Silver Flame Talisman - Protection from Evil effect is broken and does nothing

[Wraith_Sarevok]

The Protection from Evil effect found on the Silver Flame Talisman (Tier 3 upgrade) has been broken for years and does absolutely nothing. All testing shows that the item does not block Greater Command or Dominate Monster cast by evil-aligned casters.

The combat log entry for the Fragment of the Silver Flame lists that you benefit from Protection from Evil as seen in the screenshot below. The combat log entry for the Silver Flame Talisman does not report this. Testing against evil-aligned gnoll casters at Mount Reysalon also proves that the fragment blocks Greater Command. The talisman does not provide any such immunity and I constantly get Greater Commanded.

I submitted a similarly-named bug report with attached screenshot.


Other Protection from Evil items and buffs that are broken in the same way:

* Silver Flame Priest Contact - Silver Flame Purity (buff is supposed to grant Protection From Evil, but has no real effect - bugged)
* Mournlode Chain Shirt (lvl 12, 16, and 20 versions)


Evidence: In the screenshot below, you can see that I have the talisman equipped and my fragment is on my hotbar just below and to the right. I equipped the fragment after the talisman. I then removed the fragment and the combat log reports that I lost the Protection from Evil effect.






Please fix this bug because it's super annoying to me and many others!

[aristarchus1000]

/signed

and thanks for documenting the bug so well!

[-Zephyr-]

A dev commented on this long ago... And it's the spell that's bugged, not the items. Protection from evil is NOT supposed to block command/greater command, and will be fixed *eventually*.

So, unless the dev position on this has changed, don't expect the talisman to get a boost, but enjoy the spell being more powerful that it is supposed to be while it remains this way.

[Alexandryte]

A dev commented on this long ago... And it's the spell that's bugged, not the items. Protection from evil is NOT supposed to block command/greater command, and will be fixed *eventually*.

So, unless the dev position on this has changed, don't expect the talisman to get a boost, but enjoy the spell being more powerful that it is supposed to be while it remains this way.

Its also worth noting that tomes were stated to never carry over for TRing, then it changed to "we are thinking about it", to "hey tomes will carry over".

As it stands there is very little reason to cast the spell if it did not provide some benefit other than +2 deflection bonus and +2 resistance bonus. As stated in the spell itself its suppose to block mental compulsions, and while I dont know about you, I seldom feel like lying down prone in front of enemies is a good tactic ^_^

[-Zephyr-]

Its also worth noting that tomes were stated to never carry over for TRing, then it changed to "we are thinking about it", to "hey tomes will carry over".

As it stands there is very little reason to cast the spell if it did not provide some benefit other than +2 deflection bonus and +2 resistance bonus. As stated in the spell itself its suppose to block mental compulsions, and while I dont know about you, I seldom feel like lying down prone in front of enemies is a good tactic ^_^

Just reporting the last dev comment I saw about this subject.
It's worth noticing that at that time, the +2 resistance to saves stacked with everything. But with saves bonus changed due to the madness armor, I don't know if it still does.

Anyway, the way it was said was that the spell would be fixed, but that it wasn't a top priority at that time. Just like the active barbarian past life that remained broken (positively for players) for years before a fix came out of nowhere, with little warning.

[Ukenburger]

The last thing from Turbine in regards to how they want Protection from Evil to work is in the Module 3 Release Notes.

Protection from Evil has been fixed to work correctly. It no longer protects against *all* charms and compulsions (including Otto's, command, hold monster/person, etc). Rather, it only protects against charms and compulsions that give ongoing mental control, such as the vampire's dominate ability. Also, as per D&D rules, it no longer protects against mental control from just evil creatures, but ALL mental control, regardless of the target's alignment.

The items and Ship Buff are wrong because they should be granting you immunity to Charm effects (Psionic Domination, Change of Heart, etc.).

The spell is wrong because it should not be granting you immunity to Command and Greater Command.

Also, notice that the combat text has the wrong description. It states "You are immune from mental control from evil creatures" when it should not have the "evil creatures" addendum.



The history of why the items have been broken for so long? The item version (and Ship Buff version) of Protection from Evil are a near-direct copy of the item effect Chaosguard. The only change dev Graal made was he swapped the deflection and resistance bonus from Chaotic to a deflection and resistance bonus from Evil, and completely forgot the other aspects of the spell-version of Protection from Evil.

[Solmage]

"[...]or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects[....]"

"Command
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]"

"You give the subject a single command [...]"


It would appear that protection from evil, the spell, is indeed supposed to protect vs command and greater command, at least by RAW. However, by RAW it's not supposed to stack with existing such bonuses, which it does.

Frankly though, I'd say let it stack and just add the protection to the items. However, I can totally understand how this trivializes a decent will save.

If, in-spite of what RAW says protection gets changed to no longer protect against command and such, then enemy casters should be rebalanced so that IF the fighter/barb/whatever is not neglecting his will save completely, he has a decent chance to make a save. This may also require re-evaluating all existing loot to make sure +5 resists (and sometimes better) are not given out like candy.

[Sarisa]

Command does not work according to the PnP rules in DDO.

In DDO, Command has a single option, the equivalent of "Lie Down" in PnP. Command in DDO has a recurring save, PnP does not. DDO's Command could be interpreted as ongoing control because they must make a save or let the time run out in order to get up and break out of the Command.

[MrCow]

DDO has taken the stance that most single compulsive acts ("Sit", "Dance", "Freeze", "Hold") are not ongoing control, they are just effects that linger until you force yourself to stop. Charm seems to be the only compulsion they consider ongoing control, as theoretically the things you are forced to do could change ("Be helpless" proceeded by "Attack your friend", although that was never implemented).

Command in DDO has a recurring save, PnP does not.

Just as a correction, Command does not have a reoccurring save, Greater Command does.

[Solmage]

DDO has taken the stance that most single compulsive acts ("Sit", "Dance", "Freeze", "Hold") are not ongoing control, they are just effects that linger until you force yourself to stop. Charm seems to be the only compulsion they consider ongoing control, as theoretically the things you are forced to do could change ("Be helpless" proceeded by "Attack your friend", although that was never implemented).



Just as a correction, Command does not have a reoccurring save, Greater Command does.

It can be argued that dancing is a sudden urge as opposed to a command, based on how those 2 spells are written, like experiencing the great desire to eat as opposed to being ordered to eat. In this case, protection from evil should not protect vs irresistible/resistible dancing, but should protect vs anything that commands you to dance.

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

Why people still compare D&D PnP with DDO, still baffles me.

[JeisonBlade]

Ok, I'm a bit confused now. So exactly what bonuses/immunities does protection from evil currently give you? (by that I mean not what SHOULD it protect you from, but if i cast it/equip an item with it, what am I really immune to? I always assumed that +2 bonus was benig overriden by my Resistance +5 items, am I actually getting that bonus tho?) I've been casting it almost as a reflex all this time since so many people have been demanding it, I'd like to know just what its worth.

[MrkGrismer]

Ok, I'm a bit confused now. So exactly what bonuses/immunities does protection from evil currently give you? (by that I mean not what SHOULD it protect you from, but if i cast it/equip an item with it, what am I really immune to? I always assumed that +2 bonus was benig overriden by my Resistance +5 items, am I actually getting that bonus tho?) I've been casting it almost as a reflex all this time since so many people have been demanding it, I'd like to know just what its worth.

If I understand correctly:

Item or ship buff: Dominate and Charm Person Immunity
Spell: Dominate, Charm Person, Command and Greater Command (because it is bugged)

Does not protect from Succubi effect.

If I am wrong please correct me.

[Postumus]

Why people still compare D&D PnP with DDO, still baffles me.

The devs obviously don't share your bafflement.

[Wraith_Sarevok]

It's been a while... and about time I updated this.

Added the ship buff (can't test it currently but I remember trying it a long time ago and it didn't work).

Added Mournlode chain shirt. Tested the epic version - bugged. Did not test the other two, but I think it's safe to say that they're also broken.

STILL waiting on developers to recognize this problem and put it on their known issues list.

If I understand correctly:

Item or ship buff: Dominate and Charm Person Immunity
Spell: Dominate, Charm Person, Command and Greater Command (because it is bugged)

Does not protect from Succubi effect.

If I am wrong please correct me.

That's not exactly how it works.

The spell and Fragment of the Silver Flame both grant +2 deflection AC bonus and +2 resistance bonus to all saves against evil creatures, and provide immunity to Dominate Person/Monster, Command, and Greater Command from all creatures.

The items and ship buff only grant the +2 AC and +2 resistance bonus to saves against evil creatures, but no immunities.

[Aeolwind]

I thought the ship buff was broken completely and didn't even give the +2ac/res?

[Astraghal]

The spell came out first right? The spell in DDO blocks Command/Greater Command. The Fragment of the Silver Flame came out next right? According to the OP, that also blocks Command/Greater Command. Subsequent incarnations of the effect do not block Command/Greater Command. What comes first sets the precedent. Draw your own conclusions. But please Turbine, make your arbitrary decision soon, so we can move on from this.

[Ivan_Milic]

Still not fixed?

[EllisDee37]

Protection From Evil WANDS no longer protect against greater command, and I can only assume command as well.

[Astraghal]

But please Turbine, make your arbitrary decision soon, so we can move on from this.

Looks like they've taken this advice.