Pale Master Guide

[Andoris]

Did my first EE Deathwyrm last night. It was successful but very much not elegant.

My main takeaway was that if that quest is a significant part of your endgame, then taking ruin as a feat is probably more important than the last point of great intelligence for your DCs.

Thoughts?

I really don't like that spell/feat in general -- I think it is too expensive for the benefit; however, you make a good point. If EE Deathwyrm is your focus it could make sense, as many of your cheap nukes (necrotic ray) are not that useful against red/purple named undead, and it gives you a decent (if expensive) direct damage option.

I would still hesitate to drop my DC's down to fit it in(wining the lottery and pulling a +6 int tome makes it easy though), although depending on the content you are running, it could be a nice option to add versatility.

If you take Ruin, I would also drop Echo's of the Magister and twist in Sense weakness instead (no need to have an odd Int).

I haven't really looked at Ruin in a while -- running through a bunch of ETR's atm, might take that next life and see how it works out.

[Portalcat]

I really don't like that spell/feat in general -- I think it is too expensive for the benefit; however, you make a good point. If EE Deathwyrm is your focus it could make sense, as many of your cheap nukes (necrotic ray) are not that useful against red/purple named undead, and it gives you a decent (if expensive) direct damage option.

I would still hesitate to drop my DC's down to fit it in(wining the lottery and pulling a +6 int tome makes it easy though), although depending on the content you are running, it could be a nice option to add versatility.

If you take Ruin, I would also drop Echo's of the Magister and twist in Sense weakness instead (no need to have an odd Int).

I haven't really looked at Ruin in a while -- running through a bunch of ETR's atm, might take that next life and see how it works out.

The value of Ruin is specifically that it bypasses everything, including the DR of the shadow dragon even with all 5 deathlords up (disintegrate does too, but the dragon will always make the fort save). This allows for a raid strategy in which a party pulls deathlord aggro away from the battle instead of trying to kill them and just whittles the dragon down by having half the party spam ruin. It also gives you precise control of the timing of the killing blow because you cannot inadvertently damage her with 5 deathlords up.

My suggested destiny for that raid would be Magister with energy burst, a point of int, and endless faith twisted, assuming one doesn't want to be a Shiradi caster for a day instead.



Just generally having ruin seems like a tool that can help with anemic boss DPS and give an option for enemies you cannot easily deal with as a DC caster. It is very sp intensive (110 sp with metas), so it is absolutely situational.


In my case, I'm on the verge of epic completionist. This will allow me to drop the last point of great intelligence (currently taking all 3 and normally running in draconic with sense weakness instead of echoes), and I can either take epic spell focus necro or ruin in its place.

[Andoris]

The value of Ruin is specifically that it bypasses everything, including the DR of the shadow dragon even with all 5 deathlords up (disintegrate does too, but the dragon will always make the fort save). This allows for a raid strategy in which a party pulls deathlord aggro away from the battle instead of trying to kill them and just whittles the dragon down by having half the party spam ruin. It also gives you precise control of the timing of the killing blow because you cannot inadvertently damage her with 5 deathlords up.

My suggested destiny for that raid would be Magister with energy burst, a point of int, and endless faith twisted, assuming one doesn't want to be a Shiradi caster for a day instead.



Just generally having ruin seems like a tool that can help with anemic boss DPS and give an option for enemies you cannot easily deal with as a DC caster. It is very sp intensive (110 sp with metas), so it is absolutely situational.


In my case, I'm on the verge of epic completionist. This will allow me to drop the last point of great intelligence (currently taking all 3 and normally running in draconic with sense weakness instead of echoes), and I can either take epic spell focus necro or ruin in its place.

Didn't realize that it broke his DR.. that is very intriguing. How much damage are you seeing (assuming 150 force spell power and 15% lore item?

Gratz on getting close to Epic completionist -- I am still 6 lives away myself (martial and divine).

[Portalcat]

Didn't realize that it broke his DR.. that is very intriguing. How much damage are you seeing (assuming 150 force spell power and 15% lore item?

Gratz on getting close to Epic completionist -- I am still 6 lives away myself (martial and divine).

It's been a large number of lives since I slotted it. My Shiradi spammer sorc sees something like 3-4k hits with 6-8k crits with metas on and a much higher base force spellpower, I think around 350. I'd think that we'd expect to be doing 2/3 of that and with little more than half the crit chance, so figure 2-3k hits with 4-6k crits.

That definitely won't one-slot mobs in upper level EE content, but adding that in every 15 seconds certainly ups our single target DPS. Where it really shines is against enemies that are immune to death effects and most spell types - a few bosses come to mind.

Taking 150 force on a default caster stick seems like putting a lot of eggs in this basket, though you could craft a tier-1 stick with it just as a swap weapon for the raid very easily.





I should finish my 12th life by Friday, and I'll slot ruin on the epic completionist life. Martial has been surprisingly pleasant - it's like running Draconic for DCs and you gain evasion, which may actually make shadowdancer our best destiny in some content (EE Tor blue dragon comes to mind). Divine was the worst - lower DCs and almost nothing to show for it - but with the upcoming changes to the trees including DC buffs at tier 5 in one, that may change with U21 patch 1.

[Wipey]

I've now run at least 11 of these, mostly EH, on my DC caster. My usual contribution has been to solve puzzles, do generic DPS on deathlords/dragon, scroll res, guard levers, and undeath to death shadows and trash as needed. In other words, it's a generalist role.

Have you tried Sunburst with "wizard DC evo" ? At least on EH my cleric can kill whole groups of shadows with it, easily getting 100 kills, plus lowering the alert.
I wonder what lower evo results might be.

[Portalcat]

Have you tried Sunburst with "wizard DC evo" ? At least on EH my cleric can kill whole groups of shadows with it, easily getting 100 kills, plus lowering the alert.
I wonder what lower evo results might be.

I gave up on sunburst awhile ago because it hasn't been very effective for me at EE. Moreover, slotting evocation focus + augment in addition to necromancy, enchantment, and conjuration starts requiring meaningful tradeoffs. Meanwhile basically zero of the damage spells I cast or want to cast have a save against evocation DC.


I would be interested to see what someone's results were with sunburst at EE with evocation DCs in the low 60s, slotting evo focus 5, the augment, and having sorc past lives. There may be content were it's worth the effort to slot the augment and use the locket as a swap item.

[Portalcat]

Is there someone who's played around with the new Lamannia build who can comment on the new shadows upon you debuff in exalted angel? Last I checked it was tier 3 without an sp cost or cooldown set.

I presume that this will be a must-have twist.

[EllisDee37]

Is there someone who's played around with the new Lamannia build who can comment on the new shadows upon you debuff in exalted angel? Last I checked it was tier 3 without an sp cost or cooldown set.

I presume that this will be a must-have twist.

From what I understand, it's just like the enervation archmage SLA except that shadows upon you costs more to cast, has a longer cooldown, and does less of a debuff.

[caellwin]

it seems +1 and +3 hearts no longer work with iconics

[EllisDee37]

it seems +1 and +3 hearts no longer work with iconics

At all, or just for changing the first level? If the former that's likely a bug, if the latter it's a major nerf.

[ssternlight]

it seems +1 and +3 hearts no longer work with iconics

Did you test this yourself or is it third hand info -- "seems"? Also, you state "iconics" in general. I'd think the screams could be heard in Boston by now. Not trying to diss just clarify.

[unbongwah]

it seems +1 and +3 hearts no longer work with iconics

Source? I wanted to take advantage of the HoW sale to fix one of my BF, but that's not gonna happen if they're bugged.

[Andoris]

it seems +1 and +3 hearts no longer work with iconics

This is incorrect information.

I just used a LR+1 on a Sun Elf iconic this morning.

[caellwin]

a guildy was trying to use a heart yesterday on a sunelf and it didnt work but if it worked for you then it just may have been him having issues

[kendo]

This is incorrect information.

I just used a LR+1 on a Sun Elf iconic this morning.

how did you do that? I used a +1 heart, logged out, logged in to reincarnate and it puts me to the usual character creation interface and I don't see anyway to say that I want to reincarnate as a sun elf with level one as a wizard

I exited before completing, because I didn't want to mess it up.

do you select wizard and your race remains sun elf, without having to select iconic?

[EllisDee37]

do you select wizard and your race remains sun elf, without having to select iconic?

Well, wizard is a class and sun elf is a race. Presumably you select your race and class in different choices. Also, LR can't change your race, so yes, choosing wizard won't change sun elf.

(Says the guy who's never LR'ed an iconic.)

[kendo]

Well, wizard is a class and sun elf is a race. Presumably you select your race and class in different choices. Also, LR can't change your race, so yes, choosing wizard won't change sun elf.

(Says the guy who's never LR'ed an iconic.)

sounds logical, from the guy who has also never LR'ed an Iconic that was the one way I could see doing it but didn't want to play around too much as things tend to break in DDO when you do

[Andoris]

how did you do that? I used a +1 heart, logged out, logged in to reincarnate and it puts me to the usual character creation interface and I don't see anyway to say that I want to reincarnate as a sun elf with level one as a wizard

I exited before completing, because I didn't want to mess it up.

do you select wizard and your race remains sun elf, without having to select iconic?

You have to change your class (ie the first one) in the character creation screen. It should be the screen right after race selection.

[kendo]

You have to change your class (ie the first one) in the character creation screen. It should be the screen right after race selection.

yep, that worked. first time through, it defaulted to cleric because of the iconic and I went on to the next screen. fortunately, all is good. I exited out before completing and just tried again. worked just fine, thanks all

[Andoris]

It looks like the +2 bonus DC's from "Wyrmic Focus" ability on the Thunderforged weapons does not stack with the Spell Augments (not sure if this is a bug or WAI -- dev comments from Lam could be taken either way)

As such best plan is to run a two-handed thunderforged quartstaff for DC casting -- thinking +12 Thunder-forged Quarterstaff 150 Nullification, +1 Unique Bonus to DC's, +6 Necro DC's, +17% Spell Lore (Red: 138 Combustion, Orange: Meridian Frag or Lightning/Cold SP, Colorless: Charisma +8?)

For Nuking one-handers are ideal. Current thought is 150 Nullification, +6 Necro DC's, +17% Spell Lore (Orange: Secondary Element), and 150 Primary element, +6 Evocation?, Eternal Chilling (Orange: Meridian Frag)

I revised the spell DC's on the first page to reflect the 1 point drop in DC's

Looks like lots of Shadow Dragon/Fire Dragon raids in my future.

Just got clarity from the Dev's on this: Looks like the Wyrmic Focus ability is going to be a bonus similar to the tablecloth and dragon cloak (ie useless).

As such I am planning on using the quarterstaff listed above for my primary weapon (hey at least Q-staffs don't have that annoying pig pen effect) and maybe doing a pair of tier 2 one-handers for dealing with Drow while epic leveling (+6 necro DC and a +7 spell penetration) .