Post the 2nd round of the enhancement pass already

[Wizza]

Rumors say that the new enhancement pass might come with the Expansion. So post it and let us check the changes you have made. You had 1 month to listen to the players feedbacks. Time to show us the results!

[haulindonkey]

/signed

[Ziindarax]

Wasn't the Beta supposed to have started by now?

[Krelar]

Wasn't the Beta supposed to have started by now?

Is it the 4rd of June already?

[Ziindarax]

Is it the 4rd of June already?

Hmm... Must be..

Looking forward to giving it a spin, but I do hope that they've cleared the character copy so I can copy my main guy Ziind over there, last round kept me from being able to do so as it still said that my guy was already copied over when he wasn't.

[Munkenmo]

I'm hoping the next announcement relating to the enhancement pass is a total overhaul of the stupid thing.

Starting with scrapping the UI.

[Wizza]

Wasn't the Beta supposed to have started by now?

I don't really care about Beta if the Enhancement pass is going to screw our chars. They could give us both at the same time.

[Flavilandile]

Rumors say that the new enhancement pass might come with the Expansion. So post it and let us check the changes you have made. You had 1 month to listen to the players feedbacks. Time to show us the results!

You really expect changes ?
You really expect them to listen to our feedback ?

During Dev chats it was more or less stated that changes, if any would be minor ( cost adjustment and such ) and that nothing important would change despite all the negative feedback.

I would be the first one surprised if they did take time to listen and rebuilt the trees using the existing enhancements ( it's easy, I've done it in 30 minutes for the Radiant Servant Tree, there's a picture of it somewhere in the Cleric Thread ) and then created missing trees to cover 3 PRE for each class.

[Wizza]

You really expect changes ?
You really expect them to listen to our feedback ?

During Dev chats it was more or less stated that changes, if any would be minor ( cost adjustment and such ) and that nothing important would change despite all the negative feedback.

I would be the first one surprised if they did take time to listen and rebuilt the trees using the existing enhancements ( it's easy, I've done it in 30 minutes for the Radiant Servant Tree, there's a picture of it somewhere in the Cleric Thread ) and then created missing trees to cover 3 PRE for each class.

I'm saving my rage for when I actually see them again. I expect nothing but I never say never either.

[EllisDee37]

I'm hoping the devs pretend to forget about the enhancement pass and that whole debacle just kind of goes away.

[Dandonk]

I'm hoping the devs pretend to forget about the enhancement pass and that whole debacle just kind of goes away.

/pray /signed

[dlsidhe]

I'm hoping the devs pretend to forget about the enhancement pass and that whole debacle just kind of goes away.

I don't. But not for the reason that the alpha was particularly awesome (though it was not the DOOOOOOOM some say - well, other than the cleric trees overall, and that nightmare called "Protection" in particular - it needs some serious work).

If I'm correct in my assumption that the current enhancement system is a coding nightmare, I'd rather they recode it so it can be modified and expanded easily. I'd like to see the enhancements take into account the +x[W] damage system. I'd like to see them account for PRR and dodge as defensive abilities.

What we have, right now, is a set of enhancements written for a different game design than currently exists. Evidence, IMHO, points to the current system being unwieldy for the developers to work with generally. Thus, for the system to adapt to the current state of the game, it must be overhauled from square one. That doesn't mean that the Protection tree for divines isn't a blasphemy against all that is good and righteous in the world, or that we don't need more HP in some classes (though NOT TIED TO A FEAT!, please), or that Kensei don't need all their buffs restored, but that things need modification for the overall health of the game.

[EllisDee37]

In the context of health of the game, the existing enhancements, regardless of how outdated, are far better than the artificial and arbritrary three tree system with "points spent in tree" as the main gate. That monstrosity would be far worse for the game, and both of those aspects of it are huge reasons why.

[dlsidhe]

I think you misunderstand me: by "health of the game" I mean "capability for prompt changes and expansions to a system." By what little we've heard about the coding of the current system, the system itself creates obstacles to creating new PrEs or altering existing ones. Regardless of the comparison in usefulness to the new system, if the old system means nothing new, nothing changes, then it's inferior. If the new system is easily modified, then - so far as health of the game goes - it's better because the devs are more capable of responding to player concerns.

The current system has arbitrary limits that we accept because we're used to them - AP spent, level gating, inane prerequisites (why does my dex-based monk need two extra points in tumble to qualify for Ninja Spy? Why do I need another 60SP for AoV II when my FvS has over 3K SP standing?). We're limited to one PrE per class, and the only reason that's not an issue is that for several classes there's only one PrE to start with, or only one worth taking (if any). Like I said previously - the new system needs work, like making the AP spent per tree requirements more reasonable. But, if those are changes that the devs can actually make vs. the current system which - by all dev accounts - is nearly impossible to modify, then I'd prefer a developing system that can be fixed to an outdated system that cannot.

[GermanicusMaximus]

I think you misunderstand me: by "health of the game" I mean "capability for prompt changes and expansions to a system." By what little we've heard about the coding of the current system, the system itself creates obstacles to creating new PrEs or altering existing ones. Regardless of the comparison in usefulness to the new system, if the old system means nothing new, nothing changes, then it's inferior. If the new system is easily modified, then - so far as health of the game goes - it's better because the devs are more capable of responding to player concerns.

The current system has arbitrary limits that we accept because we're used to them - AP spent, level gating, inane prerequisites (why does my dex-based monk need two extra points in tumble to qualify for Ninja Spy? Why do I need another 60SP for AoV II when my FvS has over 3K SP standing?). We're limited to one PrE per class, and the only reason that's not an issue is that for several classes there's only one PrE to start with, or only one worth taking (if any). Like I said previously - the new system needs work, like making the AP spent per tree requirements more reasonable. But, if those are changes that the devs can actually make vs. the current system which - by all dev accounts - is nearly impossible to modify, then I'd prefer a developing system that can be fixed to an outdated system that cannot.

The problem with what you have said here is that the Alpha clearly demonstrated that the current game designers lack the ability to craft anything as good as the current system, even though it is sitting right there as an example that could be used as a starting point.

They apparently need some practice on how to design things, but starting with something that is the heart of the entire game seems to be a poor choice.

If they start "practicing" by dropping iterations on live, how long do you expect people are going to hang around? We've already seen how great things are with the pre release of the casters nerfs.

I'm hoping the devs pretend to forget about the enhancement pass and that whole debacle just kind of goes away.

Given the devs need to save face, this is probably our last, best hope.

/signed

[FlaviusMaximus]

I'm hoping the devs pretend to forget about the enhancement pass and that whole debacle just kind of goes away.

I'm not. The current enhancement system is not user friendly, doesn't have completed prestiges, and is frankly boring at this point. New combinations are welcome and needed, especially a full year after the enhancement update was supposed to happen.

[FlaviusMaximus]

I was mostly happy with the alpha stuff that they had released. More options regarding boosts in different trees are something that would interest me as a person who wants his characters to be as powerful as possible, but all in all I saw many intriguing new combinations and a better system on the way.

As much as I would like to play the same DDO from now until the end of eternity, I think that would be excruciatingly boring. The mechanics are going to change and you are going to have to TR or at the very least LR your "uber" characters that exploit the mechanics of the last year or so. Get over it and start doing some calculations.

[EllisDee37]

I was mostly happy with the alpha stuff that they had released. More options regarding boosts in different trees are something that would interest me as a person who wants his characters to be as powerful as possible, but all in all I saw many intriguing new combinations and a better system on the way.

As much as I would like to play the same DDO from now until the end of eternity, I think that would be excruciatingly boring. The mechanics are going to change and you are going to have to TR or at the very least LR your "uber" characters that exploit the mechanics of the last year or so. Get over it and start doing some calculations.

Yeah, my pale master taking frost manipulation VII and acid manipulation VII to get 100 spell power to ice and acid is a HUGE EXPLOIT!!!! NERF HIM NOW!!!1!!one!!!

Let's not even talk about my paladin and ranger both taking Devotion IV for the 80 spell power. EXPLOIT!!!!

[Wizza]

Yeah, my pale master taking frost manipulation VII and acid manipulation VII to get 100 spell power to ice and acid is a HUGE EXPLOIT!!!! NERF HIM NOW!!!1!!one!!!

Let's not even talk about my paladin and ranger both taking Devotion IV for the 80 spell power. EXPLOIT!!!!

I lol'ed.

Love when people (the poster above you) have no idea what they are talking about.

[dlsidhe]

MajMalphunktion has some info on the enhancement pass:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...with-Major-Mal

To sum up:

* The Cleric lines are getting reworked from square one.
* The Alpha releases were intentionally restrictive/broken to focus feedback on specific aspects.
* The UI is being overhauled along with the content of the enhancements.

So, the current doom can be paused, while we wait for the next round of doom.