Need newbie advice on Paladin build.

[Jalgratas]

Ok the backstory. Well I have played for about 2 years, on and off. But ive always been a caster-ish type of guy. So far I only had 1 toon that had 2 lives of wizard is currently artificer. Recently I found out that one of my irl friends plays ddo but we were in different servers so we decided to reroll in a new server so we can play together. I rolled a paladin. The thing is Ive never played a melee oriented class and my knowledge is lackluster in almost every aspect. The arti life I have on my main is focused more on blade barriers, tactical detonations and rune arm spamming.

My paladin is currently lvl 14 ..... but i have problems in general with him. Due to the fact taht i bought motu i got once per character per server tome of learning in him and that is the main reason why I will refuse to reroll him. For me the price is too high. I want to keep that tome in his head. Also because the cahracter was created on some ddo birthday days i got from the birthday box +2 dex and it is already in his head. I dont have the lesser incarnation available anymore. But I do have the lockania feat swap available. As I cant pretty much afford anything right now to buy for TP because I want to save up for high road of shadows pack which is the last content locked for me. Everything else is unlocked. Since we rolled in new server im poor so I cant afford anything major ingame wise.

So what does he have right now? Currently lvl 14

28 pt build
Stats on creation were:
16 STR - all lvl ups went here
15 DEX (+2 tome)
12 CON
8 INT
14 CHA

Feats so far taken:
1 Toughness
1 Power Attack
3 Two Weapon Fighting
6 Cleave
9 Improved Critical Slash
12 Improved Two Weapon Fighting

The original plan was to take Greater Two Weapon at lvl 15 and Greater Cleave at 18 to qualify for Overwhelming Critical. Originally the plan was going with the tradeoff of losing Khopesh Proficiency for longswords and trying to get Overwhelming Critical in the end. 14 CHA only for first rank of Divine Might and plan is to take constitution tome once i hit 1750 favor.

Skills the 2 per level are spent all in concentration and use magic device. I dont run with quicken or extend so concentration seemed a good choice so far and i refuse to lose use magic device. I just refuse it,

My partner plays sorc so greater heroism, blur, haste, and rage and such things are pretty much always available to me. I dont play this toon unless he is online so assume those are available to me 100% of time.

Now my problem comes down to surviving. We do quests depending if other people want to join or if we are alone then 2 hires. We dont pack a trapper unless its a random guy joining. Now he plays his sorc well but me.... I suck. I die to literally everything. Traps, spells and stuff tend to instapop me, if a mob even sneezes at me ill be there lying on the floor begging my buddy to do a shrine run and hear hi laughing on voice comms.

My playstyle: Currently I just keep divine might (or whats it called), zeal and divine favor up all the time. Im pretty good at keeping them up 99% of time. Otherwise, I hit right click on mob and then spam sunder, trip and cleave. For red names and bosses I spam exhalted smites in there as well. I pack mostly cure serious wands for topping off between fights. Most of my sp ends up in buff upkeep not heals. That should be pretty much it.

Gearwise i have 2 maces with a form of holy for undead beating and 2 longswords from relic of sovereign past for everything else. Took the longswords because they have 1.5 dice modifier which seemed nice at lvl 9. Especially because i dont have green steel stuff. Min lvl 13 random loot cloak with toughness, +5 health belt (+1 from human adapt gives breakpoint). 20 hp false life from nightforge bracers, some random armor with deathblock, nightforge neklace for heavy fort, sora kell set but not upgraded for 2 to hit and 2 to damage and the 40 sp for heals and wis to cast, cha for save (human greater adapt currently rounds off for 1 extra save) and of course str (taking all level ups so far has given uneven number so the +5 from maeyna rounds up for +1 hit and damage). 30% striding boots, lvl 12 stalker ring from cannith challenges for exceptional +1 sneak damage and manslayer, goggles are the red fens +4 reflex saves ones which name i cant remember. Trinket is voice of the master for +1 to saves.

Since I havent bee able to survive I have been considering some levels of monk for evasion. Maybe 2 or maybe more. I dont know. Im askin you guys. Should I do it? For example one idea i had was 6 levels of monk and take shintao maybe something like this:

15 Weapon Focus: Slash to qualify for whirling steel strike
15 Monk - Whirling Steel Strike (Longswords)
16 Monk - Stunning Fist (Shintao Pre requirement)
18 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
20 Monk - Dodge/Another Toughness maybe?
21 Greater Cleave
24 Overwhelming Critical

Of course im open to only 2 levels of monk, being pure, taking other classes though i see no point in rogue as i doubt ill get decent skill levels.

So im looking for advice on character build - what to do, empahsis on survivability not dps, im fine with hitting like paper towel as long as I stay alive for long period of time
I havent played melee before so gear advice, aside from obvious greensteel, what should I be looking out for? Some easy to acquire gear suggestions, like relic of sovereign past gear or atack on stormreach gear like sora kell set is super easy to get. Are there other good stuff out there?
Playstyle: Am I missing something? Do I need to change some tactics? How to handle different situations?
Im not up for rerolling though.
End result should be toon that is useful in endgame content and if lucky able to farm some epic hards maybe.Wheter with a hire.

[karl_k0ch]

The main asset of a paladin over other melees is not the DPS (it's rather horrible), but rather the surviability. I'd look into emphasizing that part and not only the damage part. If you play with a Sorc, he will be the guy who DPSes, and you are probably of best use by binding mobs (trip and tactics are surely an option) while staying alive on your own.

I think that Divine Might is one of the greatest DPS increases a paladin has access to, especially on a twf build. I'd try to get more than just DM I.
How are your funds to buy a +2 cha tome at the AH? (I'd even consider to get a +3 tome and spend the level 16 stat point on cha)
If you don't have a really high charisma, there is only little reason to stay pure, and splashing monk can make sense due to the extra feats and evasion. This is what I did with my paladin who ended up with an 18/2 split.

If you're thinking to splash monk, I wouldn't spend the extra feat on WSS, but rather use handwraps.

For my paladin, I decided to spend the extra feats on Maximize and Quicken, in order to make self-casted Cure Serious Wounds an option which which I can heal him in a reliable way. On that toon, this CSW is however fueled by a Torc and a ConcOpp GS item, to make sure I don't run out of blue juice. I cannot tell you how long the blue bar is going to last without that, so I'm not going to suggest this option as a quick improvement measure.

Taking the Hunter of the Dead PrE offers better self-healing, too: Better healing Amp and more Lay on Hands will make it easier to keep yourself alive.

I think that the dodge feat is an option to increase your chances to survive.

I'm wondering: How successful are you with your trip and other tactics? How reliable do you hit mobs? How reliable are you going to be with your stunning fist/blow?

I wouldn't invest more feats into increasing your DPS, but rather look into defensive options as well.

Based on your initial feat and class progression, here's what one could do: Take two Monk levels at 15 and 16, and continue with paladin, ending up with 18/2.

1 Toughness, Power Attack
3 Two Weapon Fighting
6 Cleave
9 Improved Critical Bludgeoning (swapped from Slash)
12 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15 Dodge (Monk 1)
16 Toughness (Monk 2)
18 Toughness
21 Stunning Fist
24 Stunning Blow

This progression forfeits your original plans to take OC (which is a grave investment on such a feat-starved build), and uses exactly one feat-swap. Cleave is kept as a measure to keep the mobs at you, and away from the sorc.
The two stunners are used to CC, but they will probably only work reliably if supported by a + stunning item and the legendary tactics, which is why they are taken that late. If you want to, you can swap them with the toughness feats which are there to compensate for your low Con, and the fact that I'd rather increase Cha than Con. You can see it this way: Using the +2 Tome for Cha instead of Con makes you lose 1 HP per level, which you get 'back' by spending a feat for toughness. I.e. you spend this feat to get an additional +2 Damage on every attack (as long as DM is active) and +1 to all saves.

If you dare, you can swap the level 16/18 feats with the 21/24 feats, trading HP for potential CC and more damage - if the stuns land.

Re: Gear. A lot of leveling gear can be made with the help of cannith crafting. Do you know someone on your server who offers these services (or have a crafter yourself)?

As a post scriptum: If you have the time to read a bit, I recommend Junts' guide. It's a bit old, and some game mechanics have changed (armor class, for example), but it still contains a lot of general information on building a paladin: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542

[brickwall]

I don't suggest attempting paladin until your at least a 36 point build there simply is not enough build points to allocate the proper stats to even be viable and pre existing tomes wouldn't hurt.

[karl_k0ch]

I don't suggest attempting paladin until your at least a 36 point build there simply is not enough build points to allocate the proper stats to even be viable and pre existing tomes wouldn't hurt.

But here we are, the OP has a 28pt toon at level 14 he doesn't want to delete, and currently not the option to use a (greater) heart.

While I agree that Paladins are pretty stat- and feat-intensive (especially pure TWF ones), 28pt TWF builds are doable, especially when a splash offer feats which compensate for not being able to start with 14 or 16 Con.

[Jalgratas]

Well everything you said makes a lot of sense to me I quite like the idea of having monk splash with stuns. I already have stonedust wraps for example, even without upgrading them id have decent punching tool for now until i get somethig better. One tome in form of +2 CHA tome doesnt sound too bad of an investment in longer terms. I mean I could still slash.. erm i mean punch with Divine Might I and then after acquiring tome just respec enhancements. The respecing enhancements is dirt cheap anyway. I do plan to get still con tome from favor reward though.

I think im going to follow that path you suggested. Sounds reasonable to me.

And the idea of working towards stun sounds really sexy to me because if and when I do land a stun then it means 50% extra damage for my partner or other folk if we have random people with us from lfg. But with only 8 base wisdom for stunning fist id assume it wont land very often even with stun item. But stunnign blow works off of str so it might be more reliable. Ill see once I get to the later levels.

Edit: And it just occured to me that if i take the 2 monk levels at 15 and 16 i can get frozen tunic then for the ki generation and also putting me centered which means i can take the benefit of the first tier monk stances. Well all except fire for now as it would put me below level 4 spell casting and making me lose zeal but that i can fix later by just getting better wisdom item.

[boredman]

I have done 28pt paladins before and with some gear you can make them work. First, get a heavy fortification item if dont have one yet (like nigthforge gorget for example), get a resistance +4 or +5 cloak for the saves, if have acces to monk, get two levels for evasion, take diehard as one of the monk features so you can take defender of siberys prestige, get some ac items like for example a shield clickie item and greater parrying bracers. Empower healing for more csw power and also you have few LOH for self healing. (later you can take quicken spell too if having interrupt problems with your heal spells). (the sora kell set is good for paladins because gives charisma, strength and wisdom, with some devotion power ).

Also forget about stunning fist or blow, (at least until you get uber gear for that), because paladins dont have much str or wis to make effective that tactics. (you are better using scimitars (or khopesh) , unless you get uber monk gear.

[squishwizzy]

I did a 28 point Pally HotD, and it was a breeze to level. It was painful to play past level 18.

The only advice I'd give is if you are going pally for a 28-point build, start with DoS S&B, TR at 20, then go for a THF or TWF build for endgame. They are survivable, but their main problem is that they don't dish-out enough DPS in melee where they can take down a baddie before the baddie takes them down. Going DoS may constrain your DPS, but it significantly reduces the damage you take, and it make the toon much easier to play with less points to spread around.

Stuff like Divine Might and so on help, but in PUG situations, you spend about twenty minutes buffing while the rest of the group is in there killing the mobs. Plus, the decent buffs don't last long, and often take a log time to cast. It is annoying as h*ll.

DoS, in my opinion, is simpler, allows you to put your level-ups in CHR without too much of a compromise elsewhere in the build. I think that HotD and KotC are cool PrEs, but I think when you hit epic levels, the weaknesses begin to show. This may be different with EDs, but without them, you won't fare well unless you've run a lot of paladins before, and know what you are doing.

This is just my experience with my first pally. Some people may disagree. Just expressing my opinion.

[Kinerd]

The #1 thing you can do for your survivability is to swap Cleave for Maximize and apply it to your Cure spells. I see you using wands and I just shudder.

Also keep in mind that you will never match a sorcerer for overall power, especially in the sweet spot of spell-based direct damage that you are just at the tail end of now.

Spamming Cleave and Trip is probably reducing your DPS.

Spamming Cleave is definitely reducing your survivability.

Evasion is not a panacea. (Even Panacea is not a panacea.) Consider a case where you fail 17 of 20 saves: that's 17 * 1 damage + 3 * .5 = 18.5. Add Evasion, and we have 17 * 1 + 3 * 0 = 17. Not a big difference. If you already have good saves, on the other hand, your saving for half plus Resist Energy should already be eating up almost all of the damage you are subject to.

Use scimitars. Don't fool around with OC as a TWF paladin or khopeshes on a first life build.

Divine Sacrifice is a very strong DPS enhancement.

32 points would give you +2 Con. 32 points would make absolutely no palpable difference in your playability.

36 points would give you probably another +2 Con on top of that +2 Con. Same story.

.

Tactics for Melees:
1. Don't bite off more than you can chew.
2. Casters first.
3. Use CC.
a. If your sorcerer casts Web (et al), don't stand toe to toe with enemies. Kite stuff into it, and if necessary out of and into it.
b. If your sorcerer doesn't cast CC, mock him or her.
c. Use terrain to your advantage: monsters have relatively uniform detection ranges, so if the group is like this...

     mob
mob      mob
     mob

     you

...and they are all facing you, you can carefully edge towards the closest mob (NOT ranged attack) and grab only that mob's attention. If they are all facing away from you, you can throw a ranged weapon into the ground near them (turn off auto-targeting) to attract one's attention, but this is a stickier trick. If your sorcerer blasts the group with a fireball, he or she can deal with the aggro.
4. Have buffs. Protection from Evil vs Command, Freedom of Movement vs Hold, Death Ward vs Death, Resist Energy and Angelskin vs ouchies.
5. Practice. Everyone who is good at DDO was once not good at DDO.

[karl_k0ch]

The #1 thing you can do for your survivability is to swap Cleave for Maximize and apply it to your Cure spells. I see you using wands and I just shudder.

Keeping IC:Slash, using khopeshes and swapping Cleave for Maximize is an option I did not recommend because I have no experience on first-hand SP management on an untwinked toon. It is, however, an option, and does not interfere with the main benefits of the monk levels: feats and evasion.

[squishwizzy]

5. Practice. Everyone who is good at DDO was once not good at DDO.

Except me.

[EllisDee37]

DoS, in my opinion, is simpler, allows you to put your level-ups in CHR without too much of a compromise elsewhere in the build. I think that HotD and KotC are cool PrEs, but I think when you hit epic levels, the weaknesses begin to show. This may be different with EDs, but without them, you won't fare well unless you've run a lot of paladins before, and know what you are doing.

Agreed that KotC is junk, but HotD scales extremely well for epic content thanks to the healing amp. (DoS is also very good, of course.)