Boulder Toss Change is upsetting

[Singular]

The change is a terrible blow to artificers. It's a cornerstone of our dps - all artificers I know use it b/c our force spell power is high.

[sifubob]

It was actually really silly that it counted as a spell, and was increased by force spellpower.

Having a wizard throwing a boulder for more damage than a raging barbarian was silly, especially when they fixed SLA's recently meaning a raging barbarian couldn't even throw it!

all they need to do now, in my opinion, is somehow tie Strength to the damage to properly reflect that it is a boulder, being tossed.

[Wizza]

It was actually really silly that it counted as a spell, and was increased by force spellpower.

Having a wizard throwing a boulder for more damage than a raging barbarian was silly, especially when they fixed SLA's recently meaning a raging barbarian couldn't even throw it!

all they need to do now, in my opinion, is somehow tie Strength to the damage to properly reflect that it is a boulder, being tossed.

You have to use a valuable twist slot to have boulder toss. The dps was fine for casters compared to the effort to have it.

I never used it but this nerf is pretty silly.

[fmalfeas]

It's a sense-makeum!

Throwing rocks is not magic. Spellpower never should have been involved, and that it was is frankly stupid. It's not 'conjure boulder'.

Then again, getting people out of the Primal sphere at all (except into the martial sphere) is like pulling teeth...on a shark, bare handed.

At least Arties still have Arcane Tempest, from Magister. That even makes sense to use your Force spellpower, and is a persistant AoE. More fun that way.

Shortform - good, fix the utter nonsense things. Thumbs up for Turbine!

P.S. - Dear Turbine, while you're fixing nonsense things, please undo nonsense nerfs, such as to FoM, and Warforged/PM immunities. I'm still trying to figure out how a wraith contracts Slimy Doom, or how a Warforged gets affected by spider venom, unless you've neglected to tell us that these are all trained attack spiders who normally only eat trees.

[Singular]

It was actually really silly that it counted as a spell, and was increased by force spellpower.

Having a wizard throwing a boulder for more damage than a raging barbarian was silly, especially when they fixed SLA's recently meaning a raging barbarian couldn't even throw it!

all they need to do now, in my opinion, is somehow tie Strength to the damage to properly reflect that it is a boulder, being tossed.

My artie has 12 str. For me, since it was an sla, it was part of the magic of an ED, not a personal literally picking up a boulder and throwing it. I mean, if that's the case, then it should be utterly tied to str.

Anyways, this change is going to hurt artificers. BT is - was - a great part about playing a force-specced artie. You'd have to time when you used BT, when you used your rune arm and endless fullisade to maximize damage.

This change just makes the class less. Juse less overall. Not only does it change how you'd play with timing and reduce the damage output of an artie, it changes how you'd spec for spells. None of the artie spells do great damage - so, without BT, that pretty much leaves Ruin. But Ruin is hugely mana expensive; it's a last resort.

Now I understand how all those other people running in classes that were nerfed hard felt - totally sucks. I like how I play my artie, liked the 3rd-3rd-3rd (BT-xbow-spells and rune arm) aspect of it.

Lastly, having a crappy boulder toss for everyone isn't going to improve flavor or get melee to use it. It's only going to do something like 1000 damage reliably per shot and never crit. Are melee really going to break their attack routine to bother? Sure, on EN or if you're really careful about kill stealing, maybe. If they're going to change Boulder Toss, they should have upped the damage to something comparable to what we have on live (with most builds using it having over 300 spell power in force +crits) or make it the flavor they seem to want by making it entirely dependent on str - like massive burst damage for high str melee.

Ultimately this change is stupid for everyone and nerfs artificers.

[Qhualor]

It was actually really silly that it counted as a spell, and was increased by force spellpower.

Having a wizard throwing a boulder for more damage than a raging barbarian was silly, especially when they fixed SLA's recently meaning a raging barbarian couldn't even throw it!

all they need to do now, in my opinion, is somehow tie Strength to the damage to properly reflect that it is a boulder, being tossed.

this

[CThruTheEgo]

I'm not surprised by this change, disappointed certainly, but not surprised. I was actually surprised when I first learned that boulder toss was affected by spell power.

At least Arties still have Arcane Tempest, from Magister. That even makes sense to use your Force spellpower, and is a persistant AoE. More fun that way.

In no way can arcane tempest act as a replacement for boulder toss. No arti in their right mind is going to run in magister. It is a horrible destiny that pretty much no one uses as their main ED. Arcane tempest cannot be twisted, costs 30 sp, lasts for only 8 seconds, has a 3 minute(!) cooldown, and has a reflex save. Boulder toss is a tier 1 twist, costs no sp, has a 20 second cooldown, and no save against the damage. There is no comparison here.

[Singular]

I'm not surprised by this change, disappointed certainly, but not surprised. I was actually surprised when I first learned that boulder toss was affected by spell power.



In no way can arcane tempest act as a replacement for boulder toss. No arti in their right mind is going to run in magister. It is a horrible destiny that pretty much no one uses as their main ED. Arcane tempest cannot be twisted, costs 30 sp, lasts for only 8 seconds, has a 3 minute(!) cooldown, and has a reflex save. Boulder toss is a tier 1 twist, costs no sp, has a 20 second cooldown, and no save against the damage. There is no comparison here.

Well said, well said.

If I was in Fury of the Wild right now, I would be shaking and screaming and, with a powerful wrench of my mind, tear a piece of foundation from the floor and hurl it at those responsible for my pain, causing all kinds of damage + my spell power + my crit chance.

Grrraaaarrrr! Oh, wait, I can't use my magic anymore for that. Ok, me with my 12 strength will just pick up a boulder - equal to any picked up by those with 70 str - and throw it at them causing the same amount of damage, each time. Yeah, that makes sense in an MMO designed to replicate a fantasy world and not to replicate some bizarre version of real life. Let's all just pick up massive rocks and throw them at opponents, causing equal damage regardless of our strength.

No, this is a ridiculous nerf aimed at artificers - who already struggle to produce EE dps.

[Seikojin]

It was actually really silly that it counted as a spell, and was increased by force spellpower.

Having a wizard throwing a boulder for more damage than a raging barbarian was silly, especially when they fixed SLA's recently meaning a raging barbarian couldn't even throw it!

all they need to do now, in my opinion, is somehow tie Strength to the damage to properly reflect that it is a boulder, being tossed.

Bolded the logical course. I think this should be done. Maybe not now, but data will prove that is the right course of action.

Or have it do damage per level with a crit chance or some proc to be multiplied by str modifier.

[CThruTheEgo]

if i was in fury of the wild right now, i would be shaking and screaming and, with a powerful wrench of my mind, tear a piece of foundation from the floor and hurl it at those responsible for my pain, causing all kinds of damage + my spell power + my crit chance.

lol!

[Qhualor]

No, this is a ridiculous nerf aimed at artificers - who already struggle to produce EE dps.

This is too funny. What I thought was ridiculous was that wizards and artificers could deal more damage with Boulder Toss than a barbarian could. Now the change is making it more balanced.

[Ancient]

The change is a terrible blow to artificers. It's a cornerstone of our dps - all artificers I know use it b/c our force spell power is high.

What the nerf crowd seems to fail to grasp is that it is upsetting due to game balance reasons, not lore/description reasons. The replacements for boulder toss either do laughable damage or cost excessive mana.

Even with spell power, the damage was below what draconic, blitzers or furyshot was capable of. Nerfing boulder simply makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. It is doubly annoying for me because I was trying to keep a good attitude with my shirdai in the face of radiant force field. I ran von3 yesterday and it procced at least once on dang near every clump of mobs.

I'll adapt and move on, but this change discourages build diversity rather than increase it. Those with the strength to appreciate the lore version have better things to do with their points/time. Those that needed it now have a better option with wild shots (until that gets nerfed too).

[CThruTheEgo]

What the nerf crowd seems to fail to grasp is that it is upsetting due to game balance reasons, not lore/description reasons... snip...

Even with spell power, the damage was below what draconic, blitzers or furyshot was capable of. Nerfing boulder simply makes the rich richer and the poor poorer... snip...

I'll adapt and move on, but this change discourages build diversity rather than increase it.

^This, this, and this. Well said.

[Singular]

This is too funny. What I thought was ridiculous was that wizards and artificers could deal more damage with Boulder Toss than a barbarian could. Now the change is making it more balanced.

Maybe your barbarians struggle to keep up with artificers, and you need a 1000 point damaging boulder toss on your side, but most barbs produce high melee dps. If that's the case, then I can understand why you'd fight for this change. But I'd recommend you ask that BT damage be increased to match what we arties can now, or at least change the ED ability so that the damage output is entirely based on str. Otherwise, no one is going to use it. 1k damage that interrupts your attack sequence isn't going to do anything for you in EE.

[Singular]

What the nerf crowd seems to fail to grasp is that it is upsetting due to game balance reasons, not lore/description reasons. The replacements for boulder toss either do laughable damage or cost excessive mana.

Even with spell power, the damage was below what draconic, blitzers or furyshot was capable of. Nerfing boulder simply makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. It is doubly annoying for me because I was trying to keep a good attitude with my shirdai in the face of radiant force field. I ran von3 yesterday and it procced at least once on dang near every clump of mobs.

I'll adapt and move on, but this change discourages build diversity rather than increase it. Those with the strength to appreciate the lore version have better things to do with their points/time. Those that needed it now have a better option with wild shots (until that gets nerfed too).

Totally.

Yeah, my two favorite classes are my pure shiradi sorc and my pure artie - both hit hard by the recent changes. I run with Prism and COQ off now. 3 past lives wasted. And now a cornerstone of artie damage output made useless for everyone.

[LOOON375]

Sounds to me that it wasn't working as intended, and that now they have fixed it.

Heck, I never even tried using it on ANY of my toons, simply because of the description.

If it was working how Im reading it was working, then it wasn't WAI. It was doing way more than described.

[Qhualor]

Maybe your barbarians struggle to keep up with artificers, and you need a 1000 point damaging boulder toss on your side, but most barbs produce high melee dps. If that's the case, then I can understand why you'd fight for this change. But I'd recommend you ask that BT damage be increased to match what we arties can now, or at least change the ED ability so that the damage output is entirely based on str. Otherwise, no one is going to use it. 1k damage that interrupts your attack sequence isn't going to do anything for you in EE.

im fighting for this change because it makes sense. spell power should have nothing to do with picking up a boulder and throwing it, which is exactly what it is. its nothing personal or that you thinki my barbs dps is lacking and needs a buff. I can tell though that this seems to be your primary go to dps for your artificer. ive come across many artificers that are very good, but don't use Boulder Toss. maybe you should ask other fellow artificers what they are doing differently.

[EllisDee37]

So Wild Shots in shirardi should also ignore spell power, and I guess use dex to add to damage?


...I can't say I would be against that.

[Ancient]

im fighting for this change because it makes sense. spell power should have nothing to do with picking up a boulder and throwing it, which is exactly what it is. its nothing personal or that you thinki my barbs dps is lacking and needs a buff. I can tell though that this seems to be your primary go to dps for your artificer. ive come across many artificers that are very good, but don't use Boulder Toss. maybe you should ask other fellow artificers what they are doing differently.

Maybe those artificers could have been better.

[Singular]

im fighting for this change because it makes sense. spell power should have nothing to do with picking up a boulder and throwing it, which is exactly what it is. its nothing personal or that you thinki my barbs dps is lacking and needs a buff. I can tell though that this seems to be your primary go to dps for your artificer. ive come across many artificers that are very good, but don't use Boulder Toss. maybe you should ask other fellow artificers what they are doing differently.

I'm among the highest dps arties on my server. I've only been outkilled twice by another artie, I solo EEs without issue, I constantly steal aggro from the best hate tanks. Yes, BT is a cornerstone of my build. It's synergistic with force specked arties. We have Ruin, but that's extremely expensive. Otherwise, nothing else offers what BT does for FotW arties.

I've never run across an artie who could produce good damage who didn't run in Fury, and hence use BT. Any artie running in any other ED is second rate dps - they might be ok CC in Shiradi, and have good survivability in Shadowdancer, but they're not high dps.

Not having BT is going to bring arties down from being able to compete with top melee and further the distance between us an top monkchers. My current build can produce about 22k burst damage in 4 seconds; monkchers do about 40k. Not having BT is going to knock about 6-9k from that; having it at 1k is just going to worsen my attack b/c it'll interrupt my sequence to scratch some mob.

Every destiny is supposed to have something for every class. Boulder Toss was the best part of Fury for casters, next being primal scream.

Your argument that BT shouldn't be boosted by spell power because that's just not real fails for two reasons. First, it's silly. This is a game about fantasy - you can't say "well, in real life, when you toss a boulder, you're picking it up" because this isn't real life. Second, BT can be done regardless of strength, it doesn't change the environment, it works in every environment (you never get a message saying "there are no stones around" like you should in certain environments of certain quests, where there are no walls, no stones) - and, after the change, it's still going to be able to be performed by any character of any strength, but now the damage will suck.

If you were bring your position to its end point, you should be arguing that str should be made to affect BT damage. And I would be ok with that, if they came out with a comprehensive explanation of what BT is - and, more importantly, b/c we've had it in our builds for so long and it is part of the foundation that keeps our dps comparable to top melee and arcane, replace it with something comparable.

As it stands, all they are doing is weakening artificers by making BT useless for everyone. Other arcanes will simply use their spells more and few melee - no top dps melee - would bother to use the future, mediocre Boulder Toss.