Necro Cleric for new players

[pappo]

Dwarf loses a feat and skills, both of which hurt. The skills less so, especially if you have a +2 int tome.

Losing the feat hurts more. In early levels your SLAs will be significantly weaker, but I suppose it should still work. If I had to drop a feat, I'd probably drop enlarge. Enlarge isn't taken until level 24, though, meaning the rest of the feats would all get pushed back 3 levels. That'll make leveling a bit uncomfortable but not impossible.

EllisDee - Thanks for the honest answer. Maybe I should try my Dwarf on your Kensai Warpriest instead. I would have a Cleric pastlife to use.
Would a Dwarf do better on that?
Should I transfer my question to your Warpriest thread : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426765 ??

[vampiregoat69]

This says Necro cleric yet you take light path is there a reason for that?

[Nodoze]

This says Necro cleric yet you take light path is there a reason for that?

There is a lot of care in the build/post giving a level by level path for new players but sometimes all the detail can make it hard to see everything...

I think it levels with Light SLAs at first and then switches to Necro.

From above:

... There's a feat respec at level 12. ...

... Enhancement: Reset Divine Disciple tree (see below) ...

...
The basic concept for leveling is to rely on the Divine Disciple light SLAs to carry you until you get the higher power spells like blade barrier, slay living, destruction and implosion. ...

... At level 20 you need to reset the Divine Disciple tree to drop the Nimbus of Light SLA. (This is also for easy reference if you're using the free LR+20.) ...

...
Core: Transcendence
...

IIRC Transcendence gives you both the light side and dark sides...

[SirValentine]

IIRC Transcendence gives you both the light side and dark sides...

Transcendence gives you access to the extra spells from both the Light and Dark cores. But your original choice still dictates which +DC you can get, which spell power or SLAs, etc..

My own current build is a Necro Cleric, which, not surprisingly, has a lot in common with Ellis's build here. I was Light up until level 11, using Light SLAs heavily, then swapped to Dark and took no SLAs.

[EllisDee37]

This says Necro cleric yet you take light path is there a reason for that?

Initially it's to have access to better SLAs in the disciple tree. At level 20 you get all spells from either side, and the spells are better than the SLAs so it becomes moot.

Keep in mind that there's pretty much no benefit from +1 necromancy DC until you get slay living anyway.

EDIT: I just realized that the build in the OP says to stay lightside at 20, which is why you're asking the question. I change to darkside similar to SirValentine describes, but I haven't updated the OP yet. I think I address this around page 3. I should really update the OP in the very near future.

[EllisDee37]

Transcendence gives you access to the extra spells from both the Light and Dark cores. But your original choice still dictates which +DC you can get, which spell power or SLAs, etc..

Hey question for you: How good is the Holy Smite SLA? Should I rework the build to race to it as a core feature until the switch to the dark side? (I may update the build today or tomorrow anyway, and if Holy Smite is really good then this gives me a legitimate reason to get off my $%#$%^ and get it done.)

And yep, this explains the core concept better than I did:

I was Light up until level 11, using Light SLAs heavily, then swapped to Dark and took no SLAs.

[SirValentine]

Hey question for you: How good is the Holy Smite SLA? Should I rework the build to race to it as a core feature until the switch to the dark side? (I may update the build today or tomorrow anyway, and if Holy Smite is really good then this gives me a legitimate reason to get off my $%#$%^ and get it done.)

It's the first real AOE damage divines gets. Sure, it's not as much damage as Fireball (d8 per 2 levels instead of d6 per 1), but the damage is decent and, let me stress this, IT'S AOE. So if you like Sorc-style zerg until Red Alert then blast them all at once, it's there for you. Even if you have to wait through a cooldown, it's nice at level 6. And it works even better when you can combine the SLA with the actual spell at level 7.

Of course, once I get Blade Barrier & Cometfall, I pretty much never cast it again. :-)

[Dmitrythewizzy]

Hey question for you: How good is the Holy Smite SLA? Should I rework the build to race to it as a core feature until the switch to the dark side? (I may update the build today or tomorrow anyway, and if Holy Smite is really good then this gives me a legitimate reason to get off my $%#$%^ and get it done.)

And yep, this explains the core concept better than I did:

Thank you very much for this build. I am a returning player and TRed for a third life and used this to go to level 14 where I used the experience stone to bump to twenty where I am today. This is as high as I have ever been because it was the top level the last time I played. Any advice on gearing at 20 and where best to level? I have a TON of great content to still experience (I have not touched Forgotten Realms stuff at all) and so I am in no great hurry to power up from here. I found your build to be a good solo/group balance and have had a blast doing both. Feel free to consider me a Nuub because I am (even though on 3rd life .

Where best to solo hunt?

What items are best to work on?

What spells should I be casting?

How best to help out in a group outside of healing?

Again, thank you a TON for doing this build. It made the game so much more enjoyable to know I was not gimping myself as I levelled.

[Nodoze]

Thank you very much for this build. I am a returning player and TRed for a third life and used this to go to level 14 where I used the experience stone to bump to twenty where I am today. This is as high as I have ever been because it was the top level the last time I played. Any advice on gearing at 20 and where best to level? I have a TON of great content to still experience (I have not touched Forgotten Realms stuff at all) and so I am in no great hurry to power up from here. I found your build to be a good solo/group balance and have had a blast doing both. Feel free to consider me a Nuub because I am (even though on 3rd life .

Where best to solo hunt?

What items are best to work on?

What spells should I be casting?

How best to help out in a group outside of healing?

Again, thank you a TON for doing this build. It made the game so much more enjoyable to know I was not gimping myself as I levelled.

I personally like farming the commendation gear at 20. It gives a good reason to see the MotU content and is good gear at 20 that lasts for awhile when leveling up further. You can find more info here:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_s...tion_Item_Sets

[Dmitrythewizzy]

I personally like farming the commendation gear at 20. It gives a good reason to see the MotU content and is good gear at 20 that lasts for awhile when leveling up further. You can find more info here:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_s...tion_Item_Sets

Thanks... will give that a roll!

[EllisDee37]

My own current build is a Necro Cleric, which, not surprisingly, has a lot in common with Ellis's build here. I was Light up until level 11, using Light SLAs heavily, then swapped to Dark and took no SLAs.

I'm sitting down now to redo the enhancements for this build, and would love your feedback on heroic leveling.

Starting with all points into DD, racing to all 3 SLAs asap. (Nimbus @ 1, Searing @ 3, Smite @ 6). This seems like a safe start, to be used regardless of the rest of the way. But then level 11 brings a hard choice.

I'm leaning toward a complete changeover at level 11, where the empower feat (taken at 1) gets swapped for spell penetration. At the same time, reset the divine disciple tree to switch to dark side and take no SLAs at all.

Is this essentially what you did? And if so, how was the experience at level 11 with no SLAs but the much shinier new toy of blade barrier?

EDIT: A followup question: I'm tempted to go with all Light spell power in the DD tree for the first 10 levels since the build does all its damage with light. However, that means no positive spell power from enhancements at all. Would you recommend going all light for the DD spell poiwer, all universal, or a mixture of the two? This is just for the first 10 levels, before the switch.

My inclination is universal, but I'm definitely curious about the pure light approach.

[SirValentine]

I'm leaning toward a complete changeover at level 11, where the empower feat (taken at 1) gets swapped for spell penetration. At the same time, reset the divine disciple tree to switch to dark side and take no SLAs at all.

Is this essentially what you did? And if so, how was the experience at level 11 with no SLAs but the much shinier new toy of blade barrier?

Pretty much what I did, yes.

However, I never took Empower at all. If I had it, though, swapping it for Spell Pen wouldn't be a priority prior to Vale of Twilight, unless you're worried about the higher cost (Exceptional versus plain Siberys Dragonshard).

And having no SLAs at 11+ was no hardship. Blade Barrier all kite-able trash, insta-kill non-kite-able, DP bosses.

EDIT: A followup question: I'm tempted to go with all Light spell power in the DD tree for the first 10 levels since the build does all its damage with light. However, that means no positive spell power from enhancements at all. Would you recommend going all light for the DD spell poiwer, all universal, or a mixture of the two? This is just for the first 10 levels, before the switch.

My inclination is universal, but I'm definitely curious about the pure light approach.

Hmm...I think I did go with all Light spell power at first, but I don't remember for sure. Healing is easy enough at low levels that I don't think you'd miss the Positive too much. (They sell Cure pots! :-} )

After I switched to Dark side, I went straight Universal Spell Power.

[EllisDee37]

Thanks much, I appreciate the feedback.

However, I never took Empower at all. If I had it, though, swapping it for Spell Pen wouldn't be a priority prior to Vale of Twilight, unless you're worried about the higher cost (Exceptional versus plain Siberys Dragonshard).

Yes, purely a cost issue. Obviously not for me, but more thinking about a brand new player rolling up one of these as their very first character.

However, I do start to notice spell resistance around level 12, specifically the duergar in Ataraxia and relic of a sovereign past. And remember that empower is really just for the SLAs, which we're dropping at the same time. (It helps with burst, but as we both can attest burst works fine with just maximize and empower heal.)

EDIT: And I just remembered the drow in VON3, plus the demons in threnal and sorrowdusk. While there isn't a ton of utility for spell penetration from 11-17, I think there's enough to help justify switching at 11 for the cost.

EDIT 2: Oh, sweet, the enhancements make going all light for the first 10 levels a no-brainer because the tier 2 spell power is a choice between fire, force and universal. So tier 1 all light, tier 2 universal, tier 3 all light. This makes me happy; the enhancements are falling into place just about perfectly.

[EllisDee37]

Okay, the enhancements are finally updated. While I did redo the entire build section of the OP, none of the feats, skills, starting stats, or ability raises changed. Just the enhancements. I also made a minor change to the destiny section, dropping avenging light in favor of the last point of wisdom and adding in boulder toss as the third twist. I do love me some boulder toss.

[thouston]

Okay, the enhancements are finally updated. While I did redo the entire build section of the OP, none of the feats, skills, starting stats, or ability raises changed. Just the enhancements. I also made a minor change to the destiny section, dropping avenging light in favor of the last point of wisdom and adding in boulder toss as the third twist. I do love me some boulder toss.

tyvm

[assimilateur]

Currently nuking - if it can be called that on a cleric - using light DD SLAs and leveling Shiradi but I'm probably going to TR or LR and try for DC casting after I'm done with this, so this thread has been helpful so far. Especially since my experience with casters is rather limited.

Can you flesh out some info on what your DCs and stats (mainly wisdom) look like when geared? My DCs are in the mid to high 30s (admittedly without DC feats and twists, but those only account for like 5 or 6 in the case of necromancy unless I'm forgetting something) while my wisdom is in the low 40s, and I have only a vague idea of how any of this is supposed to be significantly improved. I mean my +7 enhancement, +2 insightful wisdom gear is only a couple points shy of what the benchmark here is but I hear about people getting 50s or 60s in their caster stats like it's nothing. Maybe there's some obvious, reasonably easy to get gear that I'm missing here?

Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all. And that's on a human, meaning playing another race would require you to drop one extra feat. So maybe a non-human should drop maximize as well and give up on direct damage spells altogether? Or do you have better ideas?

[EllisDee37]

In terms of DC, here's the basic foundation you can acquire without much effort using the build as written: (There's one minor change, switching the third twist from boulder toss to wisdom.)

Wisdom
18 base
7 levelups
2 divine disciple tree
2 radiant servant tree
2 capstone
1 human adaptability (also available to half-elf)
6 exalted angel (12 AP)
1 twist (drop boulder toss)
2 tome (1750 favor)
1 epic feat
10 item
3 insightful
1 exceptional
2 ship buff
----
58 total (24 mod)

Necromancy
10 base
9 heighten
24 wisdom
1 focus feat
3 magister twist
1 divine disciple tier 4
4 focus item +4
2 augment
----
54 DC

54 is, of course, not great. It's worth pointing out that a necro DC of 54 is pretty solid for EH, so the basic build without much effort will have you running EH without issue. EE is another matter, where you really want to get on the higher side of the mid-60s. To try and get there requires some more exotic additions and changes:

Wisdom
58 starting
1 warpriest tree (take disciple to tier 5 instead of servant, meaning you lose aura)
1 +11 item
2 yugo pot
3 mabar +5 tome
1 litany of the dead
2 alchemical +2 wisdom weapon or shield
2 acute instincts (twist from fury, drop brace for impact)
2 completionist
----
72 wisdom (31 mod)

Necromancy
54 starting
7 wisdom
1 wizard past life
1 focus item +5
1 greater focus feat (drop enlarge)
1 epic focus feat (drop epic spell pen, get a couple wizard past lives to compensate)
1 divine disciple tier 5
---
66 DC

66 necro DC is viable for EE, at least prior to U21. As an added bonus, the U21 gear lets you add in another few DC thanks to the new caster sticks you can get from the raid. This is particularly appealing because it means you no longer need alchemical weapons with their unique +2 wisdom. (They are equivalent to shroud crafting in terms of gathering mats but unlike shroud, almost nobody runs them.) Even losing that +2 the U21 caster sticks are a net increase in your DC.

[EllisDee37]

Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all. And that's on a human, meaning playing another race would require you to drop one extra feat. So maybe a non-human should drop maximize as well and give up on direct damage spells altogether? Or do you have better ideas?

Well, in fairness, I can't wrap my head around using both maximize and empower without having to chug mana pots like they're going out of style. If I had to drop a feat to fit in empower I'd drop enlarge.

In any case, I would never drop maximize. Consider your easily-acquired basic spell power for force/untyped:

36 divine disciple
16 radiant servant (32 AP spent)
114 augment
21 implement
----
187 force spell power

Pretty sure I'm missing some points there, but this works fine to illustrate the point. Now we add maximize:

187 base
150 maximize
----
337 force spell power

150 is 80% of 187, meaning adding maximize adds 80% more damage. Now add in empower on top of that:

337 base
75 empower
----
412 force spell power

75 is 22% of 337, meaning that it effectively only gives a little over a quarter of the benefit that maximize gives. (22% increase compared to not having it, where maximize gave an 80% increase compared to not having it.)

[unbongwah]

Well, in fairness, I can't wrap my head around using both maximize and empower without having to chug mana pots like they're going out of style.

Normally I think Empower is worth it just for bursts & SLAs; I only use it for regular spells when I'm in mana-dump mode. But it looks like you take no SLAs from DiDi, so your build would get less mileage from Emp. Different strokes etc.

[EllisDee37]

Normally I think Empower is worth it just for bursts & SLAs; I only use it for regular spells when I'm in mana-dump mode. But it looks like you take no SLAs from DiDi, so your build would get less mileage from Emp. Different strokes etc.

Agreed, but he was talking specifically about blade barrier and divine punishment:

Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all.