specific values of some other stat.

**Endarire** · 08-14-2015, 10:21 PM

What gear do you especially recommend for this build?

**Sabreheim** · 08-17-2015, 12:56 PM

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.25.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 288
Spell Points: 1485 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 10

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 28)           (Level 28)
Strength             10                 10                   10
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         16                 16                   16
Intelligence         18                 27                   32
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma              8                  8                    8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 28)          (Level 28)
Balance               3                  3                   11
Bluff                -1                 -1                    7
Concentration         5                 26                   34
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                    7
Disable Device        8                 34                   45
Haggle                3                  3                   11
Heal                  1                  6                   14
Hide                 -1                 -1                    7
Intimidate           -1                 -1                    7
Jump                  4                  4                   12
Listen               -1                 -1                    7
Move Silently        -1                 -1                    7
Open Lock             3                  4                   12
Perform              n/a               n/a                    n/a
Repair                8                 15                   23
Search                8                 34                   42
Spellcraft            6                 34                   42
Spot                  3                 22                   30
Swim                  2                  2                   10
Tumble                1                  1                    9
Use Magic Device      3                  3                   11

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Disable Device


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy I: Chill Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Energy of the Scholar (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Empowering (Rank 3)


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 2)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy II: Command Undead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Zombie (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 2)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Skeletal Knight (Rank 3)


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy III: Halt Undead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Vampire (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Trapmaking
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Maximizing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Maximizing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Improved Maximizing (Rank 3)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Primary Spell Focus: Necromancy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy II (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy III (Rank 1)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Corpsecrafter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Efficient Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Efficient Heightening (Rank 2)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Necromancy IV: Enervation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Wraith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Negative Energy IV (Rank 1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force II (Rank 1)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 3)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Necromantic Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Improved Shrouding (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Archmage (Wiz) - Spell Critical: Elemental and Force IV (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Saves Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Lich (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Penetration


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Intelligence


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Divine Sphere: Epic Spell Power: Negative


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Intelligence


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Arcane Sphere: Hellball

**rlarge** · 09-22-2015, 03:54 PM

help please! what am I doing wrong here? This build has enhancements in pale master and archmage, along with human. I got the human but nowhere do I see pale master or archmage. I have available only these: human, eldritch knight, harper agent, thief acrobat, mechanic, and assassin. I must be doing somethin wrong or this is not a current build. Help please.

**slarden** · 09-22-2015, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by rlarge

help please! what am I doing wrong here? This build has enhancements in pale master and archmage, along with human. I got the human but nowhere do I see pale master or archmage. I have available only these: human, eldritch knight, harper agent, thief acrobat, mechanic, and assassin. I must be doing somethin wrong or this is not a current build. Help please.

Try scrolling to the right until you get to the end. You can also go the word mechanic and change it to another tree you need.

**rlarge** · 09-22-2015, 10:00 PM

wow. I had moved Ileft 2 times. I thought it was the end. sometimes I wonder if I am smart enough for this game. :{

**EllisDee37** · 09-22-2015, 10:59 PM

No worries. Lots of people were confused with that exact same question right after the enhancement pass, which gave us the "trees" interface.

Cool tip with trees is that you can drag them around to put the trees in whatever order you like, even if you've spent points in them. Grab a tree on the icon in the bottom left of that tree pane to drag it, drop it on the same icon for a different slot.

**rlarge** · 09-24-2015, 03:14 PM

another question if someone has time. I have my wizard to level 5, rog 1 wiz 4. I have been looking at the spells etc relative to self healing. If I am understanding that ability and the spell list etc then I will not have any self healing other than lesser death aura until level 7, ie. rog 1,wiz 6. Is this correct? Or are there other things that will help that I am missing? This is my first wizard/pale master so am not sure of anything. thx in advance for any and all help or flames( that point out the error of my ways).

**SirValentine** · 09-24-2015, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by rlarge

another question if someone has time. I have my wizard to level 5, rog 1 wiz 4. I have been looking at the spells etc relative to self healing. If I am understanding that ability and the spell list etc then I will not have any self healing other than lesser death aura until level 7, ie. rog 1,wiz 6. Is this correct? Or are there other things that will help that I am missing? This is my first wizard/pale master so am not sure of anything. thx in advance for any and all help or flames( that point out the error of my ways).

At very low levels, it might be easier just to stay out of undead form, and drink Cure potions. You don't get Vampire form until 6 Wizard levels anyway. I'm not much of a fan of Zombie form, personally. (-2 Int!)

**rlarge** · 09-24-2015, 07:27 PM

thanks. I will do that. at least this time I had it figured correctly. not the normal outcome. lol

Thread: Pale Trapper for new players (Human 18/2 Wizard/Rogue)

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A version with Skeletal Knight and able to make own tools

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