Starter Cleric for the new guy-

[kierg10]

Im done.

You insult my build which has proven itself and just want to argue. And I dont. Since you seem to know so much about builds yet question the aspects of this build, I leave it to you to figure out why I chose what I chose. I'm not going to explain anything else.

The build works and that's all there is to it.

I'm sorry, but you post a build for a new player that includes +2 tomes in all stats, 32 point build, gives some bad build advice (i.e., MT/IMT are not the best expenditure of your feat slots, and extend should also be swapped for a feat that would boost other aspects of the character), state that he can spend money or grind to fix his build later instead of just having a build that can hold its own DPS/killing wise throughout the whole game, then act like we are the ones in the wrong?

[Musouka]

Im done.

You insult my build which has proven itself and just want to argue. And I dont. Since you seem to know so much about builds yet question the aspects of this build, I leave it to you to figure out why I chose what I chose. I'm not going to explain anything else.

The build works and that's all there is to it.

Still refusing to acknowledge people's post. Instead you are just on a single track, without considering anything that people have posted. The build may work, but it is still not a starter or new guy friendly build.

[Xynot2]

I'm sorry, but you post a build for a new player that includes +2 tomes in all stats, 32 point build, gives some bad build advice (i.e., MT/IMT are not the best expenditure of your feat slots, and extend should also be swapped for a feat that would boost other aspects of the character), state that he can spend money or grind to fix his build later instead of just having a build that can hold its own DPS/killing wise throughout the whole game, then act like we are the ones in the wrong?

Im accused of ignoring people- well here is a good example of ignoring. It IS a 28 point build- look at the CON stat. 15-17 for TR. Yes it includes +2 tomes. I didnt have them when I made the build but I got them. MT and IMT may not be the best IYO, but that's one of those *choice* things.

And handing him a build that is *done* as so many put it, doesn't teach anything about the enhancement system. Tell me you walked into DDO and completely understood it and learned because some one handed you their best build plan and then make me believe it.

After the responses, I'm SURE not going to post my barbarian build. (lower CON than most but higher STR just for starters). But he gets the job done. Just like this build.

And with that, I hope no one feels like Im ignoring anything now. I really would like to be done here.

[kierg10]

Im accused of ignoring people- well here is a good example of ignoring. It IS a 28 point build- look at the CON stat. 15-17 for TR. Yes it includes +2 tomes. I didnt have them when I made the build but I got them. MT and IMT may not be the best IYO, but that's one of those *choice* things.

And handing him a build that is *done* as so many put it, doesn't teach anything about the enhancement system. Tell me you walked into DDO and completely understood it and learned because some one handed you their best build plan and then make me believe it.

After the responses, I'm SURE not going to post my barbarian build. (lower CON than most but higher STR just for starters). But he gets the job done. Just like this build.

And with that, I hope no one feels like Im ignoring anything now. I really would like to be done here.

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 12
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 17 (tr version 15 18)
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 18 28
Charisma 14 16

str 10=2 build points
dex 8=0 build points
Con 14=6 build points
int 10=2 build points
wisdom 18=16 build points
cha 14=6 build points

2+0+6+2+16+6=32

And you stated 32 point build.

This time he is ignoring his own post, lol

edit: and on the MT/IMT feats.

in total from them you get 210 spell points, an empower healed/quickened mass heal costs 70 spell points, so for the cost of two feats you can cast 3 three more emp heal/quickened mass heals. Wow, that is so great.....I wish I could waste my feat slots like that.

instead you could slot necro focus/greater necro focus, and manage to get enemies dead quicker since they might actually fail saves against your instakills (or evo feats) and then have to spend less SP on healing, since enemies are deadified, also in smaller groups you should mostly be healing with bursts/aura with the occasional spot heal, and in raids 3 extra mass heals is kind of meh, since by the point you have mass heal you should be able to get 1600+ SP......

[Charononus]

Im done.

You insult my build which has proven itself and just want to argue. And I dont. Since you seem to know so much about builds yet question the aspects of this build, I leave it to you to figure out why I chose what I chose. I'm not going to explain anything else.

The build works and that's all there is to it.

I get why you picked some things, you wanted a healbot. What I and others have said is that there is no need to do this to be able to heal effectively and not need sp pots, torc, or con op for most quests/raids for a new player. You probably picked lg for umd bypass on items which you wouldn't need to do if you put points into umd, and umd would give access to other things to help the character survive. You picked extend, which while useful is not that great of a feat slot past lower levels, you picked empower which has changed greatly post u14 and is no longer optimal on anything other than a nuker imo. You picked mt, and improved mt to not need pots. These are not needed with smart casting (this does not have anything to do with gear). These are imo bad moves that hurt a player and will make them require an lr (which bugs out sometimes) or a tr. To me this would be horrible advice to a new player, if you want to give a new player a build give them one that is well thought out to allow them to grow into more roles as their skill progresses. People will have different opinions on what works well with builds but you don't even defend your choices or give reasons other than

Im trying to give the guy an easy to build, easy to play, dont have to think about the gameplay so able to think about the build improvements kind of build for some one with no experience.

He can do those builds after he learns the frikin game. You act like he cant reroll or respec or LR or any number of things once the lightbulb goes off. They guy just wanted a simple cleric build to get started.

Honestly I disagree with this method of teaching and think it's a poor way to welcome a new player to the game. You're welcome to your opinion but when you put up something for discussion on a discussion board and call those that disagree with you a troll, I ask you who's really trolling.

[Xynot2]

str 10=2 build points
dex 8=0 build points
Con 14=6 build points
int 10=2 build points
wisdom 18=16 build points
cha 14=6 build points

2+0+6+2+16+6=32

And you stated 32 point build.

This time he is ignoring his own post, lol

I stand corrected. I pulled the wrong file. 28 pt was 10, 8, 14, 10, 17, 13. ad 1 point to cha from lv and the rest to wis.(been a while) and once I got 1750 favor I rerolled to the posted stats.

[kierg10]

I stand corrected. I pulled the wrong file. 28 pt was 10, 8, 14, 10, 17, 13. ad 1 point to cha from lv and the rest to wis.(been a while) and once I got 1750 favor I rerolled to the posted stats.

just curious, why 1 point to cha and rest to wis?

I don't really see that as necessary as 13 base+7 item+2 insightful (i.e., cleric set)+2 tome+2 enhancements=26, which is more than enough, and all that point into cha would do is put it at an odd number.

[Xynot2]

just curious, why 1 point to cha and rest to wis?

I don't really see that as necessary as 13 base+7 item+2 insightful (i.e., cleric set)+2 tome+2 enhancements=26, which is more than enough, and all that point into cha would do is put it at an odd number.

It's pre- motu and I have the worst luck at loot rolls and drops. I wasn;t aware that there were +7 items pre-motu.

[kierg10]

It's pre- motu and I have the worst luck at loot rolls and drops. I wasn;t aware that there were +7 items pre-motu.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Commendation...s_of_Amaunator

signet/symbol of the shining sun, they are from cleric commendations which are obtainable easily enough

Also if you wear those two and the armour you get -10% spell costs.....

[Viisari]

It's pre- motu and I have the worst luck at loot rolls and drops. I wasn;t aware that there were +7 items pre-motu.

There were tons of +7 items pre-U14. U14 introduced +8 and +3 stat bonuses to the game.

[Xynot2]

There were tons of +7 items pre-U14. U14 introduced +8 and +3 stat bonuses to the game.

I missed out. And I quit playing the cleric due to wanting to play other toons as well.

people are right. Healbots can get boring.But sometimes a casual cruise thru an elite is kinda nice.

[Viisari]

But sometimes a casual cruise thru an elite is kinda nice.

Hmm, I do those all the time without even having any healers in the group. On Epic Elite too.

There are plenty of ways for turning elite quests into jokes, just healing through all incoming damage isn't really one of them. Doing that is what I'd personally call "stupid play".

[DarkForte]

That build solo healed Shroud without potions, thank you very much.

I'd be a challenge to make a toon with 18+ levels of cleric that CAN'T soloheal shroud these days.

I missed out. And I quit playing the cleric due to wanting to play other toons as well.

If not even the 'build' designer can bear playing it, why would you expect the new guy to like it?

people are right. Healbots can get boring.But sometimes a casual cruise thru an elite is kinda nice.

Healbotting is only a 'casual cruise' if you're playing with people competent enough that they don't need you.

You know what makes quests easier? Having melee/offensive casting abilities.

This build is a classic example of the blind following the blind.

[EllisDee37]

really? a bard heal an elite shroud? that I would like to see. Especially since they're never spec'd that way because it gimps the rest of the toon.

Nobody would spec a cleric the way you outlined in the OP because it gimps the rest of the toon.

And ANY divine with mass heal can solo heal elite shroud, making that claim irrelevant.

You will note that the build I posted gave the guy room to improve on his own.

It doesn't, though, because you lock him into bad feat choices and a new player will have to burn the free LR to fix it. Also, they won't be able to branch out from heals-only because you gave them no dc to work with, meaning the "improve on his own" aspect will require him to fix the build before he can start experimenting.

[DDOisFree]

Such a terrible cleric build, if I knew that a cleric was specced as a pure heal bot I would rather take Wyoh instead, at least she can cast nice implosions that work.

Clerics that do nothing but heal are always a waste of a party slot. A first time player is never going to be able to solo heal an elite shroud run regardless of their build because they lack the experience, and an offensive specced divine paired up with any UMD scroll healer can handle that.

Back before epic difficulties were split and there was only one diff comparable to EE, I duo healed an epic chrono run after one healer DCed by backing up to scroll healing on my rogue. That's right, one FVS and a scroll using rogue can duo heal EE chrono.

The only thing that makes shroud slightly rougher to heal is that dead players in the first harry fight are kicked out of the battle and can't rejoin. Other than that there is no need anywhere in the game to make the OPs cleric build with nothing but healing enhancements.

Greater evocation focus or two spell pen feats would also be immensely better for implosion.

Being able to heal without using any pots doesn't make you a better player. Being willing to use pots on any blue bar when your SP runs and your spells are needed makes you a better player.

[Charononus]

Such a terrible cleric build, if I knew that a cleric was specced as a pure heal bot I would rather take Wyoh instead, at least she can cast nice implosions that work.

Clerics that do nothing but heal are always a waste of a party slot. A first time player is never going to be able to solo heal an elite shroud run regardless of their build because they lack the experience, and an offensive specced divine paired up with any UMD scroll healer can handle that.

Back before epic difficulties were split and there was only one diff comparable to EE, I duo healed an epic chrono run after one healer DCed by backing up to scroll healing on my rogue. That's right, one FVS and a scroll using rogue can duo heal EE chrono.

The only thing that makes shroud slightly rougher to heal is that dead players in the first harry fight are kicked out of the battle and can't rejoin. Other than that there is no need anywhere in the game to make the OPs cleric build with nothing but healing enhancements.

Greater evocation focus or two spell pen feats would also be immensely better for implosion.

Being able to heal without using any pots doesn't make you a better player. Being willing to use pots on any blue bar when your SP runs and your spells are needed makes you a better player.

I agree with what you are saying but the last part is a little off, might just be how you put it. I'm always willing to use a pot if I have to but I always have a goal of not needing to, to me using one feels like a small failure of that goal regardless of if the quest succeeds. But that is a personal goal.

[DDOisFree]

Most ordinary quests have enough shrines that you don't need to use pots at all. Clerics can heal without any SP using their radiant bursts, and FVSs with improved empowering 3 and their spell point pool shouldn't have any issues with running out of SP with both healing and offensive support being done together (I don't have any SP issues combining both offensive spell casting and healing).

I always get more pots than I ever need to use, and I didn't mean that you chug through them no matter what, but its nothing to be proud of that you can get through any quest or raid without needing them, just about everyone can do that without any mental toughnesses and with casting offensive spells on top, just about every decent divine caster I get in my groups can handle this too without drinking any pots.

Heal scrolls also save a lot of SP, as does not wasting SP on WF without healers friend + healing amp (get someone else to recon them or leave them to die, they aren't worth healing).

The way the OP puts it makes it look like using one or two of your several hundred major pots when your SP runs out makes you a worse healer than him. I don't understand how anyone struggles to make huge stacks of healing pots in DDO, they drop very reliably in chests and as end rewards, and when playing a FVS I had people trading me free major pots constantly when I was mainly healing with scrolls and using my blue bar on offense which was funny.

[Charononus]

Most ordinary quests have enough shrines that you don't need to use pots at all. Clerics can heal without any SP using their radiant bursts, and FVSs with improved empowering 3 and their spell point pool shouldn't have any issues with running out of SP with both healing and offensive support being done together (I don't have any SP issues combining both offensive spell casting and healing).

I always get more pots than I ever need to use, and I didn't mean that you chug through them no matter what, but its nothing to be proud of that you can get through any quest or raid without needing them, just about everyone can do that without any mental toughnesses and with casting offensive spells on top, just about every decent divine caster I get in my groups can handle this too without drinking any pots.

Heal scrolls also save a lot of SP, as does not wasting SP on WF without healers friend + healing amp (get someone else to recon them or leave them to die, they aren't worth healing).

The way the OP puts it makes it look like using one or two of your several hundred major pots when your SP runs out makes you a worse healer than him. I don't understand how anyone struggles to make huge stacks of healing pots in DDO, they drop very reliably in chests and as end rewards, and when playing a FVS I had people trading me free major pots constantly when I was mainly healing with scrolls and using my blue bar on offense which was funny.

Completely agreed then, just the way you put the first post made me unsure of your meaning.

[Mubjon]

taking MT/IMT and EMT is not always a waste on a build. That is 400+ Spell points right there and people farm a raid for months to create an item that gives them 300.

Cleric will have 7 feats -

maximize
quicken
heighten
MT
IMT
Toughness
SF: Evo

Human can add Spell pen

two epic feats

Epic MT - 200 more SP and with Destiny the three mental feats add another 40 to spell point pool

greater spell pen

viola a cleric that can heal and still dish out some nice damage or CC in EH quests.

Add in a mage splash and you can add a meta magic feat, add in 2 fighter levels and you can add in both shield masteries for extra PRR as well as free tower shield prof.

[DDOisFree]

and people farm a raid for months to create an item that gives them 300.

You mean conc opps that give an SP returning guard? Gear doesn't waste feats, and that item also has blindness immunity and +5 UMD, along with +6 Wisdom, its not made for the spell points alone.

My human FVS TRed from a wiz had the feats you wasted on MT + IMT spent on SF and GSP evo, and the wizard past life feat. Epic feats taken were simply two +1 wisdoms for +1 DCs to every spell.

All the feats you would waste on Mental toughnesses can be better spent on other things to make your spells much more effective, thats always been the case.