Pale Trapper for new players (Human 18/2 Wizard/Rogue)

[EllisDee37]

Acrobat staff build is a good thought, but I tend to agree that SWF with orbs would probably be better.

And yeah, turning this into a melee build (of any kind) would definitely require changing the feats around. At very least you'd want to drop the spell penetration feats to fit in some combat feats.

[unbongwah]

I think it largely depends on how many feats, APs, and stat pts you're willing to sacrifice for some melee DPS. I consider 2H weapons to provide the most bang-for-the-buck with only a couple of feats, namely Power Atk or Precision + Imp Crit. Whereas I consider SWF to be a 4- or 5-feat minimum investment to really reap the benefits: SWF x3, Power Atk or Precision, and possibly Improved Crit. If a staff build, 11 APs into Acrobat gets you +15% atk speed and Quick Strike; that is a fairly substantial increase in DPS for a relatively modest investment, particularly if you have some of the better named staves.

Wiz 15 / rog 5 is an option to pick up Staff Spec; but since that costs 32 APs and loses lvl 9 spells, it's a much bigger investment. Might be a fun option for, say, a WF battlemage to grind out your wiz PLs, though.

ETA: I'm presuming we're talking about someone who has access to Harper; this option is a lot less attractive without Know the Angles and Strategic Combat, ofc.

[richieelias27]

I think it largely depends on how many feats, APs, and stat pts you're willing to sacrifice for some melee DPS. I consider 2H weapons to provide the most bang-for-the-buck with only a couple of feats, namely Power Atk or Precision + Imp Crit. Whereas I consider SWF to be a 4- or 5-feat minimum investment to really reap the benefits: SWF x3, Power Atk or Precision, and possibly Improved Crit. If a staff build, 11 APs into Acrobat gets you +15% atk speed and Quick Strike; that is a fairly substantial increase in DPS for a relatively modest investment, particularly if you have some of the better named staves.

Wiz 15 / rog 5 is an option to pick up Staff Spec; but since that costs 32 APs and loses lvl 9 spells, it's a much bigger investment. Might be a fun option for, say, a WF battlemage to grind out your wiz PLs, though.

ETA: I'm presuming we're talking about someone who has access to Harper; this option is a lot less attractive without Know the Angles and Strategic Combat, ofc.

In my opinion, if you don't have harper it isnt worth it to try a melee wizard. With harper tree and full wizard feats (except spell pen) my melee dps actually competes with my trash-killer spell dps. Without it you wont be doing much without a heavy STR or DEX investment.

[cru121]

I have now my wizard life behind me (good riddance) but perhaps it could be worth mentioning somewhere that Inflict Serious Wounds potions are available for sale:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Inflict_Serious_Wounds

[Caprice]

Edit: Nvm. Apparently this is well known and has been the case for quite a while.

[Sanjinn]

The simplest method for leveling is to get a level-appropriate tower shield (but don't equip it), then cast aura & displacement and run around gathering up a dozen or so mobs, cast firewall or ice storm, equip the tower shield, then stand there in the middle of the aoe and shield block until everything is dead. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Displacement halves the incoming damage, aura keeps you healed, the aoe does the killing. Do not do any casting with a shield in your hand, do not ever cast negative energy burst except in the most dire circumstance, and aura should be doing very little of the damage against mobs.

The slightly more expensive but safer approach is to combine a lingering CC spell with this technique. I like to combine webs with firewall, dancing ball with ice storm. Note that firewall does not burn away webs, so cast them both in the same spot. Typically right where you're standing after gathering a bunch of mobs, then quickly switch to the shield and block.

Still more expensive but much faster is to add acid rain on top of whichever aoe (firewall or ice storm) you're using.

For 1 or 2 mobs I use frost lance and scorching ray. Turn maximize on for these; maximize only costs me 12 sp but even without an efficient trinket it'll still only cost you 16. Close enough. (Try to find a crafter to make you an efficient maximize II shard if you can't make one yourself.)

Tactics change at higher level; this is the basic idea from 8 to around 17, though. For levels 2-7, for the most part I just use un-meta'd frost lance and scorching ray on everything. Though with this build I might turn on empower for those levels. (Again with an efficient trinket to bring it down from 9 to 7 sp.)

First off thanks for the effort you put into your builds.

Now on to my noob questions. I have just returned to the game after a two year break. I got a warrior to 13 and a cleric to 11 back when the cap was 15 I think...

I get what you are doing strata wise but I am not familiar with the spells and their full names. What aura are you meaning? Displacement I am familiar with from pnp days. Frost lance and scorching ray for the lower levels, what's the rotation after 17? I plan to solo or duo with my wife for the most part, she would be on a tank or melee of some sort. We would use hirelings for heals and whatever else. She and I don't know anyone in the game any more (we play on Thelanis) and with my patience for idiots at -100 (that and starting to get old, not quite to the get off my lawn age but soon...) we just duo.

What spells should I buy for my spell book? What ones should I keep memorized all the time? I would like to farm gear for her level 8 Fighter and my Druid or my Cleric to help make leveling easier for us as a duo. So what spell rotations will I want to use solo or with a hirelings or two? My gear will suck pretty bad as well. A magi staff, a wizardy item, a power augment, thinking of some lite armor with a augment to reduce the spell fail chance so I can take advantage of the new armor stuff, prr and mrr, yes? Some resist type gear if I can get it.

Thanks for any and all information and answers to my questions.

[EllisDee37]

In terms of spell rotation in the higher level heroics...

For single targets, I'll usually use finger of death. If they can't be insta-killed, I'll use necrotic ray, polar ray and chain lightning. (Necrotic ray is the best single-target nuker.) Note that chain lightning is multiple target.

For groups, my first thought in heroics is generally circle of death. If that doesn't thin the group down enough I'll switch to cc+dps with dancing ball and ice storm, or web and firewall. For either of those, adding an acid rain on top of it is always nice.

For gear, the cannith challenge gear is as good as it gets for spell power and lore in heroic levels. Darkstorm helm is also nice.

You might take a look at my epic challenge farmer thread. That's a plain vanilla pure pale master, and has some tips (and video) for playing it. It also details a nice "starter" epic gearset that's easy to acquire.

I would recommend heading off to the portable hole and inscribing every purchasable scroll you don't already have in your spellbook. Then check the auction house for the ones you're still missing.

[Sanjinn]

In terms of spell rotation in the higher level heroics...

For single targets, I'll usually use finger of death. If they can't be insta-killed, I'll use necrotic ray, polar ray and chain lightning. (Necrotic ray is the best single-target nuker.) Note that chain lightning is multiple target.

For groups, my first thought in heroics is generally circle of death. If that doesn't thin the group down enough I'll switch to cc+dps with dancing ball and ice storm, or web and firewall. For either of those, adding an acid rain on top of it is always nice.

For gear, the cannith challenge gear is as good as it gets for spell power and lore in heroic levels. Darkstorm helm is also nice.

You might take a look at my epic challenge farmer thread. That's a plain vanilla pure pale master, and has some tips (and video) for playing it. It also details a nice "starter" epic gearset that's easy to acquire.

I would recommend heading off to the portable hole and inscribing every purchasable scroll you don't already have in your spellbook. Then check the auction house for the ones you're still missing.

Woah! That was a quick reply, thank you!

I have made some notes on the spells you mentioned above. The one spell/ability I am still curious about is the "aura" you mention in your blocking and AoE strategy. I will also look into that gear set on your other build as well, thank you. I am also starting to watch your videos for those challenges. Where is the best place to go to learn about the crafting? I am slowing building up storage of some crafting stuff that drops and would love to start working on leveling so I can enhance my wife's and my own gear.

I had no idea that inn, the portable hole, even existed. Pretty cool. Thanks for the heads up on it.

[EllisDee37]

The one spell/ability I am still curious about is the "aura" you mention in your blocking and AoE strategy.

That's the Death Aura spell, an unpurchasable level 4 wizard spell. While it's running, it heals you every 2 seconds while in undead form. With extend, figure it lasts around 2-3 minutes at higher levels, and heals for between 50-100 every 2 seconds.

The only downside is that level 4 spells are super good, so it'll be tough decided which ones to take. The good ones:

Dimension Door
Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst (a large burst heal while in undead form)
Firewall
Ice Storm
Acid Rain
Fire Shield

You only get five level 4 spells at any one time, so it's a little painful winnowing down the list. First to go is fire shield, because that can be scrolled. None of the rest in the above list can be scrolled. Well, they can, but you can't buy scrolls for them from any vendor so you'll have to pay a fortune on the auction house and still wouldn't have an endless supply. If you're a pale master, you really really want both death aura and negative energy burst for your self-healing. I typically end up with:

Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst
Dimension Door (I'm addicted!)
Acid Rain
Firewall or Ice Storm (switching to the more appropriate one based on quest)

[Sanjinn]

That's the Death Aura spell, an unpurchasable level 4 wizard spell. While it's running, it heals you every 2 seconds while in undead form. With extend, figure it lasts around 2-3 minutes at higher levels, and heals for between 50-100 every 2 seconds.

The only downside is that level 4 spells are super good, so it'll be tough decided which ones to take. The good ones:

Dimension Door
Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst (a large burst heal while in undead form)
Firewall
Ice Storm
Acid Rain
Fire Shield

You only get five level 4 spells at any one time, so it's a little painful winnowing down the list. First to go is fire shield, because that can be scrolled. None of the rest in the above list can be scrolled. Well, they can, but you can't buy scrolls for them from any vendor so you'll have to pay a fortune on the auction house and still wouldn't have an endless supply. If you're a pale master, you really really want both death aura and negative energy burst for your self-healing. I typically end up with:

Death Aura
Negative Energy Burst
Dimension Door (I'm addicted!)
Acid Rain
Firewall or Ice Storm (switching to the more appropriate one based on quest)

Thank you for the reply and the answer to my aura question. Also thanks for sharing the spell information and giving me ideas on what spells are the most useful.

Thanks again.

[bonscott87]

I've run several variations of the Pale Trapper over the years and it's by far my favorite class to run. Right now running one "for fun" duo'ing with my wife, currently level 10 (8 wiz/2 rog). The for fun part is that I'm doing it as a Dwarf and I gotta say, that extra durability is pretty nice. Up until a couple levels ago I actually had more HP then her Pally. LOL

But I just got the Harper enhancement tree so I'm playing around with the base Harper build. I find myself melee a lot in my firewall and aura and found going EK or Acrobat really doesn't do it for me.

So I've spent the minimum 12 in the Harper tree to get both INT to attack and damage. And some pretty nice other things in there too like lots of extra spell points. Took the first EK one for the Eldrich Strike (I really love that thing). Minimum of 11 in AM to get Chain Missiles and the rest in Pale Master and will pretty much spend most of the rest of the points I think in PM with a few others scattered here and there.

So at level 10 I have Vampire form (love Vampire form, don't let anyone tell you otherwise ), Magic Missile and Chain Missile SLA's, and a +27 to attack and +17 to dmg with a staff. Currently have a Thaum. staff for all the bonus' but as I level up I have several named staff's I collected from another toon that was an Acrobat/Fighter. Eventually will move to Wraith and Lich of course.

Like what I have so far. I've always been a fan of the Missile SLAs, with the free heighten, empower and maximize they really do some damage at very little SP cost. Can spam those things all day. I can do decent damage to mobs while my Skelly and my wfie tank and DPS away. Don't know how well it would be in epics but certainly very doable heroic normal/hard/elite.

Anyone else do something similar yet?

[EllisDee37]

Andoris has a complete 18/2 wizard/rogue melee guide in the Shadovar Infiltrator thread, using the Harper tree to get int to attack and damage.

[ystrion]

I tried this build to play with some friends (One barb, one cleric and a 2hFighter, so all we missed was a trapper/spell user), i've always been told i'd deal some damage at higher level, and i was able to have some fun once i unlocked Firewall.
But recently i started feeling more useless than ever, i have 33 spot/disable device and can't find traps anymore, i have less damage than anyone, i'm getting killed faster than anyone (and can't be healed by our cleric) and if i really want to deal dmg using some metamagic, i end up without spell point in a second.
I know i must be doing something wrod since i keep meeting people one shoting group of mob with a single "scorch", so how come i deal 150 dmg with a crit with all metamagic up, while everyone seems overpowered? i've got both fire lore and combustion (+60)

[EllisDee37]

Wizards aren't sorcs; nuking everything isn't your bread and butter. Your primary strengths are crowd control and (eventually) insta-kills.

Have you tried using crowd control, like web? Putting down a web and firewall in the same spot can be highly effective. (And if you have it as an SLA, it can be heightened for free.) Before you get firewall, web and then scorch works fairly well, but scorch isn't the greatest thing in the world without metamagics, and it gets pretty expensive with them.

One of the reasons sorcerers seems to have so much stronger fire spells than you is because they can take them (burning hands and scorch) as SLAs, which lets them apply metamagics for free. So their scorch, with both maximize and empower, costs them a total of 4 spell points to cast, and they can spam it every 5 seconds. Burning Hands with both maximize and empower cost them 2 SP and can be cast every 4 seconds.

[redoubt]

I tried this build to play with some friends (One barb, one cleric and a 2hFighter, so all we missed was a trapper/spell user), i've always been told i'd deal some damage at higher level, and i was able to have some fun once i unlocked Firewall.
But recently i started feeling more useless than ever, i have 33 spot/disable device and can't find traps anymore, i have less damage than anyone, i'm getting killed faster than anyone (and can't be healed by our cleric) and if i really want to deal dmg using some metamagic, i end up without spell point in a second.
I know i must be doing something wrod since i keep meeting people one shoting group of mob with a single "scorch", so how come i deal 150 dmg with a crit with all metamagic up, while everyone seems overpowered? i've got both fire lore and combustion (+60)

I have an 18 wiz/2 rogue sun elf. I just got to 28 yesterday with it. Take a look at Ellis's comments on tactics earlier in this thread and here below.

Wizards aren't sorcs; nuking everything isn't your bread and butter. Your primary strengths are crowd control and (eventually) insta-kills.

Have you tried using crowd control, like web? Putting down a web and firewall in the same spot can be highly effective. (And if you have it as an SLA, it can be heightened for free.) Before you get firewall, web and then scorch works fairly well, but scorch isn't the greatest thing in the world without metamagics, and it gets pretty expensive with them.

One of the reasons sorcerers seems to have so much stronger fire spells than you is because they can take them (burning hands and scorch) as SLAs, which lets them apply metamagics for free. So their scorch, with both maximize and empower, costs them a total of 4 spell points to cast, and they can spam it every 5 seconds. Burning Hands with both maximize and empower cost them 2 SP and can be cast every 4 seconds.

My wiz is a PM and keeps death aura up all the time. My first few hot bar buttons are:
1, Neg energy burst (I rarely use it, but I always keep my biggest heal under this button on all my characters so I don't ever screw that one up.)
2. Mass hold monster
3. Finger of Death
4. Wail
5. Circle of death.

The first 4 are the only ones I really every use in a hurry. That is to say while zerging and not stopping. If I need more than hold, fod and wail, I need to slow down and once I slow down I can access a much wider range of commands via hotkey and/or mouse click.

All my direct damage spells are on other bars and I use the mouse for them. I don't use them often though. For example, my 3rd bar down starts like this:
1. cold and lightning caster stick set.
2. niacs biting cold dot
3. Eladar's electric loop dot

I use these on bosses where my DC spells don't apply. I have a similar bar and caster stick setup for each damage type. My main weapon pair is enchant and necro so I covers all of my first and second bars.

All that said, my level 14sorc/4fvs does way more dps than my leel 28 wizard does. I believe this is what Turbine intends. So don't worry too much about that, just realize that wizards and sorcs have been pigeon holed into DC and DPS casting respectively.

Hopefully this helps ease your mind on the dps side.

On the trapskill side:

1. As you level you should have spot, search and disable items equal to you total level or better. i.e. at level 9 you should have +9 items to wear. Past level 15 you will be stuck at 15 until you get into epics and they you should hunt for +20 items.

2. You need to keep your wisdom and spot item on at all times. (Caveat for swapping while searching and disabling. Then put wisdom and spot back on.)

3. Use +5 tools. I know they are on the auction house. I think the free agent vendor also has some. Lastly, ask for them in party chat. Most people will happily pass them to you.

4. Get the feat Inisghtful reflexes.

5. If you did not max out search, spot and disable I would recommend doing an lessor reincarnation (or fix it at a TR.) To max them out take rogue at level 1. I like to take the second rogue level around 10 or 11 to help max out skills. You can max out many skills. Starting with max int I was able to max search, spot, disable, spellpower, umd and heal (boost neg energy). I use the knock spell instead of OL.

6. Use Greater heroism. Carry the spell or carry scrolls. its basically a low cost +4 boost to all your skills and your reflex save.

An int tome can help, but I ran this life with the same +4 int tome he has had for a while now. I've never come close to missing a trap. If you are able to do the other things I have suggested, you can trap anything without the tome. It will be nice if for extra margin if you are running elite at level or want to run EE content. (And for up to a +3 boost to your spell DCs.)

As an idea of where you should be at say level 10.
Int: 18 start +2 level ups +3 enhancement, +5 item = 28 for a +9 bonus
Wis: 12 + 4 item = 16 for a +3 bonus
Skills should be at 13 ranks.

Spot: 13 ranks, +3 (wis) +10 item +4 GH = 30. I'll be honest, spot is tough and you will likely ride right on the edge of having enough spot. If you can squeak in a +6 item and a +2 tome it helps.
Search & disable: 13 ranks +9 (int) +10 item +4 GH + 1 luck (voice of the master) = 37

These numbers should get the job done. Continue using the best skill items available at each level. I often will use the same caster sticks for many levels in a row and get by, but the trap skills need to be kept up at each level if you are trying elite content.

All of this should be doable with a first life build. It looks like you run in a static group and that is great. Use crowd control and let the fighter and barb be a good chunk of your dps. Both of them will love when you use holds due to the bonus damage and the cleric will love you for using any CC because it reduces the healing load. As an example, I will run out front (this doesn't mean drawing extra agro to myself) and put down CC at the doors. When the door opens the mobs step into the CC. I'll use insta kill spells on the ones who save against the CC while melee kill all the mez'd mobs. In this way I get to play a CC caster without sacrificing offense.

Hope this helps.

[EllisDee37]

It's also worth pointing out that levels 1-7 are your most underpowered. Things pick up at 8 when you get firewall, and continue to get better from there as you add in evasion, dancing ball, circle of death, finger of death and wail.

[ystrion]

Thanks everyone for your answers,
Since i've been following the build almost perfectly, i knew it was something i was doing wrong, i'm gonna go for more CC and let you know how usefull i feel ^^
As for the traps i've got 33 search and disable device at level 9 so i think we've been doing quest to hard for me (11 or 12 going up to 13 to 14 in elite)

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instabnt death, why do we take empower and maximize?

[redoubt]

Thanks everyone for your answers,
Since i've been following the build almost perfectly, i knew it was something i was doing wrong, i'm gonna go for more CC and let you know how usefull i feel ^^
As for the traps i've got 33 search and disable device at level 9 so i think we've been doing quest to hard for me (11 or 12 going up to 13 to 14 in elite)

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instabnt death, why do we take empower and maximize?

You're in pretty deep!

That's not a bad thing really, but you are up to 5 levels under level. That is a long way and even more at the sub level 10 point where casters tend to be underpowered anyway.

If you want to run there, I'd suggest picking up a skill boost for when you are doing traps. Spot is just going to be tough. To run that under level, I recommend picking up some spot, search and disable enhancements from the rogue trees. I'd even say that tomes might be in order to help boost you up. I'd really push for +6 item in INT and WIS as well.

You will also feel underpowered in DC casting as well, because you are. Something to keep in mind is that the steps from normal to hard and hard to elite add more than a levels worth of difficulty with each step. By that, I mean that (in general) a level 9 on elite (considered 11) will be harder than a level 11 on normal. When you add all this up, when you are running a level 12 quest on elite (14), I probably has saves and CR values a level or two higher than that even. I think there is good reason that you feel underpowered.

On my DC caster I only have maximize (sometimes you just need damage.) Along with that I have, quicken, heighten, extend, enlarge, SF: ench & necro, GSF: ench & necro, Epic SF: ench

Good luck and let us know how it goes or if you have more questions.

[EllisDee37]

But now i have an other question : if we are based on CC and instant death, why do we take empower and maximize?

While leveling they're useful for AoE DOTs like firewall, but the main reason is for rednames, who are immune to both CC and instakills.

[ystrion]

Quick update :
i've been using more CC and wasting less SP, i found an awesome wand in "diplomatic impunity" and i've been playing into lower level quest, i'm still not the most awesome wizzard ever but at leats i enjoy playing and i don't feel useless so that's really good.
Thanks again for the build and the advice, i can't wait to get the cool high level insta death spell (and my wraith form)