I Am Usually the Guy...

[Elements]

Who takes the "wait and see" approach for mods and updates. With all that I have read lately, I decided to check out Lamannia and I am utterly disappointed. I am sick of being fed ground beef and told it is a filet. I can tell that it is not raining outside yet I am still getting wet. I can tell you thousands of ways that I feel like I am being duped and force fed something I never asked for or wanted. Thank you Turbine for at least giving me a +20 LR token, but now you have ruined my race and I would like to change it. No, this isn't a compromise you're just plain telling me eat it and like it or leave. Is that how you really treat customers? I should know by now that next year you will redo the enhancements again but quite frankly I am just sick of it. Look back - how many times have you changed enhancements? Will you ever be happy and just leave it alone?

I appreciate communication but unless I have missed something I don't understand why you are changing the enhancements. What are you trying to accomplish? I play DDO because it is not a clone of the most popular MMO. Communication needs to be HONEST and followed through with. For example, I remember reading a new PRE will be introduced every update. Did that happen? I remember reading Druid would be the next class introduced, long before Artificer and Monk came out. Basically, I was lied to repeatedly with no communication as to why things changed or needed to be changed. If the UI isn't liked for the enhancements, why are you changing what the enhancements are? Just be honest - sure I will complain that I don't like it, but at least I know what is going on.

All I hear about is balance. How is anything balanced when you have never told us what the level cap will be or what the PRE's will be? How can you balance anything when you have never installed everything? I am so sick of hearing about game balance when basically you promote the flavor of the month. I could go all the way back to the "batman build" and the ability to have evasion with full plate. You will never achieve balance in DDO. Every class and race has advantages and disadvantages. So just quit f###ing with it and let the game be what it is - a game based off of pen and paper rules X edition.

[FlaviusMaximus]

I am sick of being fed ground beef and told it is a filet... No, this isn't a compromise you're just plain telling me eat it and like it or leave...

Were you hungry when you wrote this?

[Thrudh]

Who takes the "wait and see" approach for mods and updates. With all that I have read lately, I decided to check out Lamannia and I am utterly disappointed. I am sick of being fed ground beef and told it is a filet. I can tell that it is not raining outside yet I am still getting wet. I can tell you thousands of ways that I feel like I am being duped and force fed something I never asked for or wanted. Thank you Turbine for at least giving me a +20 LR token, but now you have ruined my race and I would like to change it. No, this isn't a compromise you're just plain telling me eat it and like it or leave.

What race? My guys ALL got better in the new enhancement pass.. I keep nearly everything I have before, and all of them gain something too. I did notice that my elf wizard took ZERO elf enhancements, so I will probably TR him as a half-elf or human or warforged. My half-elf, halfling, and half-orc characters are all very happy with their race enhancements.

Is a TR out of the question for you? What are your specific issues? Your post gives the devs absolutely nothing to work with.

[JOTMON]

I can tell that it is not raining outside yet I am still getting wet. .

That wasn't rain water.. you were standing belew the dev urnials.

[lyrecono]

please read more of the forum, half orcs have been greatly nerfed, barbs lost a lot of dps, gear isnt working or got outright broken/nerfed, lots of other races are missing enhancements.

The dwarfs and halflings are doing ok though, i guess being short does help avoiding the nerf bat.
races wont be covered by a +20 heart so you might need to tr to get out of the racial mess

there is no reason to take kensai above lv 12, many prestige classes are not finished or need splashes in other class tree's to work.

the named random loot was badly thought out and only when people complained for weaks they admitted they"forgot"to post the other named loot list, wich btw is still filled with weak traits.
(how hard is it to develop a weapon to surpass the Esos? melee's are strugling in the lv18+ elites)

so far i wont reccomend this pack to my friends and guildies, maybe the stormhorn location, (when this can be bought seperatly in the ddo store) just for the view though, since so far the loot and exp is realy bad, not to mention the horrid shard guide.....

please wake up and smell the Rafflesia arnoldii

[Krelar]

What race? My guys ALL got better in the new enhancement pass.. I keep nearly everything I have before, and all of them gain something too. I did notice that my elf wizard took ZERO elf enhancements, so I will probably TR him as a half-elf or human or warforged. My half-elf, halfling, and half-orc characters are all very happy with their race enhancements.

Personally I'll never spend more than 3 AP in the human tree now. (Maybe 5 if I need to even out a stat thats not in my class trees) So I'm losing 2 tiers of healing amp because I have to take way to much junk to unlock them now. I know some people love action boosts, I hate short 20 second buffs I have to micromanage and that takes up about 1/3 of the tree.

[Elements]

Is a TR out of the question for you? What are your specific issues? Your post gives the devs absolutely nothing to work with.

The reason why I will not TR again is that I have a Completionist with 3 Pally Lives, 3 Fighter Lives, 3 Barbarian Lives, 3 Rogue Lives, and 3 Monk lives. He is my main character and currently is a fighter/rogue. I really see no point in TRing him as a Fighter again and getting absolutely no benefit. The two weeks of work to get 4.387M XP to get to cap again is not worth it for no past life benefit. Essentially I would be throwing away over 8M XP and a month's work for no more benefit than to adapt to a new enhancement system that I did not want.

Sure I could LR with my +20 token into a Sorcerer but some spell DC's and spell points would not benefit me. Honestly, Ranger is a waste unless I am ranging (and I don't). I don't need +1 to my UMD from Arty because I already have a 100% success rate on every scroll I need to use. I can't find any reason to TR other than to adapt to the new enhancement lines so that I can play the identical character I have now. I don't want close to, similar to, or near I want what I have now.

[Thrudh]

please read more of the forum, half orcs have been greatly nerfed, barbs lost a lot of dps

Have you checked the latest Lamannia build... Half-orcs are STRONGER than before... They get 20% more damage on stunned opponents... That's almost as good a Tier IV epic ability. (Do they stack by the way? I'm assuming so, but not sure). Half-orc barbarians are doing great... My barb has 2 fighter levels and that's much better in the new system... I splashed that in the old system for +1 STR, +1 stunning blow, +1 trip, 15% haste boost. Now I get +3 tactics DCs, and 30% Haste boost.

That's a huge boost, not a nerf.

[Elements]

What race? My guys ALL got better in the new enhancement pass.. I keep nearly everything I have before, and all of them gain something too. I did notice that my elf wizard took ZERO elf enhancements, so I will probably TR him as a half-elf or human or warforged. My half-elf, halfling, and half-orc characters are all very happy with their race enhancements.

Is a TR out of the question for you? What are your specific issues? Your post gives the devs absolutely nothing to work with.

As for what race, I don't know yet. I have not had time to experiment with builds and enhancements yet to get exactly what I have on Live. My main character, who is 18 Fighter/2 Rogue has two rogue enhancements - Wand and Scroll Mastery and Sneak Attack Training I, for a total of 2 AP's. With past life feats and healing amp, I can scroll heal myself extremely well with Wand and Scroll Mastery providing a 30% bonus. I don't know how I will acquire that 30% bonus for 1 AP in the new system. Maybe I have to go from dwarf to human? All of my characters (Bard, Human Sorc, Arty and my main) are all based off the concept of being 100% self sufficient. I didn't see in the new system how I could acquire this without time and effort to play with not only classes but races. Time and effort I don't feel like spending at this point because this format looks awfully similar to what AoC used and my guess is someone got hired from AoC and decided that this was the best enhancement system ever and force fed it into DDO. (I don't know if this is a fact, but just an opinion based on my experience with other MMO's and what DDO is doing).

Honestly, I am annoyed at the fact that on every character I have to go back and add stat points to INT so I can take the new Spell Power skill - why is there this need and effort suddenly put into making every skill relevant? So long story short, if I could tell you exactly what I needed to do to get exactly what I had before I would identify those for you. Unfortunately, I can't it takes more than a week or a month IMO of messing around playing with feats, classes, races etc to achieve the build I want. With no build planner made available by Turbine the only way to achieve an ends to my issue that I see is to experiment on the Live server. I have been experimenting and rolling with the punches since beta. At this point, I am getting really frustrated with Turbine. Quite frankly, if I hadn't met such great friends and have family that I play with daily for hours, I would flat out quit. Change for the sake of change is worthless.

[Elements]

That wasn't rain water.. you were standing belew the dev urnials.

I am NOT thankful for the golden shower!

[FlaviusMaximus]

please read more of the forum... Rafflesia arnoldii

Actually, don't. There is very little information that gets posted in here that is actually researched or tested. It's more of a nightmare game of telephone, where misinformation is repeated, passed on, exaggerated, and passed on again and again until it becomes an unstoppable avalanche of utter bull***t.

But please, let's all post more vague, nonspecific statements about the enhancement update and pretend like they come as a result of testing rather than perusing the forums with a confirmation bias.

[lyrecono]

Have you checked the latest Lamannia build... Half-orcs are STRONGER than before... They get 20% more damage on stunned opponents... That's almost as good a Tier IV epic ability. (Do they stack by the way? I'm assuming so, but not sure). Half-orc barbarians are doing great... My barb has 2 fighter levels and that's much better in the new system... I splashed that in the old system for +1 STR, +1 stunning blow, +1 trip, 15% haste boost. Now I get +3 tactics DCs, and 30% Haste boost.

That's a huge boost, not a nerf.

i log on to lam every day its up, trying to salvige my toons, and all i see is badly designed enhancements
the amount of trash i need to pick up is astounding to get the 20% extra damage
the worst offender though was the +str when damaged, you're forced to take them and they are a waste of points.
my half orc does 200 to 250 base damage with cleaver on live (no rage/buffs etc)
he does 100-125 on lamania while being 3 levels higher (form 25 to 28).
i reset his enhancements 37 times now and used ever prc class.
no change...
bugg reported it, still no change, something got nerfed or broken.
yes i know of the power attack de-actevating when starting to rage, i turn it back on.
racial enhancements are too expencive

i got a dwarven tank to work, but half orc barb? i wouldn't want to play it on live.
loosing 50% dps (you do know that the reason why we play barbs is dps?)
i got haste boost from LD if needed, though i assume its nice for leveling though you did lose +1 str btw

maybe if your barb was weaksause to begin with...idk it might have gotten a boost, mine however got nerfed from orbit

[lyrecono]

Actually, don't. There is very little information that gets posted in here that is actually researched or tested. It's more of a nightmare game of telephone, where misinformation is repeated, passed on, exaggerated, and passed on again and again until it becomes an unstoppable avalanche of utter bull***t.

But please, let's all post more vague, nonspecific statements about the enhancement update and pretend like they come as a result of testing rather than perusing the forums with a confirmation bias.

then please, build me a horc barb(atleast 12 levels) that gives back my 200-250 base damage and proof me wrong.
but don't come with this excuse because people have been complaining for years on lamania, forums even youtube vid's about this shotty type of work and have been proven right 90% of the times.
i have tested all the points i mentioned myself (my main has done 27 tr's on lamania since the expansion went beta)
having tried paladin's, monks, barbs, fighters, rangers and a few others, splashes and pure builds combined with several races.
Although i greatly trust my guildies/friends judgement on lamania, i dont post their opinnions.

the only thing i got to work really well was a dwarven defender the rest was broken.

[Thrudh]

It's real simple... Look at your enhancements on Live, then compare to enhancements on Lamannia

My half-orc 18/2 barb/fighter has the following enhancements on live

Damage Boost IV (30% damage)
Extra Action Boost
Orc Extra Action Boost II
Sprint Boost I
Fighter Haste Boost I (15% haste)
Extend Rage II (50%)
Extra Rage I
Hardy Rage III (+3 CON)
Power Rage III (+3 STR)
Barb Intimidation
Power Attack III
Orc Power Attack I
Stunning Blow I
Trip I
Orc Melee Damage (+4 with two-handers)
Orc STR II
Orc Toughness II
Barb Toughness II
Barb CON II
Fighter STR I
Frenzied Berzerker III (+2 crit multiplier on 19-20),
Supreme Cleave (2[W])
Frenzy
Death Frenzy (another +1 crit multiplier)


On Lamannia I get

Damage Boost III (25% damage)
Extra Action Boost I (from Kensai)
Extra Action Boost II (from Frenzied Berzerker)
Sprint Boost I
Fighter Haste Boost III (30% haste)
Extend Rage II (50%)
Extra Rage III
Hardy Rage III (+3 CON)
Power Rage III (+3 STR)
Power Attack II (Barb)
Orc Power Attack II
+3 Tactics DCs
Orc Melee Damage (+6 with two-handers)
Orc STR II
Barb CON II
Orc STR +2 when raging
Frenzied Berzerker III (+2 crit multiplier on 19-20),
Supreme Cleave (2[W])
Frenzy
Death Frenzy (another +1 crit multiplier)

So compare those... Both give the +3 crit multiplier on 19-20... Same number of extra Action Boosts, same Hardy Rage and Power rage... Same Extend Rage, Two extra rages instead of one. Same Barb +2 CON, Same half-orc +2 STR. Same Power Attack bonuses. Same Frenzy, Death Frenzy, Supreme Cleave.

Damage Boost is slightly lower, but I go from 15% Haste Boostt to a full 30% Haste Boost.
Half-orc Power Rage gives an extra +2 STR when raging
Half-orc gives +6 to damage when using two-handed weapons instead of +4

Half-orc gives BRUTALITY!!!! (20% damage to stunned opponents) - this stack with Sense weakness?

+3 tactics DCs instead of +1 to stunning blow and trip.

I lose is 25% damage boost instead of 30% damage boost, I lose barb intimidation, and some toughness enhancements (but my hitpoints only dropped by 5. And I gain all kinds of things... Better tactics, more STR, more extra damage, 20% more DPS when opponent is stunned, full haste boost.

I have no idea why your damage numbers are different... Going by the enhancements, barbarians do MORE damage. There may be a bug, but the enhancements as written are a huge BUFF to barbarian DPS.

[EllisDee37]

then please, build me a horc barb(atleast 12 levels) that gives back my 200-250 base damage and proof me wrong.

Could you list your dps enhancements from live so we can see where that 100+ damage per swing you're missing on lama comes from?

[lyrecono]

Could you list your dps enhancements from live so we can see where that 100+ damage per swing you're missing on lama comes from?

thanks for the help,
I might have been a tad bit peeved when i saw my damage halved but i should have stayed a bit calmer.
I just started working but i will check my enhancements on live and compare them to lam.
then i'll post them here.
i'm currently at work and will be home in 11 hours to check/post stuff

[CoasterHops]

then please, build me a horc barb(atleast 12 levels) that gives back my 200-250 base damage and proof me wrong.
but don't come with this excuse because people have been complaining for years on lamania, forums even youtube vid's about this shotty type of work and have been proven right 90% of the times.
i have tested all the points i mentioned myself (my main has done 27 tr's on lamania since the expansion went beta)
having tried paladin's, monks, barbs, fighters, rangers and a few others, splashes and pure builds combined with several races.
Although i greatly trust my guildies/friends judgement on lamania, i dont post their opinnions.

the only thing i got to work really well was a dwarven defender the rest was broken.

Im struggling to think that you would go through 27 TRs and only find one build that isn't broken, considering you have a 200 - 250 Base damage Barb on live I would have assumed you were better at building toons than that....
Anyways I think I could do 27 different builds on Lammania and make them work, but I'm not entirely sure that I could build a Barb that does 200 - 250 Base damage per hit on live....

[lyrecono]

Im struggling to think that you would go through 27 TRs and only find one build that isn't broken, considering you have a 200 - 250 Base damage Barb on live I would have assumed you were better at building toons than that....
Anyways I think I could do 27 different builds on Lammania and make them work, but I'm not entirely sure that I could build a Barb that does 200 - 250 Base damage per hit on live....

just logging into lamania
not making them work for me, that is, they just felt weak to me
the dwarven tank had 2363 hp, fort/ref saves in the mid 60's, will in the upper 40, 188 ac, prr near 50%dr, high energy absorption(60% from feat&ED, it looked like they stacked)
very high melee threat, con to hit and damage, (70 con) so the base damage was ok.

back to the point, the barb...
i will tr back into a barb asap to test it

[lyrecono]

It's real simple... Look at your enhancements on Live, then compare to enhancements on Lamannia

My half-orc 18/2 barb/fighter has the following enhancements on live

Damage Boost IV (30% damage)
Extra Action Boost
Orc Extra Action Boost II
Sprint Boost I
Fighter Haste Boost I (15% haste)
Extend Rage II (50%)
Extra Rage I
Hardy Rage III (+3 CON)
Power Rage III (+3 STR)
Barb Intimidation
Power Attack III
Orc Power Attack I
Stunning Blow I
Trip I
Orc Melee Damage (+4 with two-handers)
Orc STR II
Orc Toughness II
Barb Toughness II
Barb CON II
Fighter STR I
Frenzied Berzerker III (+2 crit multiplier on 19-20),
Supreme Cleave (2[W])
Frenzy
Death Frenzy (another +1 crit multiplier)


On Lamannia I get

Damage Boost III (25% damage)
Extra Action Boost I (from Kensai)
Extra Action Boost II (from Frenzied Berzerker)
Sprint Boost I
Fighter Haste Boost III (30% haste)
Extend Rage II (50%)
Extra Rage III
Hardy Rage III (+3 CON)
Power Rage III (+3 STR)
Power Attack II (Barb)
Orc Power Attack II
+3 Tactics DCs
Orc Melee Damage (+6 with two-handers)
Orc STR II
Barb CON II
Orc STR +2 when raging
Frenzied Berzerker III (+2 crit multiplier on 19-20),
Supreme Cleave (2[W])
Frenzy
Death Frenzy (another +1 crit multiplier)

So compare those... Both give the +3 crit multiplier on 19-20... Same number of extra Action Boosts, same Hardy Rage and Power rage... Same Extend Rage, Two extra rages instead of one. Same Barb +2 CON, Same half-orc +2 STR. Same Power Attack bonuses. Same Frenzy, Death Frenzy, Supreme Cleave.

Damage Boost is slightly lower, but I go from 15% Haste Boostt to a full 30% Haste Boost.
Half-orc Power Rage gives an extra +2 STR when raging
Half-orc gives +6 to damage when using two-handed weapons instead of +4

Half-orc gives BRUTALITY!!!! (20% damage to stunned opponents) - this stack with Sense weakness?

+3 tactics DCs instead of +1 to stunning blow and trip.

I lose is 25% damage boost instead of 30% damage boost, I lose barb intimidation, and some toughness enhancements (but my hitpoints only dropped by 5. And I gain all kinds of things... Better tactics, more STR, more extra damage, 20% more DPS when opponent is stunned, full haste boost.

I have no idea why your damage numbers are different... Going by the enhancements, barbarians do MORE damage. There may be a bug, but the enhancements as written are a huge BUFF to barbarian DPS.

i have some questions on this:

you spent 24 points on racial enhancements.

that leaves fb line first:

1, die hard, thoughness, frienzied berzerker, power rage and extra rage
thats 12 points spend
2, extra action boost
14 spend
3, supreme cleave, barb con1.
18 spend

how do you pick con boost2, focussed wraith to light up? they need 20 and 30 points spend....


so i spend 3 points in occult slayer, base1 and lasting rage2

i spend a 8 points in ravager, 1 base, 3 hardy rage, 4 in barb power attack

53 spent, 27 to go but no way to get the ones you mentioned without deviating from your list.
i downloaded the picture and blew it up

you forgot to mention:
1, die harder: a horrible enhancement, 15 extra hp on die hard? bobs in EE can easel y do 400+ damage, those 15 hp are worthless past lv 5, maybe 8 if you're gimped.
2, wade in.
3, Exhausting blow, i actually like this one, would have loved it if it would damage con to, to prep for stunning blow.
taking those got me barb con 2

that's 29 points spend, still not enough for focused wraith/frenzied berzerker so i put 1 rank into blood tribute, that opened those up (which strangely allowed me to remove the point in blood tribute???)

took action boost up to 3, now i can take them. thats 33 spend in FB


now for a dps check:

edit, only 100 to 125 base damage on lamania,
still 200-250 damage on live.
same gear, same ED's (maxed on both) not raged, (on live, raged/fz goes up to 400 base)
tested on fresh dummies, kobolds and bugbears in searing heights.
now this may be bugged, but i hope you can understand why i'm a tad bit peeved earlier?
because if i lose 50% damage output it kinda defeats the purpose of a barb (though many claimed the glory days of barbs have long past)

on a side note, the FB tod set doesnt give the stacking +2 to con and str icon in the buff bar, nor the buff it self

[Thrudh]

only 100 to 125 base damage on lamania,
still 200-250 damage on live.
same gear, same ED's (maxed on both) not raged, (on live, raged/fz goes up to 400 base)

All I can tell you is something else is different. Or there's a bug in the enhancements. As written, you can get all the same stuff you have on live.

Not raged? Well all you have going for you on live is Power Attack and STR enhancements, and you can get those exact same enhancements on Lamannia.

I can only think maybe you have shears going on live with 10 different EDs running at once, and you don't on Lamannia, because the enhancements aren't that different.