noob question about metamagic

[BlueBloody]

I apologize for my bad English.
Usually can I active all meta feats or I just use it for bosses?
Empower, maximize and quiken such a lot of sp. On hard and elite quest I can use shrines just one time. It's a problem for me.
Can someone explain me tactics of magic based char? Thank you.

[EllisDee37]

My wizard doesn't take empower, and rarely uses quicken. Otto's Sphere of Dancing and Negative Energy Burst are both set to always use quicken on my hotbar, but otherwise I don't use quicken at all.

I take Improved Maximizing III (the complete enhancement line) and wear an Efficient Maximize II item. This makes maximize cost 12 spell points.

Consider a damage spell that costs 25 spell points as the base. For me it costs 37 spell points, since I keep maximize on all the time. From what I can gather it would cost you 75 spell points, which is double what it costs me. (25 base + 25 maximize + 15 empower + 10 quicken = 75)

Let's compare level 20 spell power, let's say for cold:

100 frost manipulation VII enhancement
90 glaciation 90 item
15 implement (+5 enhancement bonus)
150 maximize
----
355 spell power = 455% damage
75 empower
----
430 spell power = 530% damage

75/455 = 16.5% more damage from adding Empower Spell
455/530 = 85.8% effectiveness when turning off Empower Spell

When you run with multiple metamagics active, it's hard to justify taking the improved metamagic enhancement lines because they are so expensive. If you only take maximize, it's much easier to justify maxing out the improved meta line as well as equipping an efficient meta item.

For half the cost of casting the spell -- 37 mana compaed to 75 -- I get 86% of the effectiveness and a slower casting animation. Seems well worth it to able to cast twice as many spells.

[BlueBloody]

My wizard doesn't take empower, and rarely uses quicken. Otto's Sphere of Dancing and Negative Energy Burst are both set to always use quicken on my hotbar, but otherwise I don't use quicken at all.

I take Improved Maximizing III (the complete enhancement line) and wear an Efficient Maximize II item. This makes maximize cost 12 spell points.

Consider a damage spell that costs 25 spell points as the base. For me it costs 37 spell points, since I keep maximize on all the time. From what I can gather it would cost you 75 spell points, which is double what it costs me. (25 base + 25 maximize + 15 empower + 10 quicken = 75)

Let's compare level 20 spell power, let's say for cold:

100 frost manipulation VII enhancement
90 glaciation 90 item
15 implement (+5 enhancement bonus)
150 maximize
----
355 spell power = 455% damage
75 empower
----
430 spell power = 530% damage

75/455 = 16.5% more damage from adding Empower Spell
455/530 = 85.8% effectiveness when turning off Empower Spell

When you run with multiple metamagics active, it's hard to justify taking the improved metamagic enhancement lines because they are so expensive. If you only take maximize, it's much easier to justify maxing out the improved meta line as well as equipping an efficient meta item.

For half the cost of casting the spell -- 37 mana compaed to 75 -- I get 86% of the effectiveness and a slower casting animation. Seems well worth it to able to cast twice as many spells.

thank you a lot

[Soulfurnace]

I don't use metas until level 11 (12 on a sorc).. and that's just for quickened reconstruct. Maybe maximize on a boss fight?

After that, depends on the quest. If it has plenty of shrines, I'll drop empower and maximize, if not.. just at the end.

Also depends.. how many sp pots ya wanna drink lol

[Inoukchuk]

I apologize for my bad English.
Usually can I active all meta feats or I just use it for bosses?
Empower, maximize and quiken such a lot of sp. On hard and elite quest I can use shrines just one time. It's a problem for me.
Can someone explain me tactics of magic based char? Thank you.

Are you a sorc or a wiz? For sorcs you will reach a level where you have a lot of SP, it's just a matter of using it wisely (group a bunch of mobs and nuke REALLY hard). For this purpose I strongly recommend using full max and emp on your spells. For a wiz, it's more about area dots and kill spells. For kill spells you absolutely want heighten, but otherwise you can live without the meta's most of the time.

Remember that you can have spells on your hotbar more than once, so you can have hot-keys for Firewall with no meta's, and another hotkey for firewall with full meta's. This is sometimes useful on important spells.

[Sonos]

I use heighten at higher levels. It's pricey but worth it for webs, and otto's resistible dance(don't let the "resistible" part scare you, it lasts twice as long as irresistible and with heighten and decent spell pen, it hits almost all of the time).

[EllisDee37]

I don't use metas until level 11 (12 on a sorc).. and that's just for quickened reconstruct. Maybe maximize on a boss fight?

After that, depends on the quest. If it has plenty of shrines, I'll drop empower and maximize, if not.. just at the end.

Also depends.. how many sp pots ya wanna drink lol

My wizard lives take Maximize at level 9. Also at level 9 they take the first two tiers of improved maximizing, and I also craft them an efficient maximize II (of lore) trinket to wear, meaning maximize costs 15 sp.

I immediately turn maximize on globally and leave it on forevermore.

[Enoach]

In all honesty I generally avoid heavy use of Maximize/Empower until 10th level

The trick that is missed with Metamagic Feats is learning when they are needed and when they are not.

Example:

If fighting large groups of Mobs that can be killed or nearly killed with just your base spell power plus an appropriate Level Potion to enhance your damage (Vendors sell these for various types and come in 5/10/15 Spell Power versions), than adding in 150 spell power and/or 75 spell power will only serve to "Waste Damage" which can be translated to "wasted spell points"

General Rules I use
If it takes 3+ casts without Meta to kill something - Apply Maximize
If it takes 6+ casts without Meta to kill something - Apply Maximize/Empower

*This obviously easier with the Monster Manual to help Judge

The reason for this is because I will utilize the Enhancement Potions as well as gear to gain a boost to damage.

The next rule is to utilize the right spell for the job (easier on a wizard than a sorcerer), target the defense that elicits the fewest saves. However, this also means using a clean up spell to take out the small amount of HP left such as MM or Chain Missiles, as this will cost fewer SP and still get the job done of an additional cast.

The next rule is to only apply quicken to spells that must go off - Generally this is healing options, especially self healing. But could also include "Escape" spells. Also as a general rule I "Turn Quicken Off on all buffs", but that is to help protect me from times where I turned quicken on in the heat of battle.

Utilize the ability to set metas on hotbar. At higher levels as a Sorcerer I set Maximize as always on and Empower to "Standard". This allowed me to maintain the maximized state of the spell and then turn Empower on for a Boost.