Necro Cleric for new players

[Zachski]

This build inspired me to try an "evil cultist" flavor build of sorts with a fresh Cleric using this build - except going Dark Disciple from the beginning instead of later.

The best part about it is, if it ends up not working, it's just an enhancement reset away to become a light disciple and abuse light SLAs.

It is kinda BS that they used Necrotic Bolt for one of the DD dark SLAs, considering you can't apply any metamagics to it. I hope they change that eventually.

[EllisDee37]

This build inspired me to try an "evil cultist" flavor build of sorts with a fresh Cleric using this build - except going Dark Disciple from the beginning instead of later.

The best part about it is, if it ends up not working, it's just an enhancement reset away to become a light disciple and abuse light SLAs.

Very cool.

Post an update here after you've given it a try. I'm kind of curious, but don't think I could give up the tasty tasty light SLAs.

[Zachski]

I'm gonna say that Chill Touch is actually a superior SLA to Nimbus, simply because it actually gets new dice each level up until level 5. Which means that you'll be doing Empowered/Maximized 5d3+15 damage, in addition to any negative spellpower you'll have.

Alternate between the Inflict spells and Chill Touch to churn out some serious negative energy damage. Especially when you get to level 3, then 5, where you get better negative energy spells.

Its weakness is undead. If you have a decent Charisma score, or perhaps a Sacred item, they're a bit easier to handle, since you can stun them or outright eradicate them.

That being said, I imagine that when you get Searing Light as a Light Cleric is where you begin to literally outshine the Dark Cleric. But then when you get Negative Energy Burst, that's when you become an awesome force of darkness again.

It goes without saying that if you can buddy up with a Palemaster, they will LOVE you.

I'm trying to avoid casting Good spells as an Evil Cultist as well (I'm fairly certain healing spells don't count as Good, thankfully). Which unfortunately means no Protection from Evil. Since that spell specifically has "Good" as a component. Blah.

ETA:

If you don't mind using good alignment magic as a Dark Cleric, though, that pretty much takes care of your undead problem right there. Deific Vengeance, for example, which scales fantastically against undead enemies. And since Divine Disciple's negative energy bonuses also boost alignment spellpower, well, you're pretty much set. Granted, if you want to empower/maximize it, you gotta deal with the fact that it's not an SLA. But otherwise, for the average player, it's gold.

[Finn42]

I have played this build, so far lv 18 - and LOVING it - ty.

1)
question, what spells do you use maximize and heighten for? (ignoring healing ones as I usually double hotbar, one with all meta magics and one with just empowered healing)

using slay living, destruction, blade barrier, necro ray, harm - those are my main kill/dmg dealers.

2)
additionally, the advice to get
items like
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Scepter_of_Healing
http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemalorent%27s_Seal
and others that said:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemarkstorm_Helm
http://ddowiki.com/page/Gauntlets_of_Eternity

are there any more items like this that greatly help this build leveling ?
Not looking for a BiS list, but more of just a "get this scepter and you'll use it from 10->18 most likely" type thing.

any enhancement updates with harper tree options, or newest patch ?

thanks, Finn.

[EllisDee37]

are there any more items like this that greatly help this build leveling ?
Not looking for a BiS list, but more of just a "get this scepter and you'll use it from 10->18 most likely" type thing.

You listed the core, key items. A couple others to keep in mind are Forgotten Light (if you're good-aligned or can reach the UMD requirement) as an upgrade to Scepter of Healing. It also uses wisdom for attack and damage in addition to giving useful spell power. The old best-in-slot armor was the blue dragonscale line, but changes to how arcane lore work make those moderately useful at best. Possibly the druid's deep armor might be worth considering.

any enhancement updates with harper tree options, or newest patch ?

Nothing has struck my fancy so far. I'm always keeping an eye out for updates that impact the build, but so far no changes seem warranted.

[pappo]

You listed the core, key items. A couple others to keep in mind are Forgotten Light (if you're good-aligned or can reach the UMD requirement) as an upgrade to Scepter of Healing. It also uses wisdom for attack and damage in addition to giving useful spell power. The old best-in-slot armor was the blue dragonscale line, but changes to how arcane lore work make those moderately useful at best. Possibly the druid's deep armor might be worth considering.

Nothing has struck my fancy so far. I'm always keeping an eye out for updates that impact the build, but so far no changes seem warranted.

I have been running your Necro Cleric and am now up to level 23. I am hitting the Necrotic Ray for ~700 and Word of Balance hits for 400-500 so those are good. The Slay Living doesn't seem to land at all anymore. Greater Command is being saved most of the time.

What spells do you use in Epics. I remember a post where you said you Greater Command the mobs and then jump over and Slay Living or Destruct the casters. This seems to not be landing as much anymore.

Can you tell me your tactics in Epic Elite quests ?

Thanks though. This has been a lot of fun to play.

ps: I am on second life as a cleric.

[EllisDee37]

Can you tell me your tactics in Epic Elite quests ?

I don't run Epic Elite. SirValentine runs EE on a similar cleric build; check out his Budstein thread.

[SirValentine]

The Slay Living doesn't seem to land at all anymore. Greater Command is being saved most of the time.

What spells do you use in Epics. I remember a post where you said you Greater Command the mobs and then jump over and Slay Living or Destruct the casters. This seems to not be landing as much anymore.

Can you tell me your tactics in Epic Elite quests ?

Getting workable DCs for Epic Hard shouldn't be too difficult, and in the lower-level EEs, but it takes a lot of investment to get good DCs for higher-level Epic Elite quests. What are your Enchantment & Necromancy DCs sitting at, and in what content are you not landing them?

I have a Wisdom & DC breakdown for my Cleric, to maybe give you an idea of things you might do to get higher DCs.

As for tactics, Destruction & Slay Living are my bread-and-butter trash killers, with the occasional Implosion & Mass Frog thrown in. Also, against Undead, Undeath to Death.

I do use Greater Command, either to leave mobs CCed for melees in the party to kill while I go elsewhere, or specifically against EE Storm Horns high-Fortitude-save mobs like Orcs & Giants, which I can't reliably kill without debuffing first. Cause Fear & Necrotic Ray are my two cheapest debuffs, have no save, and are the same school as Destruction so the Deific Diadem bonus kicks in.

Orange-named mobs: level drain them. Optionally also CCing them, with Greater Command or, if applicable, Hold Person. If it's off timer and the mob does not have Spell Resistance, Mass Frog works on them.

Red-named mobs: semi-pike while the rest of the party kills them. Throw Divine Healing on the rest of the party, use Vile Blasphemy & other clickies, and pretend I'm contributing by throwing Divine Wrath, my Past Life Magic Missiles, Avenging Light & Necrotic Ray. That's just me, though; some Clerics have more of a nuking focus than I do.

[SirValentine]

question, what spells do you use maximize and heighten for? (ignoring healing ones as I usually double hotbar, one with all meta magics and one with just empowered healing)

I'd suggest using Heighten on any and all of your crowd control & instakill spells you can. E.g.:
Hold Person
Holy Smite
Slay Living
Greater Command
Undeath to Death
Cometfall
Destruction
Symbol of Pain/Persuasion/Stunning

For Maximize, it depends a lot. How much SP do you have left, and how many HPs does the enemy have? Maximize can eat through SP fast if you're not careful. For several spells, I keep both un-meta-ed and fully-meta-ed versions.

[SirValentine]

are there any more items like this that greatly help this build leveling ?
Not looking for a BiS list, but more of just a "get this scepter and you'll use it from 10->18 most likely" type thing.

Hmm...how about:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shadowsight_(Level_15)
Good for levels 15-21 or so at least.

[pappo]

Getting workable DCs for Epic Hard shouldn't be too difficult, and in the lower-level EEs, but it takes a lot of investment to get good DCs for higher-level Epic Elite quests. What are your Enchantment & Necromancy DCs sitting at, and in what content are you not landing them?

I have a Wisdom & DC breakdown for my Cleric, to maybe give you an idea of things you might do to get higher DCs.

As for tactics, Destruction & Slay Living are my bread-and-butter trash killers, with the occasional Implosion & Mass Frog thrown in. Also, against Undead, Undeath to Death.

I do use Greater Command, either to leave mobs CCed for melees in the party to kill while I go elsewhere, or specifically against EE Storm Horns high-Fortitude-save mobs like Orcs & Giants, which I can't reliably kill without debuffing first. Cause Fear & Necrotic Ray are my two cheapest debuffs, have no save, and are the same school as Destruction so the Deific Diadem bonus kicks in.

Orange-named mobs: level drain them. Optionally also CCing them, with Greater Command or, if applicable, Hold Person. If it's off timer and the mob does not have Spell Resistance, Mass Frog works on them.

Red-named mobs: semi-pike while the rest of the party kills them. Throw Divine Healing on the rest of the party, use Vile Blasphemy & other clickies, and pretend I'm contributing by throwing Divine Wrath, my Past Life Magic Missiles, Avenging Light & Necrotic Ray. That's just me, though; some Clerics have more of a nuking focus than I do.

Thanks for the reply.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the build. I just see the numbers and results you post and wish I was there. I forget that there are many reasons why I am not doing that DPS.

My reasons I am not doing your DPS at level 23 are:

1. WISDOM = Base 23 + Tome +6 + Feats and Enh +7 + Items/Effects 11 = 47
2. NOT Completionist
3. Nowhere near your gear. The only item I have from one of your early lists is Symbol of Shining Sun necklace, Breastplate of Shining Sun, Health +8 Dodge 6% bracers, Signet of Shining Sun Ring 1, Skirmisher's Gloves Strength +8
4. Necro DC only 41
5. Enchantment DC 38
6. Where was it not landing. Many places. One I can recall was the Lizard Shamans in 3 barrel cove Epics Garls Tomb

Like I said, after reviewing my stats, I am not even close to the DC's you show. Gear, pots, completionist, and 5 more Epic levels are needed at minimum.
Still a fun build. I will just have to decline when my guildies offer Epic Elites... lol

Regards

[EllisDee37]

1. WISDOM = Base 23 + Tome +6 + Feats and Enh +7 + Items/Effects 11 = 47

I can't tell if you have +6 from exalted angel. If not, that's a good place to start.

[SirValentine]

...at level 23...

Level in Epic does make a fairly big difference, mostly due to gear, but also partly level-ups & Epic feats.

Gear, pots, completionist, and 5 more Epic levels are needed at minimum.
Still a fun build. I will just have to decline when my guildies offer Epic Elites... lol

I would not ever tell anyone they need to get Completionist. It's a huge time investment for a (nice, but) relatively small bonus. I don't regret doing it myself, but it's in no way required.

If you haven't and can, though, 1 Wizard past life is a pretty good effort-reward ratio.

[pappo]

I can't tell if you have +6 from exalted angel. If not, that's a good place to start.

Right now my +6 is from a +5 to +6 upgrade tome from the Auction House.
The Khyber server is down right now, but when it is up I will check to see where I am at in the EA Destiny.

Update: I checked and I only have 6 points in Exalted at this time. I had started out in Unyielding Sentinel for some reason I cannot remember. Probably worried about CON. I will keep working on EA full time now and pick up more WIS.
Thanks for all your help.

[pappo]

I can't tell if you have +6 from exalted angel. If not, that's a good place to start.

I made lvl 24 now and have 15 points in Exalted Angel. My WIS stat now is 52, and Necro DC is 47 and Evocation DC is 41. My necrotic ray has had some crits up to 1700.
Slay living hits Gianthold Epic giants for 500.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death

I also picked up the Staff of the Necromancer ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_the_Necromancer ) which helped the Necro a lot.

[EllisDee37]

I made lvl 24 now and have 15 points in Exalted Angel. My WIS stat now is 52, and Necro DC is 47 and Evocation DC is 41. My necrotic ray has had some crits up to 1700.
Slay living hits Gianthold Epic giants for 500.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death

I also picked up the Staff of the Necromancer ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_the_Necromancer ) which helped the Necro a lot.

For comparison, my guy on live -- who I do not consider EE capable -- has 57 wisdom, 56 necro DC, and 49 evo DC at level 25.

[pappo]

For comparison, my guy on live -- who I do not consider EE capable -- has 57 wisdom, 56 necro DC, and 49 evo DC at level 25.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death.
I was running an EE GH and another Evo cleric was landing Implosion insta-kills quite often. Mine did good damage, but not insta-kill.

[EllisDee37]

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death.
I was running an EE GH and another Evo cleric was landing Implosion insta-kills quite often. Mine did good damage, but not insta-kill.

When you say "epics", are you talking about EE?

I've repeatedly explained that I do not run EE.

[SirValentine]

I made lvl 24 now and have 15 points in Exalted Angel. My WIS stat now is 52, and Necro DC is 47 and Evocation DC is 41.

Sounds like you're getting close to picking up this from Exalted Angel (it's a core ability):

Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells.

That will make a big difference. Also, though it doesn't help you right away, eventually twisting in +3 DC from Magister School Specialist helps a lot too.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death

Yes.

I also picked up the Staff of the Necromancer ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_the_Necromancer ) which helped the Necro a lot.

That's not bad at all. However, at level 24 you can be looking for an item with +4 Necromancy DC. It falls as random loot; check your Auction House occasionally.

Also, do you have a Topaz of Greater Necromancy (ML24)? Or at least a Topaz of Necromancy (ML16)? Yellow Augments, can be purchased from vendors in Gianthold, give stacking bonus to DC.

I was running an EE GH...

Like I said, level matters. A level 28 character still gets Bravery Bonus for GH. You're effectively running 4 levels under-level in EE GH, and without a capped destiny or good gear. You'll get better results in EH or lower-level EEs while you level your destinies & improve your gear.

[pappo]

When you say "epics", are you talking about EE?

I've repeatedly explained that I do not run EE.

Sorry I forgot that you did mention that. Didn't mean to "p" you off man. I do appreciate this build of yours.