The Official Fighter Enhancements Discussion Thread!

[Cetus]

So it looks like we still only have the Kensei and Stalwart Defender trees? Nothing for fighters who want to specialize in TWF (or even THF, for that matter)? And/or those who want to remain "generalized" and not tied to a specific weapon (kensei)?

Fighters are so versile in the type of builds available (arguably *the* most versatile class), shouldn't we have more than just "weapon specialized (kensei)" and "Sword and Board (stalwart)" trees available?

Seems really, really short-sighted, to me.

not to mention blatantly IGNORED by all of the developers.

Feedback is useless like this

[patang01]

First off - there's little change for my Kensei Fighter. But there are great changes to my stalwart. I do dual wielding for DPS with him with the option of going full turtle. But since they currently share the same capstone my tank has at least some additional DPS.

Now it won't. In fact with the general loss of DPS since so much have to be invested in the stalwart tree to be viable and with the loss of the doublestrike capstone my tank is now simply a turtle. Little if any viable dps with the ability to sword and board.

This is not flexibility - this is to force everyone into classes. And when there's little flexibility to mix and match you get fewer and more limited results.

So for my Kensei fighter they've added a few more clickies, none which really adds much since my DPS seems unchanged by large parts. And for my stalwart I lose tons of dps.

And please, get rid of the horrid 'spent in tree'. It's very regressive and limiting. 'Spent in tree' should be for few things. Not everything.

[maddmatt70]

First off - there's little change for my Kensei Fighter. But there are great changes to my stalwart. I do dual wielding for DPS with him with the option of going full turtle. But since they currently share the same capstone my tank has at least some additional DPS.

Now it won't. In fact with the general loss of DPS since so much have to be invested in the stalwart tree to be viable and with the loss of the doublestrike capstone my tank is now simply a turtle. Little if any viable dps with the ability to sword and board.

This is not flexibility - this is to force everyone into classes. And when there's little flexibility to mix and match you get fewer and more limited results.

So for my Kensei fighter they've added a few more clickies, none which really adds much since my DPS seems unchanged by large parts. And for my stalwart I lose tons of dps.

And please, get rid of the horrid 'spent in tree'. It's very regressive and limiting. 'Spent in tree' should be for few things. Not everything.

my sword and board is going to be a kensai 5 with a lot of points spent into stalwart as well. Really do not lose much defense if any by doing so and maintain the offense and perhaps even increase it. Really you should do the same with your turtle build primary kensai second stalwart.

Now offensive kensai especially pure seems at a huge disadvantage especially with the stance for stalwart and shields and all. Figure most twf or thf kensai will splash really unavoidable. I suppose a kensai could spend a lot of points into their racial tree, but the racial trees seem fairly inefficient so painful.

[robwanna]

i have take the exotic enhancement (kensei) and have not the profeciency for my bastards...bug ???

[Rae_Rae]

my sword and board is going to be a kensai 5 with a lot of points spent into stalwart as well. Really do not lose much defense if any by doing so and maintain the offense and perhaps even increase it. Really you should do the same with your turtle build primary kensai second stalwart.

Now offensive kensai especially pure seems at a huge disadvantage especially with the stance for stalwart and shields and all. Figure most twf or thf kensai will splash really unavoidable. I suppose a kensai could spend a lot of points into their racial tree, but the racial trees seem fairly inefficient so painful.

This is exactly what I'll be doing on my new tank. Deep into the Kensai tree, deep into the dwarf tree, tier 4 of the SD tree, and just a smidge in monk for 5% amp +3 intim and 10% hate.

[EllisDee37]

And please, get rid of the horrid 'spent in tree'. It's very regressive and limiting. 'Spent in tree' should be for few things. Not everything.

Ideally only for core abilities. Everything "in trees" should be total AP spent, with (of course) the AP gates for the various tiers jacked way up since any AP spent anywhere would unlock them.

[Nikered]

I like the design of the enhancement tree and the enhancements. It's really great improvement.

[thor360]

Weapon spec tree is not available like how it should be. I tried to make a monk build with 6 Fighter, but it seems you need a level 8 Fighter feat to fill the tree, so therefore you cannot make a Centered monk/fighter unless you have 8 Fighter.

[Teh_Troll]

Weapon spec tree is not available like how it should be. I tried to make a monk build with 6 Fighter, but it seems you need a level 8 Fighter feat to fill the tree, so therefore you cannot make a Centered monk/fighter unless you have 8 Fighter.

I'm failing to see a problem here.

[thor360]

Tier 5 enhancements should be available at level 5 of the class, therefore it is an issue.

[ComicRelief]

Tier 5 enhancements should be available at level 5 of the class, therefore it is an issue.

Tier level does not, and never has as far as I know, equate to class level. I suppose there may be some exceptions. Besides, this is the fighter tree, not the monk tree. You want the highest level of fighter enhancements? put in the requiste fighter levels. Not to mention you're limited to only ONE set of tier 5 enhancements, not all of them in any event.

But then, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid to read it - nothing.

[EllisDee37]

Tier level does not, and never has as far as I know, equate to class level.

Tier level does and always has equate to class level. Tier 1 requires 1 level in that class, tier 2 requires 2 levels in that class, etc.. All the way up to tier 5, which requires 5 levels in that class. This applies to all trees for all classes, and there are no exceptions. Except, apparently, for kensei.

[ComicRelief]

Tier level does and always has equate to class level. Tier 1 requires 1 level in that class, tier 2 requires 2 levels in that class, etc.. All the way up to tier 5, which requires 5 levels in that class. This applies to all trees for all classes, and there are no exceptions. Except, apparently, for kensei.

Hmmm...OK; mea culpa.

Butt then, that's what weasel words like "as far as I know" are for.

[Carpone]

Tier level does and always has equate to class level. Tier 1 requires 1 level in that class, tier 2 requires 2 levels in that class, etc.. All the way up to tier 5, which requires 5 levels in that class. This applies to all trees for all classes, and there are no exceptions. Except, apparently, for kensei.

Agreed. Kensei needs to be consistent with all other enhancement trees. The enhancement system is already extremely complicated. Exceptions lead to confusion and confusion needs to be eliminated within game design.

Turbine could instead focus on making Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feats meaningful. Change the Weapon Focus feats to +% hit, and Weapon Specialization feats to +% damage. Now it's worth taking 8 Fighter, not because we're 'forced' to.

[Psiandron]

Turbine could instead focus on making Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feats meaningful. Change the Weapon Focus feats to +% hit, and Weapon Specialization feats to +% damage. Now it's worth taking 8 Fighter, not because we're 'forced' to.

Yeah, I'd be happy to see that.

Personally, I don't like the way they opened Kensei up. Imo, it's supposed to be about complete dedication to a single weapon. It breaks the idiom. I didn't really mind though that the game allowed you to switch weapon types with no xp penalty. There are bound to be modifications to adapt the game to a new environment (not pnp). Anywho, I'd just like for Turbine to at least put something in that makes it more attractive for Kensei to focus on a particular weapon.

Also, fighter really does nees more PREs.

Fighter is a very simple class, even in pnp. It allows therefore for a multitude of different possibilities. Off the cuff, I'd say that there have been more kits and prestige classes written for fighter in pnp than any other class. Rogue has quite a few also, but fighter does have a ton. Turbine should break down and code at least one more PRE into the class. If done well, I think that that would allow for a lot more freedom of design for us to build our fighter toons.

[Cetus]

To piggy back on the point made above with regard to more PrE's

Part of the reason why splashing a fighter is inevitable also has to do with the relatively poor enhancement choices available in addition to the kensei tree (the better stalwart stuff comes in at later tiers, and requires a shield..Eccckk).

If I'm building a dps fighter, I have all of these AP's hanging around after I take what i want from kensei and the little that I find useful out of the racial abilities. What is there left to do with my AP's? The logical thing is to splash the build, open up for DPS oriented trees, and then feed my remaining AP's into those trees.

If fighter had other trees that provide interesting perks, then splashing would be less of an obvious choice. Couple that with the removal/improvement of the weapon focus feats, and now we have a super solid class that players can tinker with.

[masterzzan]

ok 1st thing, i did not go into the beta server. so all i can go with is the info in the wiki and here.

so, i have a stalwert defender III level 18 fighter \2 artificer. the SD pre cost me 8 action points. for them i got :
"Your defensive mastery is complete. In addition to the bonuses of Stalwart Defender I and II, this prestige enhancement increases your armor class by 1, grants +2 to your intimidate skill, increases your maximum dexterity bonus allowed by medium or heavy armor and shields, and grants additional armor class and damage reduction when blocking with a shield. In addition, when you have a one handed melee weapon and shield equipped, your physical resistance is upgraded from 15 to 20, and you now generate 75% additional threat with melee attacks. You may expend a use of Fighter action boost to to enter a defensive stance." and
"You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +6 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, +20% maximum hit points, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, 20 physical resistance, and a 40% bonus to Armor Class from armor and shields. You also gain a 75% Competence bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move 10% slower. "

now it seems you can not get all the +6 to str\con and the 20% health since you need to pick one of them. AND breaking the powers down there is no way it will cost you 8 ap for this pre(if i counted correctly getting most of the pre abilities will cost close to 18 ap. i hope im wrong.)

so unless you get X3 ap per level this is a major nerf. not to mention the +40 hp you can take if you have toughness that is gone now. not to mention the haste boost that is gone etc...

i play ddo because i can get a complicated toon. my level 25 (18\2\5 fighter\arti\epic) can range,tank,disable and pick locks. not to mention have a ton of hp (1390-1542 depend on stance). making this tree to simplify the classes is not a turn on it is a turn-off for me. i tried the Neverwinter online game and run away after 3 days, you know why? all their classes do about the same thing. with minor changes to them.
now you bring that to ddo in the name of making it less complicated.
well if i wanted a less complicated game id play pac-man.
please don't put this "new and improved" enhancement project without getting a close look at ALL the classes. at the total gain and lose there is .because i for one will have a major nerf once this tree thingy go online.(also, what happened to the hp enhancements for the races? really took them off like that?).

again i did not in fact tried the online beta. if my info is off run me out. but i fear im right about the ap alarmingly high cost of the new pre.

[Henshaw135]

Didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but the Ascetic Training: Agility in the Kensei tree doesn't affect the Dodge Cap at all. Tested both with Improved Mobility, and without.

[rimble]

Didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but the Ascetic Training: Agility in the Kensei tree doesn't affect the Dodge Cap at all. Tested both with Improved Mobility, and without.

I came here looking for a comment regarding this...so, /seconded. Super basic Level 7 Halfling Fighter, took just enough enhancements to get straight up to Agility, Dodge Cap didn't change. No other enhancements in any other tree have been taken. Relogged, no change.

[Henshaw135]

Didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but the Ascetic Training: Agility in the Kensei tree doesn't affect the Dodge Cap at all. Tested both with Improved Mobility, and without.

Sorry for quoting myself, but has anybody tested if this enhancement works now? I'm continuously running out of platinum testing things and resetting trees (also because of bugs), so can't check it myself at the moment.