Solo Wiz/Rogue/Art build questions

[Brynn]

I have had my DDO account since it's launch but haven't played too much. Mainly because it required group play. I love D&D but because of my work, family, schedule, etc, I am a horrible guildmate and it's no fun to group with me so finding ways to play this game solo is my only real option.

I have always loved playing wizards but I thought I would splash either 1 or 2 levels of rogue or artificer for the disabling of traps. I have the vet reward that gives you 32 pt builds and starting at lvl 7. So I have created a few variants of this and not sure which one I like best and have only been through a few levels.

What I would like to know from some of you vets is the long term viability of such a build.

18 Wiz/2 Rogue - Palemaster Elf

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 226
Spell Points: 1413 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 18
Will: 10
                 Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
 
                 Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         3                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                 -1                    -1
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                     9
Search                4                    11
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
 
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
 
Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Augment Summoning
 
Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
 
Level 4 (Wizard)
 
Level 5 (Wizard)
 
Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
 
Level 7 (Rogue)
 
Level 8 (Wizard)
 
Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
 
Level 10 (Wizard)
 
Level 11 (Wizard)
 
Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
 
Level 13 (Wizard)
 
Level 14 (Wizard)
 
Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
 
Level 16 (Wizard)
 
Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment
 
Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
 
Level 19 (Wizard)
 
Level 20 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum III
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Ice II
Enhancement: Deadly Ice III
Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Archer
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Archer
Enhancement: Summon Skeleton Archer
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Knight
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Knight
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Knight
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Mage
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Mage
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Mage
Enhancement: Shroud of the Vampire
Enhancement: Shroud of the Zombie

The other idea I had was a 18 Wiz/2 Art with a similar build. The repeater is nice for a little extra dmg in the beginning when SPs are at a premium. The pet is a total waste of time as well as most of the 1st level Artie spells. The extra SPs is nice as well the disable and open skills.

The other thing I am struggling with is the race. Human is nice so I can get an extra feat but that means I can't wear armor while casting (which I think is really cool) with arcane fluidity. That leaves helf, elf, or drow. What about alignment? Any gotchas there?

There are so many little things to consider that I just don't know which route to take. Any advice from you vets out there would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!

[RedHost]

The first thing that really stands out to me is the lack of Heighten Spell. That is pretty much a necessity for Wizards. Augmented Summoning is not a very powerful feat, you might want to consider swapping the two, or at the least finding some way to squeeze Heighten in. Also, delaying Maximize until such late levels is going to make things much more difficult for you than they need to be.

The Pale Mancer summons are typically pretty much useless by the time you get them, but Enhancements are very easy to reset, so you can really play around with them a lot and see if maybe they make things more fun for you anyways.

The other idea I had was a 18 Wiz/2 Art with a similar build. The repeater is nice for a little extra dmg in the beginning when SPs are at a premium. The pet is a total waste of time as well as most of the 1st level Artie spells. The extra SPs is nice as well the disable and open skills.

Actually, I really love having even a level one Arti dog! He is great for pulling levers and activating runes in quests that require this. Makes soloing certain things much, much easier.

The big difference between Rogue and Artificer is Evasion. It pretty much comes down to whether or not you have the twink gear needed to make sure that your Reflex save is high enough that you can make most of your saving throws.

The other thing I am struggling with is the race. Human is nice so I can get an extra feat but that means I can't wear armor while casting (which I think is really cool) with arcane fluidity. That leaves helf, elf, or drow. What about alignment? Any gotchas there?

I would really limit that to just Human and Elf, really. Drow and Half Elves do not get the Elven Spell Penetration enhancements. So if you really want to wear that armor, Elf is probably the way to go. Human would probably be better from a power gamy stand point, but it is not like you are going to be hopelessly lost by choosing Elf instead.

Your Alignment will be a snag for you in a few places, but it is quite situational. The big one that you might want to consider is Lailat. The Torc of Prince What's-his-face is an item that many casters solo farm the raid for. But against her you will take bonus damage from her Unholy Khopeshes, and then even more extra damage from her Chaotic Khopeshes.

Over all, the splashed PM can be a lot of fun! I hope that you enjoy.

[Brynn]

The first thing that really stands out to me is the lack of Heighten Spell. That is pretty much a necessity for Wizards. Augmented Summoning is not a very powerful feat, you might want to consider swapping the two, or at the least finding some way to squeeze Heighten in. Also, delaying Maximize until such late levels is going to make things much more difficult for you than they need to be.

The Pale Mancer summons are typically pretty much useless by the time you get them, but Enhancements are very easy to reset, so you can really play around with them a lot and see if maybe they make things more fun for you anyways.

I thought a Palemaster with a bunch of summons was a cool concept. A summon beast, summon skelly, a hireling with a summon beast. In that sense I figured the augment summoning was a good feat. Are you saying that I won't be using my summons later in the game? Right now, I basically let my skelly mage and elemental beat down everything. That won't work in later levels?

Actually, I really love having even a level one Arti dog! He is great for pulling levers and activating runes in quests that require this. Makes soloing certain things much, much easier.

I use my hireling for this stuff. Is there something else that I may be missing?

The big difference between Rogue and Artificer is Evasion. It pretty much comes down to whether or not you have the twink gear needed to make sure that your Reflex save is high enough that you can make most of your saving throws.

I have **** gear. My highest level toon is going on 11. I never really played DDO that much because of my limitations and the fact that it required party play in the early days.

I would really limit that to just Human and Elf, really. Drow and Half Elves do not get the Elven Spell Penetration enhancements. So if you really want to wear that armor, Elf is probably the way to go. Human would probably be better from a power gamy stand point, but it is not like you are going to be hopelessly lost by choosing Elf instead.

I like the concept of an armor wearing mage. Is this viable at all or are the robes and outfits required at end game?

Over all, the splashed PM can be a lot of fun! I hope that you enjoy.

This is really key for me. I want to have a fun build...but one that can experience the content. Thanks for the advice.

[RedHost]

I thought a Palemaster with a bunch of summons was a cool concept. A summon beast, summon skelly, a hireling with a summon beast. In that sense I figured the augment summoning was a good feat. Are you saying that I won't be using my summons later in the game? Right now, I basically let my skelly mage and elemental beat down everything. That won't work in later levels?

That really depends on what you are looking to get from the game. If you mostly solo and like to run content on Normal then you could probably keep going with this strategy until the high teen levels, when bosses will start to destroy your summons extremely quickly. But if you like to run Bravery Bonus streaks you will find that your foes really start to outpace your summons in the mid-early teen quests.

I use my hireling for this stuff. Is there something else that I may be missing?

That works perfectly fine, I just tend to prefer not to use a hireling myself. They don't always have the best, erm, 'survival instincts'. I'm looking at you, Tempys, after you just stood in that lava pool for 30 seconds trying and failing to heal yourself even though I was telling you to come over here!

Also, there are some places such as Xorian Cipher where you need more than just one extra person. But if you park a Hireling and your Dog on one set of pressure plates, and then trip/stun/hold a monster on one of the other ones and activate the final one yourself it becomes much more soloable. Same idea with epic Vault of Night, a couple that I used to play with would trio that with me, which I don't think we could have managed without my Cleric's level one Dog.

I have **** gear. My highest level toon is going on 11. I never really played DDO that much because of my limitations and the fact that it required party play in the early days.

That is something that always turned me off as well. ;-) My husband has been playing since Day 1, but I didn't really play more than infrequently until they tuned difficulties and made soloing more viable. Most of my play time comes during the early afternoon hours, when there are not really a whole lot of people online.

If you find that you mostly run content on Normal, then you can hit those Reflex Save DCs pretty easily. If you like Elite Streaking and you are not geared out the wazoo then it would probably be better to not even try for Evasion and just go with Artificer for it's other perks. Evasion can be extremely powerful, and make many quests go from a nightmare to very simple! But only if you can pass almost all of the Saving Throws.

I like the concept of an armor wearing mage. Is this viable at all or are the robes and outfits required at end game?

Well, this really depends on what you mean by 'end game'. If you just like to solo, a splashed PM can do so just find on all of the Epic Hard quests. However, all of the best caster gear ~is~ in the form of Robes, especially for PMs. If being top shelf is not your goal, then you can probably get by with armor. But it will be sacrificing a lot to get that roughly 10% physical damage reduction.
EDIT: To clarify, there are loot-gen and crafted Light Armors that you can wear even at epic levels. There is even one 'caster' light armor in the High Road adventure pack. However, the overwhelming majority of caster named loot that is superior to any of the lootgen or crafted stuff is all Robes.


I would still absolutely recommend figuring out some way to get Heighten Spell in your build. Without it you are really hobbling yourself. You do not really need it until the later levels, but it is something that will make a world of difference in your capabilities.

DDO has many different levels of play, for several different play styles. A well geared and min/maxed character can trivialize content that others struggle through. But your character does not have to be perfect in order to complete quests and have some fun. Doing the most current raid dungeons might be a different story, but if you are just concerned with solo play then you don't really need to worry too much about a totally optimized character, just one that has the basics and is able to get by.

[EllisDee37]

I see a few issues with your build, namely no heighten but also the 1-2 punch of no quicken and no concentration. You'll want all three. The 2 build points in dexterity is a waste thanks to Insightful Reflexes. I'd toss them over to strength instead. And finally, your best bet is to take 1 rogue followed by 7 wizard levels, otherwise known as "race to firewall."

See the "Pale Trapper" thread in my signature for a new-player friendly version of this concept. Elf will work fine; you get 1 less skill point per level with which you can sacrifice umd, and I recently came up with a feat variant to handle not being human:

Human
 1 : Toughness
 1H: Insightful Reflexes
 2W: Spell Focus: Enchantment
 3 : Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
 6 : Mental Toughness <== Do NOT take as wizard bonus feat
 6W: Extend Spell
 9 : Maximize Spell
12 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
12W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
15 : Quicken Spell
17W: Heighten Spell
18 : Spell Penetration
20 : Greater Spell Penetration replaces Mental Toughness

Non-Human
 1 : Toughness
 2W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
 3 : Insightful Reflexes
 6 : Mental Toughness <== Do NOT take as wizard bonus feat
 6W: Extend Spell
 9 : Maximize Spell
12 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
12W: Quicken Spell
15 : Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
17W: Heighten Spell
18 : Spell Penetration
20 : Greater Spell Penetration replaces Mental Toughness

[Brynn]

I see a few issues with your build, namely no heighten but also the 1-2 punch of no quicken and no concentration. You'll want all three. The 2 build points in dexterity is a waste thanks to Insightful Reflexes. I'd toss them over to strength instead. And finally, your best bet is to take 1 rogue followed by 7 wizard levels, otherwise known as "race to firewall."

See the "Pale Trapper" thread in my signature for a new-player friendly version of this concept. Elf will work fine; you get 1 less skill point per level with which you can sacrifice umd, and I recently came up with a feat variant to handle not being human:

I just checked out your Pale Trapper post. Seems like my style. Couple of questions though:

1) Why STR instead of DEX? If you are going to drop wouldn't putting those points in WIS or CHA for the saves be better?
2) I am assuming you rely on the Wiz Knock spell to open locks?
3) Like I mentioned above, I like the "idea" of a spell casting wizard. Would there be room in your build for arcane fluidity?
4) Is missing the extra SP of the elf enhancements a big deal later on?
5) I am assuming you picked chaotic neutral because your UMD was high? Is that correct?

[EllisDee37]

1) Why STR instead of DEX? If you are going to drop wouldn't putting those points in WIS or CHA for the saves be better?
Strength is super useful to shrug off rays of enfeeblement, as well as carry around the loot from a bunch of chests without losing evasion due to being encumbered.

2) I am assuming you rely on the Wiz Knock spell to open locks?
Open lock is a higher dc than knock, so typically I'll try knock once and if it fails, swap to a set of open lock gloves (tinker's is my preference since it also has dex +6) and pick it the old fashioned way. In places like Shroud part 3, it's all knock all the time.

3) Like I mentioned above, I like the "idea" of a[n armor-wearing] wizard. Would there be room in your build for arcane fluidity?
Sure, I don't see why not. Enhancements are easy to play around with.

4) Is missing the extra SP of the elf enhancements a big deal later on?
I don't have them and I never missed them.

5) I am assuming you picked chaotic neutral because your UMD was high? Is that correct?
Not sure what this is in reference to. What align-restricted gear would a wizard want to use? Anyway, chaotic neutral makes torc farming a little easier since you're immune to some of the unholy and chaotic damage Queen Lailat does.

[Brynn]

1) Why STR instead of DEX? If you are going to drop wouldn't putting those points in WIS or CHA for the saves be better?
Strength is super useful to shrug off rays of enfeeblement, as well as carry around the loot from a bunch of chests without losing evasion due to being encumbered.

2) I am assuming you rely on the Wiz Knock spell to open locks?
Open lock is a higher dc than knock, so typically I'll try knock once and if it fails, swap to a set of open lock gloves (tinker's is my preference since it also has dex +6) and pick it the old fashioned way. In places like Shroud part 3, it's all knock all the time.

3) Like I mentioned above, I like the "idea" of a[n armor-wearing] wizard. Would there be room in your build for arcane fluidity?
Sure, I don't see why not. Enhancements are easy to play around with.

4) Is missing the extra SP of the elf enhancements a big deal later on?
I don't have them and I never missed them.

5) I am assuming you picked chaotic neutral because your UMD was high? Is that correct?
Not sure what this is in reference to. What align-restricted gear would a wizard want to use? Anyway, chaotic neutral makes torc farming a little easier since you're immune to some of the unholy and chaotic damage Queen Lailat does.

Two final questions:
1) At level 12 you have Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy and Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy <-- can you do this at the same level? I thought you would have to take the focus on an earlier feat then the greater in a subsequent feat.
2) in your human build, you selected focus enchantment early on. Pre-PM (lvl 14) do you use hirelings and then charms to work your way through the dungeons?

[EllisDee37]

I thought you would have to take the focus on an earlier feat then the greater in a subsequent feat.I originally thought so too, but nope, it works fine to take both at the same level. I've done this on multiple lives now.

Pre-PM (lvl 14) do you use hirelings and then charms to work your way through the dungeons?
Pretty much. Before level 14 I just use a stack of cure serious pots when grouping or a hire when soloing. The hire is mostly because I'm cheap and lazy, but it's also useful for DV.

I generally keep 2 or 3 different hirelings in my inventory at all times in case I run out of mana. In which case, DDoor back to start, pop a hire, use all their DVs, dismiss him, pop a different one for all his DVs, etc...

At high levels I just carry Tempys (level 14; most DV of any hire I believe) and the 17 one, I think his name is Arkyn. It's pretty rare when I need them but nice to have for emergencies. I also carry that Korthos pendant at all times, to be used for just enough mana (combined with echoes of power) for a DDoor in just such a circumstance. Those two hires generally give you ~1000 sp.

[Jingwei]

You can pick almost any lock in the game with just 4 points in the open lock skill and the right gear. My pale trapper can't pick the lock in house of death undone, but that's one of the very few.

Before circle of death (lvl 6) there aren't really any spells that you need necro focus for. If you aren't planning to use zombie form, then you don't need either necro focus until lvl 12, when you get access to wraith form. But there are plenty of lower level enchantment spells that may come in useful (resistable dance, suggestion, charm monster, etc) And even at higher levels, I got more use out of things like disco ball + ice storm + acid rain and mass suggestion + dismiss charm than I did circle of death, mainly because of the long cooldown. And finger of death is too expensive to use to kill everyone. It's not until you get wail at level 19 that necromancy can potentially be the solution to all your problems.

[EllisDee37]

Sadly I rarely use wail anymore because it's so borked. I'm considering actually dropping it to free up a spell slot.

Necrotic ray is still full of win, though, and the necro focus feats help it a bit.