Games feedback

[sirgog]

Only did one run, then had a look at the items available.

Thoughts on the actual course:

It was a somewhat fun minigame not related to DDO gameplay at all. However the doubling bonuses are really punishing to miss.

That said, this is going to be a fun diversion for 20 minutes or so, not something that will remain entertaining for long. As such the mote requirements seem far, far too high. The upgrade costs have been designed around running the event for hours on end, and it won't remain fun that long. (Mabar and Cove have of course had the same problems).

This concern will be allayed somewhat if there's other ways to get motes. Festivult is the best event in DDO for two reasons, the first being that it doesn't push you toward heavy repetition of some minigame that should only be a diversion from DDO's real gameplay.

Personally I'd like to see the Devs add motes to thematically chosen chests in-game. Prison of the Planes ice room, Tor white dragon, Prey on the Hunter chests, any chest that drops ice-themed items and so on. Keep the ice ramp as the only place to get recipes and let players that like the ramp event a lot run it more and trade off their spare recipes.


Thoughts on the current item upgrade recipes:

There's three things available at present. Note that I didn't have enough motes or recipes to actually make anything so I've not tested any of these.

First - there's a host of consumables (most notable being Fireshield potions and Lolth cookies). These are strong but require a fair number of motes, probably too many. The second reason Festivult is the best in-game event is that the consumables drop in such quantities that you don't feel you need to conserve them and you are happy to just waste them for a laugh.
Yet my first attempt didn't get enough motes for one of the Fireshield potions.

Second - there's eldritch rituals to add 1-10 Inherent Fire or Cold resist to a random lootgen item. (Example: You can turn Clever +8 Goggles of Spot +13 into Clever +8 Goggles of Spot +13 and Inherent Fire Resistance 10).
Edit: It appears these are restricted to weapons, shields, body armor, cloaks, helms, and maybe one or two other slots.
Now I'm one of those players that highly values stacking elemental resistances (especially cold with all the Niac's Biting Colds thrown at players), and these stack with everything that's actually used except Primal items or the (heroic or epic) Templar's Bulwark shield, so you'd think I'd like these.
However I'm not a huge fan of this implementation.
First, most players running lower level content would benefit more from a 30 resist item than a 10 inherent resist item.
Second, inherent resist 1 or 3 are just too small to be of interest to anyone, IMO. Especially when it is only one element.
Third, most players running high level content carry a swap-in Primal item (or can acquire one via the auction house for a comparable price to the motes for this upgrade) and Primal is just far better.

Suggestions:
Replace this entirely with the following upgrades, restricted to rings, cloaks, shields and body armor only (ie. where resist effects are usually available).
Tier 1: 10 cold resist AND 10 fire resist
Tier 2: 20 cold resist AND 20 fire resist. Adds 'Absolute Minimum Level: 8' to an item
Tier 3: 30 cold resist AND 30 fire resist. AML 16
Tier 4: 40 cold resist AND 40 fire resist. AML 24


Third - there's eldritch rituals to add 30-120 Glaciation to a random lootgen item. This does not appear restricted to weapons - if you've always wanted an Exceptional Stat +1/Omniscience/Glaciation 120 ring, or Stat +8/Warding/Glaciation 120, or Primal/Spell Proofing/Glaciation 120 armor, you can now get one.
These are just insanely powerful. Far more so than any previous event effect. Well-statted 108 single-element spellpower rings and even helmets are a fairly hotly traded commodity and can only have one suffix, now we can get 120 glaciation with both a prefix and a suffix. Edit: It appears these are restricted to weapons, shields, body armor, cloaks, helms, and maybe one or two other slots - my concerns still stand but examples are a little wrong.

Of course the biggest impact of having a best-in-slot item as an event-only item is that outside the event players will feel unable to roll a character of classes that would want that item (just as somewhat happened at the level 20 cap with armored AC tanks, if you didn't have a tier 3 Cavalry Plate you were hopelessly behind until Cove returned).

With that in mind I'm wary of this effect and would not be opposed to seeing it cap at lower than 120, at least until there are non-weapon slot alternatives for 114/120 glaciation. Also I think these should have minimum levels.


Thoughts on the upgrade process

Ugh. Recipes that are only available if you 'throw' a run, a need to go through every successive upgrade to get to the one you want - I really do not like this system at all.

Can we instead have a system that works like this:

- You get a recipe (say Glaciation 96). This recipe is able to upgrade a fresh item all the way to 96, or can be used to take an already partially upgraded item to 96 at a discount.
- Example: You have a Festival Glaciation 60 item, and a 'fresh' item. The fresh item might cost 1660 motes and a 96 recipe to upgrade to Festival Glaciation 96, and the one with Festival Glaciation 60 would cost the recipe plus 1000 motes.
- You can downgrade recipes if you wish (so if you have a Festival Glaciation 108 recipe but want to put 96 on an item you can downgrade your recipe).



Things that are missing:

I think the event should add the following:

- Some form of upgrade for melee characters. Perhaps Frost Touch/Frost/Icy Burst/Boreal that is restricted to only be used on 'standard' quality random lootgen (no 'blue quality' binds-on-equip items).
- Some pre-made ice-themed items that aren't very good but cover important basic effects for newer players. Think something like an ML 20 helmet with Heavy Fortification and Superior Cold Resistance, or an item with Resistance 5 and Greater False Life.
- Consumables that are silly, Festivult style.

[Shade]

Yea you didn't study the altar closely enough. There are severe restriction on what items can be upgraded.

Resists:
Armor/Shield only. (says clothing, but it refers to robes/outfits if you look closely, which fit the armor category imo)
Not googles like your example.

Glaciation:
Weapon/shield only.

[hit_fido]

Yea you didn't study the altar closely enough. There are severe restriction on what items can be upgraded.

That's a bummer. I was getting mildly excited, oh well. Do the resistance and glaciation upgrades increase the item's ML?

[Coldin]

Yea you didn't study the altar closely enough. There are severe restriction on what items can be upgraded.

Resists:
Armor/Shield only. (says clothing, but it refers to robes/outfits if you look closely, which fit the armor category imo)
Not googles like your example.

Glaciation:
Weapon/shield only.

I think there's separate recipes. One to put it on Armor. Another to put it on clothing. The upgrade recipes to get higher tiers. I'll have to go check though to verify.

[sirgog]

I think there's separate recipes. One to put it on Armor. Another to put it on clothing. The upgrade recipes to get higher tiers. I'll have to go check though to verify.

This.

There's a tier 1 recipe for each of armor, accessories and weapons (maybe shields too). Example: 'Put 30 Glaciation on an accessory' is a different recipe to 'put 30 Glaciation on a weapon'.

Then there's tier 2 and higher recipes that don't differentiate between item types. Example: 'Upgrade 30 Glaciation to 36' is just one recipe, whether used on a weapon, accessory or whatever.

I'm not certain that you can use *any* accessory (couldn't actually test one) but you definitely can use some slots that aren't weapons or shields.

[Shade]

This.

There's a tier 1 recipe for each of armor, accessories and weapons (maybe shields too). Example: 'Put 30 Glaciation on an accessory' is a different recipe to 'put 30 Glaciation on a weapon'.

Then there's tier 2 and higher recipes that don't differentiate between item types. Example: 'Upgrade 30 Glaciation to 36' is just one recipe, whether used on a weapon, accessory or whatever.

I'm not certain that you can use *any* accessory (couldn't actually test one) but you definitely can use some slots that aren't weapons or shields.

Incorrect.

Just double checked:
Glaciation:
Lists weapons, armor, shield and clothing. Clothing includes the same stuff from the AH category: only helmets, cloaks, belts and boots.. Not jewelery (EG: Your example - googgles, are considered jewelery).
Resists:
Lists armor, shield and clothing.

Wasn't clear what clothing meant, so I previously just moused over the icon and it said robe.. But I tested it this time to be sure how it actaully works:

Glaciation:
Accepts armor, shield and clothing only. Nothing else will even go in the altar, so you can't even try. Not even weapons which is specific says - bugged.

Resists:
Same, altar only takes armor shield and clothing. Though thats all thats listed for these, so its working correctly.

*altar = barter npc in this case, just used to the old terminology i guess.

[Shmuel]

Can these upgrades (Glaciation, inherent resistance etc) be put on any items of the category they are allowed for or only random lootgen items?

I don't think I have a single toon at endgame who does not have named or crafted armor/shield and weapons at this point.

[Dagolar]

Only did one run, then had a look at the items available.

Thoughts on the actual course:

It was a somewhat fun minigame not related to DDO gameplay at all. However the doubling bonuses are really punishing to miss.

That said, this is going to be a fun diversion for 20 minutes or so, not something that will remain entertaining for long. As such the mote requirements seem far, far too high. The upgrade costs have been designed around running the event for hours on end, and it won't remain fun that long. (Mabar and Cove have of course had the same problems).

This concern will be allayed somewhat if there's other ways to get motes. Festivult is the best event in DDO for two reasons, the first being that it doesn't push you toward heavy repetition of some minigame that should only be a diversion from DDO's real gameplay.

Personally I'd like to see the Devs add motes to thematically chosen chests in-game. Prison of the Planes ice room, Tor white dragon, Prey on the Hunter chests, any chest that drops ice-themed items and so on. Keep the ice ramp as the only place to get recipes and let players that like the ramp event a lot run it more and trade off their spare recipes.


Thoughts on the current item upgrade recipes:

There's three things available at present. Note that I didn't have enough motes or recipes to actually make anything so I've not tested any of these.

First - there's a host of consumables (most notable being Fireshield potions and Lolth cookies). These are strong but require a fair number of motes, probably too many. The second reason Festivult is the best in-game event is that the consumables drop in such quantities that you don't feel you need to conserve them and you are happy to just waste them for a laugh.
Yet my first attempt didn't get enough motes for one of the Fireshield potions.

Second - there's eldritch rituals to add 1-10 Inherent Fire or Cold resist to a random lootgen item. (Example: You can turn Clever +8 Goggles of Spot +13 into Clever +8 Goggles of Spot +13 and Inherent Fire Resistance 10).
Edit: It appears these are restricted to weapons, shields, body armor, cloaks, helms, and maybe one or two other slots.
Now I'm one of those players that highly values stacking elemental resistances (especially cold with all the Niac's Biting Colds thrown at players), and these stack with everything that's actually used except Primal items or the (heroic or epic) Templar's Bulwark shield, so you'd think I'd like these.
However I'm not a huge fan of this implementation.
First, most players running lower level content would benefit more from a 30 resist item than a 10 inherent resist item.
Second, inherent resist 1 or 3 are just too small to be of interest to anyone, IMO. Especially when it is only one element.
Third, most players running high level content carry a swap-in Primal item (or can acquire one via the auction house for a comparable price to the motes for this upgrade) and Primal is just far better.

Suggestions:
Replace this entirely with the following upgrades, restricted to rings, cloaks, shields and body armor only (ie. where resist effects are usually available).
Tier 1: 10 cold resist AND 10 fire resist
Tier 2: 20 cold resist AND 20 fire resist. Adds 'Absolute Minimum Level: 8' to an item
Tier 3: 30 cold resist AND 30 fire resist. AML 16
Tier 4: 40 cold resist AND 40 fire resist. AML 24


Third - there's eldritch rituals to add 30-120 Glaciation to a random lootgen item. This does not appear restricted to weapons - if you've always wanted an Exceptional Stat +1/Omniscience/Glaciation 120 ring, or Stat +8/Warding/Glaciation 120, or Primal/Spell Proofing/Glaciation 120 armor, you can now get one.
These are just insanely powerful. Far more so than any previous event effect. Well-statted 108 single-element spellpower rings and even helmets are a fairly hotly traded commodity and can only have one suffix, now we can get 120 glaciation with both a prefix and a suffix. Edit: It appears these are restricted to weapons, shields, body armor, cloaks, helms, and maybe one or two other slots - my concerns still stand but examples are a little wrong.

Of course the biggest impact of having a best-in-slot item as an event-only item is that outside the event players will feel unable to roll a character of classes that would want that item (just as somewhat happened at the level 20 cap with armored AC tanks, if you didn't have a tier 3 Cavalry Plate you were hopelessly behind until Cove returned).

With that in mind I'm wary of this effect and would not be opposed to seeing it cap at lower than 120, at least until there are non-weapon slot alternatives for 114/120 glaciation. Also I think these should have minimum levels.


Thoughts on the upgrade process

Ugh. Recipes that are only available if you 'throw' a run, a need to go through every successive upgrade to get to the one you want - I really do not like this system at all.

Can we instead have a system that works like this:

- You get a recipe (say Glaciation 96). This recipe is able to upgrade a fresh item all the way to 96, or can be used to take an already partially upgraded item to 96 at a discount.
- Example: You have a Festival Glaciation 60 item, and a 'fresh' item. The fresh item might cost 1660 motes and a 96 recipe to upgrade to Festival Glaciation 96, and the one with Festival Glaciation 60 would cost the recipe plus 1000 motes.
- You can downgrade recipes if you wish (so if you have a Festival Glaciation 108 recipe but want to put 96 on an item you can downgrade your recipe).



Things that are missing:

I think the event should add the following:

- Some form of upgrade for melee characters. Perhaps Frost Touch/Frost/Icy Burst/Boreal that is restricted to only be used on 'standard' quality random lootgen (no 'blue quality' binds-on-equip items).
- Some pre-made ice-themed items that aren't very good but cover important basic effects for newer players. Think something like an ML 20 helmet with Heavy Fortification and Superior Cold Resistance, or an item with Resistance 5 and Greater False Life.
- Consumables that are silly, Festivult style.

I agree with the thematic chest ingredient placement, the elemental resist limitations, and the 'Things that are Missing' section.
However, I don't feel any concern over Glaciation, especially since the old Risia max Glaciation effect had exactly the same relative potency, and nothing broke over it. Besides, for casters, who need maximum spellpower on their items, dropping the recipe down any would only make casters not want to farm it. It's a delicate balance, and I believe the current setup works well enough for it. Besides, if it works the same as the old Risia games, if you want to add Glaciation onto an item without any Glaciation already on it, you have to add in -every single Glaciation tier one by one-. So yeah, you earn that spellpower bonus.

[Kamode_Corebasher]

Thank you Sirgog and Shade for gathering this info...MUCH appreciated.

I can't wait to put Glaciation(120) on my lootgen helm!

[sirgog]

Can these upgrades (Glaciation, inherent resistance etc) be put on any items of the category they are allowed for or only random lootgen items?

I don't think I have a single toon at endgame who does not have named or crafted armor/shield and weapons at this point.

Random lootgen only.

However random lootgen is arguably best in slot for caster stat sticks, and while that isn't true for most other slots, adding 120 Glaciation onto already good items pushes many of them to BiS.

I'm not a fan at all of BiS items that require you to play during a particular event to get them. Miss a month because of illness/family/moving house and losing net/whatever? You're now unrecoverably behind.

[FestusHood]

Is this event in addition to, or a replacement for the harbor ice ramps? Are they the same motes?

[Dagolar]

Random lootgen only.

However random lootgen is arguably best in slot for caster stat sticks, and while that isn't true for most other slots, adding 120 Glaciation onto already good items pushes many of them to BiS.

I'm not a fan at all of BiS items that require you to play during a particular event to get them. Miss a month because of illness/family/moving house and losing net/whatever? You're now unrecoverably behind.

If they were one-time events, or if the benefit was impossible to gain elsewhere, I'd fullyheartedly agree.
But, by equipping another Spellpower item, what you're losing out on items isn't the Spellpower, it's the 'other effect' of the lootgen you attach it to, and the versatility of placing it on the slot of your choice, sans some limitations.

So you lose a random suffix. It means you're not as good, yes, but you're not in any way "unrecoverably behind".
The only way that sentiment makes sense is if you play with all maxed life toons, and then, mathematically, it still doesn't work out to "unrecoverably behind", simply to "not maxed out".

If it ever worked out to a true power imbalance, I'd agree with you. And perhaps they should have token drops from thematic enemies year-round, and keep the vendor and altar up, to address the concerns you brought up.

So, again. Not poking at your point in any way, it's a good one. It's just not as dire as you suggest.

The unique effects of the ice games are what keeps people at them- especially since most people I've known couldn't stand the Risia games. It's a fun crafting system that enhances the rest of the gear system, without notably imbalancing anything: Just think of it as an event that gives you a named item with the specs of that lootgen you used plus the Glaciation. So, your actual point would be more against limited time events in general, since Cove has similarly potent items.

I think, rather, the solution there is either more accessible options as I mentioned above, or simply the addition of more events until we can get a year round cycle going.

Is this event in addition to, or a replacement for the harbor ice ramps? Are they the same motes?

It's in addition. I can't answer the second question.

[Tolero]

Is this event in addition to, or a replacement for the harbor ice ramps? Are they the same motes?

It's in addition. I can't answer the second question.

The same motes work in both events.

[patang01]

While I find it interesting to be able to put 120 spell power on a item, the idea of having to upgrade them from lowest to highest when you have to use TP to get tokens and do a 'bad run' in order to get lower end recipies.

The relative success of your run seems to coincide with how good of a recipe you pull.

And with better runs you get more motes. You don't think anyone would like to do poorly and screw themselves mote and token wise just to be able to upgrade from scratch to 120?

That seems like an abysmally poor fuction.

[FestusHood]

While I find it interesting to be able to put 120 spell power on a item, the idea of having to upgrade them from lowest to highest when you have to use TP to get tokens and do a 'bad run' in order to get lower end recipies.

The relative success of your run seems to coincide with how good of a recipe you pull.

And with better runs you get more motes. You don't think anyone would like to do poorly and screw themselves mote and token wise just to be able to upgrade from scratch to 120?

That seems like an abysmally poor fuction.

Tolero just said that these recipes use the same motes as those you get from the harbor. So getting motes shouldn't be a problem.

Now i'm curious if the Eveningstar recipes which take the glaciation effect to 120 are a continuation of the ones gained from harbor coin turn ins, or are they a completely separate process. Common sense tells me they are a continuation, but i can be uncommonly senseless at times.