So... Anyone else with a dead build now?

[FZTopaz]

I've given examples, did the math and explained why my builds are dead in the current version of the pass.

Sorry if I'm not very good at sugarcoating, also you say to post in a "fair, respectable, calm and informative fashion" and in the same breath used the words "the ranting of entitled, know-it-all brats" to speak of people who disagree with you.

Might wanna do what you preach there...

I have no problems with people disagreeing with me. At all. I welcome opposing arguments that, again, have examples, screenshots...ANYTHING to support their argument. Unfortunately, the majority of hte posts that are against it are nothing but whining. It's undeniable.

[EllisDee37]

I have no problems with people disagreeing with me. At all. I welcome opposing arguments that, again, have examples, screenshots...ANYTHING to support their argument. Unfortunately, the majority of hte posts that are against it are nothing but whining. It's undeniable.

Yes, but your post was an example of whiny know-it-all brattiness by virtue of using the phrase "whiny know-it-all brats."

[CoasterHops]

At first I viewed the Alpha with trepidation, yes I see some current builds being gimped, but I also see alot of promise with the new system.

There is an issue at end game now where there are three builds that are the goto builds for end game players.
These three builds are:
-Monkchers
-Juggernauts
-Shiradi Specc'd casters

Why is everyone playing these three builds at current end game?

The answer is simple, the Class/ED combos are the most powerful on live at present, so sure we have choice to essentially build what we want, but when everyone is building and playing the same three class/build with slight variants combos at end game do we really have as much freedom as we think we do?

For all those people that don't think Monkchers need a lil toning down...... theres a saying in New Zealand, "Yeah Right..."

Anyway the other side if the coin is what incentive are we going to get to fix toons that have multiple lives and gear that we have farmed and built for over the years?
Personally I believe we are going to need +20 Hearts with a race change option too, I don't mind current builds getting broken if they implement:
1. More and varied builds than on live.
2. The ability (at no cost) to fix toons without having to TR.

Disclaimer: I am not at present running any of the FotM builds that are goto at end game, I do have 14 toons though and I absolutely love having build options, they give us more of these and I will be happy.

[Lerincho]

Deafening,

Well I was finally able to get into Lamannia, and as promised wanted to share my thoughts. I can completely see what you are saying about the racial enhancements causing some issues (we are ignoring AP costs right now); however with the ability to add in other class enhancements that would have previously been unavailable, I do not see how a good alternative cannot be found. I will keep in mind that 8 of my 10 characters are pure classes and most prefer multiclassing. This is just my opinion, and I certainly will respectfully disagree with the doom sentiment.

The one major change that I think should happen with the racial enhancements, is that tree is able to see the AP sent in the other tree for prerequisite considerations. What I mean is that if I have 15 spent in tree 1 and and 5 in tree 2, I should be able to get a race enhancement that require 10 or 20 points spent (excluding skills that prereq itself (the fun arrows)).

[DeafeningWhisper]

Deafening,

Well I was finally able to get into Lamannia, and as promised wanted to share my thoughts. I can completely see what you are saying about the racial enhancements causing some issues (we are ignoring AP costs right now); however with the ability to add in other class enhancements that would have previously been unavailable, I do not see how a good alternative cannot be found. I will keep in mind that 8 of my 10 characters are pure classes and most prefer multiclassing. This is just my opinion, and I certainly will respectfully disagree with the doom sentiment.

The one major change that I think should happen with the racial enhancements, is that tree is able to see the AP sent in the other tree for prerequisite considerations. What I mean is that if I have 15 spent in tree 1 and and 5 in tree 2, I should be able to get a race enhancement that require 10 or 20 points spent (excluding skills that prereq itself (the fun arrows)).

Good, I really think it's a shame that so many simply can't even log in to Lamland at the moment.

Glad you agree that I'm not insane (okay not *completely* insane), the racial class pre-reqs is really the biggest problem with the pass for me.

I started another thread with more neutral language here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=415289.


Thou as I fear, no one comments in that one, one way or another.

[Lerincho]

Good, I really think it's a shame that so many simply can't even log in to Lamland at the moment.

Glad you agree that I'm not insane (okay not *completely* insane), the racial class pre-reqs is really the biggest problem with the pass for me.

I started another thread with more neutral language here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=415289.


Thou as I fear, no one comments in that one, one way or another.

Give the other thread time. Now as we see the costs are dropping in week 2, I do not think this will fix your issue as well. I do think that if they allowed only the racial tree to view total APs spent in any tree it would solve your issue.

[Ryiah]

The Devs said that they WANT our feedback, they NEED our feedback.

What they truly want is useful feedback. A lot of doom with no real information alongside it is almost useless.

[Cetus]

At first I viewed the Alpha with trepidation, yes I see some current builds being gimped, but I also see alot of promise with the new system.

There is an issue at end game now where there are three builds that are the goto builds for end game players.
These three builds are:
-Monkchers
-Juggernauts
-Shiradi Specc'd casters

Why is everyone playing these three builds at current end game?

The answer is simple, the Class/ED combos are the most powerful on live at present, so sure we have choice to essentially build what we want, but when everyone is building and playing the same three class/build with slight variants combos at end game do we really have as much freedom as we think we do?

For all those people that don't think Monkchers need a lil toning down...... theres a saying in New Zealand, "Yeah Right..."

.

I don't have any of these builds and I'd like to modestly say that in my opinion, I pwn content just as well, if not better, with the builds I enjoy.

Monkchers don't need toning down, why would you punish people for recognizing a useful class split?

[frankzro1]

Seems like this skill tree being implemented is coming directly from the beta tests in NeverWinter over on Perfectworld's site...

The skill tress are some what similar to Neverwinter and I am wondering if they are using those beta results and feed backs as a way to "Upgrade" ( Downgrade) this game. The skill trees are ok, but they should just be an optional way to play as in, you chose a path instead of a customization for your character and now that guy is using a skill tree instead. Easy for the new guys to get into building characters, but DDO is not about having the strongest guy really, its about understanding what you are playing.

I see a lot of new guys treat DDO like its WoW and they fail at the game play in general because they do not understand the mechanics and know when they need to to do certain things.

This skill tree ill not fix that! It will only make things even more complicated for new players because us frequent players took the time to understand what the game is all about. Yes playing DDO takes time , but once you get it its even more fun and does not get boring making custom builds... there are so many possibilities for build and for you guys to take that from the game would just kill us! Think about what you have now and know that what you have now is unique, which is why most of us have been playing for years.

Don't kill off your fans by tossing in generic functions guys

[Aussir]

What they truly want is useful feedback. A lot of doom with no real information alongside it is almost useless.

I left suggestions already in another thread and it would be pointless to spam every enhancement pass thread with them. I filled those horribly created surveys (Which 3 I like or dislike most? Really Turbine?) and crammed those places where I could write...

There's nothing else I can do and while I'm not going about screaming "DoOOOoOOOM", I will reiterate that they have to change the way this is built if it is to work. The perfect scenario would be:

- Keep the current enhancements and ADD to them.
- 1 big class tree where we choose what we want like we do now.
- 1 racial tree.
- No "X number of AP's per tree" but " X number of AP's used" in general.
- Lower AP costs.
- Get rid of useless pre-reqs

This would make the new system versatile, wouldn't bork people's builds so much and i would leave room to add the rest of the PrE's later on.

I didn't go much into the cleric and artificer because I don't play those classes and only toyed around with them a bit. However, I saw entire enhancement lines gone from the cleric, which isn't good. I'm sure that those playing clerics are more qualified than me to talk about it.

Ranger and Fighter are two of my 4 main classes. I don't build FotM, I don't play those funky ED combos that are the current FotM.
What I can say is that, while looking at the current Ranger/Fighter trees, I ran some math on my head and scribbled on paper... and this happened:

- on 2 of my characters, I ran out of trees before I could even get to the third class trees.
- on most of my characters, I ran out of AP's before getting 2/3's of what I have now with 80 AP's.

This... is not good. And I'm pulling my hairs out while waiting for the Sorcerer... I don't even know if I want to see what happened to them...

There is an issue at end game now where there are three builds that are the goto builds for end game players.
These three builds are:
-Monkchers
-Juggernauts
-Shiradi Specc'd casters

I don't have any of these builds and don't intend to get them any time soon. If someone doesn't like that my sorcerer is dragon instead of shiradi, I have a finger here for them.

[Postumus]

I don't have any of these builds and don't intend to get them any time soon. If someone doesn't like that my sorcerer is dragon instead of shiradi, I have a finger here for them.

Ha ha ha. Very nice.

[Davelfus]

There is an issue at end game now where there are three builds that are the goto builds for end game players.
These three builds are:
-Monkchers
-Juggernauts
-Shiradi Specc'd casters

Love this crazy stuff ppl make up on the forums... at least on ghallanda, thats totaly not what you only see at end game. (and have yet to see one of those builds being thaaaat OP as ppl make them be...)

[Arnhelm]

I finally got into Lamannia today. I attempted to replicate my current rogue build for Ghaelii. I was unable to do so due to the structure, cost, and types of enhancements now available under the proposed system.

The gating cost per tree is too high. I agree with those who have requested the overall AP points spent be used for this structure, rather than the per-tree cost of AP points spent.

I fear I will find all of my current builds, all pure builds by the way, are broken beyond repair. Also, after reviewing the basic system, I stand by my first statement regarding these proposed changes - This is not a game-changing system, it is a whole new game system.

[CoasterHops]

Love this crazy stuff ppl make up on the forums... at least on ghallanda, thats totaly not what you only see at end game. (and have yet to see one of those builds being thaaaat OP as ppl make them be...)

Its not what you only see at end game, but on Khyber there is a definate shift towards these builds for fast, solo, shortman or no healer Epic Elites.
Of course there are alot of other toons running around, but theres also a reason why many powergamers are gravitating to these type of builds.

Like I said though, I hope the enhancement pass is going to give us more options, so I am starting to think the changes will be a positive in regards to build choices.

[Aussir]

This... is not good. And I'm pulling my hairs out while waiting for the Sorcerer... I don't even know if I want to see what happened to them...

A couple of posts ago, I said that...

Now I can say: Turbine has managed to kill even my pure sorcerer. Actually, they managed to kill the whole class.

You go Turbine!

[SealedInSong]

Which is to say...any archmage that's not an idiot or playing an extreme flavor build.

I have an evoconjurer and an illusionenchantress.

Now they're both having an arm chopped off.

[Aussir]

Which is to say...any archmage that's not an idiot or playing an extreme flavor build.

I have an evoconjurer and an illusionenchantress.

Now they're both having an arm chopped off.

My sorcerer is a necroevoker... take your guesses what happens to her with this "pass"... pass indeed... of gas...

I can't even think of a sentence involving this enhancement pass that isn't full of cussing... it has been a while ever since something in a game ****ed me this much...

[Ziindarax]

My sorcerer is a necroevoker... take your guesses what happens to her with this "pass"... pass indeed... of gas...

I can't even think of a sentence involving this enhancement pass that isn't full of cussing... it has been a while ever since something in a game ****ed me this much...

I feel your pain; Favored Souls are now shoehorned into being offensive/defensive casters, with no option for buffing their healing via class enhancements. Furthermore, they don't seem to have ANY enhancements for boosting their effectiveness with the preferred weapon of the class' patron diety. I will probably need to TR before the changes come into effect on Live.

That all being said, the Soul Survivor Warforged that ultimately turned out to be a rather impressive build toward Epic levels with Destinies has now become a rather dead build - although he'd be able to now cast the cleric defensive capstone (in theory), I am not a buffbot, and will not play as such (and his offensive casting was already weak by pure casting standards BEFORE the removal of spell power lines). Juggernaught's looking like the go-to build for my next life. Or something.

[Aussir]

I feel your pain; Favored Souls are now shoehorned into being offensive/defensive casters, with no option for buffing their healing via class enhancements. Furthermore, they don't seem to have ANY enhancements for boosting their effectiveness with the preferred weapon of the class' patron diety. I will probably need to TR before the changes come into effect on Live.

That all being said, the Soul Survivor Warforged that ultimately turned out to be a rather impressive build toward Epic levels with Destinies has now become a rather dead build - although he'd be able to now cast the cleric defensive capstone (in theory), I am not a buffbot, and will not play as such (and his offensive casting was already weak by pure casting standards BEFORE the removal of spell power lines). Juggernaught's looking like the go-to build for my next life. Or something.

Turbine has the gall to say that they don't want to kill classes and multi-classes... and yet, they are killing every single class in the game, pure or not.

I will say this again: If I'm going to be forced into dumb roles and broken classes, I don't need DDO anymore and I'll be moving my money to the competition... I heard there's some Pigeon-Hole Neverwinter Online begging for my money....

[Lyria]

After copying a couple of my chars over and playing around with them...

* Bard/Ranger/Rogue Arcane Archer
Well, can't fully test this as the bard enhs aren't there yet. However, one GLARING bug I've found is that if you have ranger levels, you can't select the elven arcane archer tree to pick from. It forces you to take the ranger one. So I can't really test anything here.

* Wizard/Rogue
As I was more or less a single-spec archmage, I'm of two minds about the changes. On one hand, I lost a TON of spellpower, which is more than a bit frustrating. On the other hand, I can dump enough points into pale master while still keeping all my archmage abilities that I feel like I gained some nice abilities (including an epic skelly pet). However, trying to summon the skelly pet crashes the client, so I can't actually test it out.

* Druid
Again, lost a bit of spellpower, but not as much due to how the +sp stuff was for druids. The ability to have nearly the entire seasons' herald tree AND get enough points to get reaving roar from shifter was pretty neat. Of course, being drow my racial abilities were kind of crappy as far as benefiting a druid goes. So on live, I'd probably be tempted to turn her into a half-elf, which would cut into the shifter tree.

Once the rest of the trees start propagating over I'll tinker around some more. Overall, I'm on the fence about it. I dislike their choice of spellcrafting/healing/perform, as it kind of screws some classes over, and forces people to put points into int (especially for clerics and favored souls) if they don't want to be kind of screwed on spell power (and worse if they're a splash like cleric/rogue or cleric/arti).

We'll see. I haven't seen anything character-breaking yet, but there are some things I'm definitely concerned about. Also noticed that most of the +hp stuff is gone from races and classes, so people are going to lose a chunk of hp, especially at low levels.