Necromancer / Archmage Final Endgame Items - Post Update 15 (At least 1 tr needed)

[Tobril]

Just use the Staff of the Petitioner for buffing...screw equipping 3 items for that!

Can't do that and keep your big 120 spellpower stick(s)
in your hands at the same time. Buffing though it works fine.


Green armour is also a workable solution if perhaps a bit
more expensive to craft.

[Matuse]

If DR/evil cannot be bypassed by any mobs.... why didn't the dev just make it "DR 15/-". This would make it a DR that is truly unbreakable by any means.

Why even put the "evil" damage bypass on it?

Flavor, stacking issues, PvP, and maybe someday they'll fix it so that monsters who are supposed to break it, will in fact break it. Archers with pure evil bows, pit fiends, horned devils, bezekira, bearded devils, mariliths, hezrou, and glabrezu should all be able to do it. That's just the monsters who actually exist in DDO and PnP. Reavers/Renders/Flensers are DDO only, but they could be ranked high enough as demons that they should get /Evil bypass.

If they ever expand Shavarath and include quests against Celestials, then they should be able to puncture /Good DR. A fight against a Solar would be quite amusing. They are to pit fiends as pit fiends are to kobolds.

For pvp? Maybe. Someone hits you with an unholy burst sword and it deals evil damage to you so it bypasses?

Unholy, Evil Burst, Evil Blast, any greensteel weapon.

Currently, the highest non blocking item property DR is DR 10/adamantine (stone skin) and DR 10/good (night cloak 24).

A Warforged Favored Soul can get 15/Adamantine, and any pure Favored Soul will get 10/something.

I've had a Drow Vulkoor FvS and a Human SovHost FvS with 10/Good and 10/Cold Iron respectively. Neither have ever had that DR broken, and Orthons -should- be breaking /Cold Iron with their polearms. Orthons are the designated demon fighters, and so use cold iron for DR purposes.

[slimkj]

Yeah my point was it's easy to get (I forgot to say that) and has a good set bonus you can make use of - either as a swap in, or if you had crappy luck with raid loot on your way to cap, or until you get the stuff you want.

Not saying it's the best, just it might be worth thinking about as an option, particularly if you're rolling a fresh wizard with zero TRdaddy goodness.

[DynaTheCat]

Flavor, stacking issues, PvP, and maybe someday they'll fix it so that monsters who are supposed to break it, will in fact break it. Archers with pure evil bows, pit fiends, horned devils, bezekira, bearded devils, mariliths, hezrou, and glabrezu should all be able to do it. That's just the monsters who actually exist in DDO and PnP. Reavers/Renders/Flensers are DDO only, but they could be ranked high enough as demons that they should get /Evil bypass.

That's actually exactly the mobs I was going to test it on. Supposedly most evil outsiders break DR / evil. Will try later. Orthon cleave supposedly will. Barbazus supposedly all do. I mean, not a whole lotta mobs will break DR / evil but definitely more than will break DR / good.

Yeah, my point with the pvp is..... it probably wasn't the focus for the DR 15/evil. Most likely just a nod to evil outsiders breaking it or just simply for item face value / theme flow.

A Warforged Favored Soul can get 15/Adamantine, and any pure Favored Soul will get 10/something.

Yeah... it's kinda why I made a deal about the 15/evil being a "highest non blocking item property". Cuz... technically blocking with a shield gonna give you a lot more DR than 15 and enhancements yap.

[DynaTheCat]

Yeah my point was it's easy to get (I forgot to say that) and has a good set bonus you can make use of - either as a swap in, or if you had crappy luck with raid loot on your way to cap, or until you get the stuff you want.

Not saying it's the best, just it might be worth thinking about as an option, particularly if you're rolling a fresh wizard with zero TRdaddy goodness.

Oh yap... well definitely if I can't get the Green steel I want or Sands items, I'd probably go war wizards.

[EllisDee37]

I suspect DR/Evil is currently bugged but even if it gets fixed it will still be solid.

Regardless, this conversation has made me realize that the DR 15/Lawful ring is probably the best passive DR in the game by a country mile. I get that super evil mobs (evil outsiders, etc...) should probably break evil dr, but is there even any such thing as a super lawful mob? Marut, maybe?

A definite upgrade and easy swap for anyone with an epic ring of the mire, for sure.

EDIT: The only real question I have about dr/evil is devil assault, chronoscope, mariliths, and the demonweb quests & raids. Having trouble thinking of any other endgame (ie: epic) evil outsiders.

I was going to say ADQ, but then I remembered that there is a marilith in epic buying time, which is where I do most of my token farming. Oh yeah, and short cuts is probably the easiest way to test on high-power epic evil outsiders. I think you can run straight to a horned devil, even. aka Suulomades.

[HalfORCastrator]

One thing about the War Wizard set is that it has the GS sp bonus, so if you have a new caster you can make your HP item and slot the set(my sorc uses Spidersilk with set bonus right now) until you get your 20 completions for a cleanser.

[Matuse]

Regardless, this conversation has made me realize that the DR 15/Lawful ring is probably the best passive DR in the game by a country mile. I get that super evil mobs (evil outsiders, etc...) should probably break evil dr, but is there even any such thing as a super lawful mob? Marut, maybe?

The same devils that break /Evil would also break /Law if they were working correctly.

Monks (really that's only in Monestary of the Scorpion) get /Law in their unarmed attacks.

Maruts...maybe? It would seem like they would.

[EllisDee37]

Breaking News! DR/Evil does NOT appear to be bugged.

With the game back online, I went into short cuts to test DR/Evil on a horned devil. And silly me, I realized that as a pally I can just cast the Angelskin spell for DR 5/Evil, meaning I wasted 20k on that necro3 turn-in. heh. (I did spend time to test that both the spell and the turn-in were working the same.)

Check out Mr. Horned Devil from CR25 Short Cuts:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


So clearly, some mobs do indeed break DR/Evil. I tried on the other named boss in there, the Succubus. Interestingly, she breaks the dr when meleeing, but at one point she walked away and pulled out her bow. Her bow does NOT break DR/Evil.

Then in a final test I went to the vale explorer. Orthons and Bearded Devils in the Vale do indeed break DR/Evil.

It looked to me like Evil Outsiders break DR/Evil while meleeing, but not ranging.

Then as a final bit of confusion, Bezekiras did NOT break it. So it can't just be all evil outsiders.

EDIT: I started a research thread here.

[DynaTheCat]

Good Job man. Thx for confirming and updating. I've been.... lazy....lobster pvping... lol....

[EllisDee37]

Good Job man. Thx for confirming and updating. I've been.... lazy....lobster pvping... lol....

I'm actually very curious about DR/Evil in PVP. My suspicion is that nothing in the game will break DR/Evil except "being a powerful evil outsider."

If that's true, then players with greensteel, crafted eladrin beaters, and epic evil weapons (obscenity, supreme evil, whatever) won't be able to bypass it.

Wouldn't hate it if you tested those three possibilities...heh. I can and eventually will, but it'll be a while before I get to it. DR/Lawful is my next test after finishing DR/Evil. I suspect it will be "powerful lawful outsiders." I've already got a pair of thaarak bracers to test with.

[DynaTheCat]

Got... bored on my day off. So, made some show off pics. Cuz... everyone is showing off with stupid things like tea and stuff, so I might as well join the show off bus too. :/

Not highest int.......... can get about 8-10 more (unsustainable) from what I know. But meh, good enuff atm.

My current look... and evil arcanist lady.... lol and my glittery gargoyle pet Graymalkin....

I started a pet collection cuz I had nothing better to do with my plat.... but garg is my fav. Just matches my pale's theme.


Just some possible int with a few un-sustainables using magister


Highest spell power in shiradi... but can increase more.... but need sorc past life feat and another 45 spell power is possible if you twist a battering spell craft.



Yeah, was pretty bored..... but not bored enuff I guess.

Will be posting U-17 possible item changes / review sometime later.

As a note: I am using the 1st page gear, I have everything except epic torc and epic demon consorts. Only using the base items atm. And.. the procs still work the same and well.

[DynaTheCat]

My idea of Endgame WF AM gear

Open for suggestions / review... make sure to check gain vs loss / have an alternative item if you're suggesting different.

Should look something like this:

Head: Flawless blue dragonscale helm +3 insightful Int
Goggles: Intricate Field optics +8 int
Neck: Epic Torc of Raiyum
Trinket: Litany of the dead
Cloak: Mabar's Epic Night Cloak OR, Ghost Waking Cloak (Ghostly + Displacement grants 55% miss (1-0.5*0.9 = 0.55).
Armor: Flawless Blue Dragon Docent
Belt: Epic lion headed belt
Boots: Epic Rock boots T3
Gloves: Supreme Tyrant Gloves of Concordant Opposition
Bracers: Mineral II Bracers
2-hand Weapon: Twilight, Element of Magic
Ring1: Master artificer ring
Ring2: Rand Gen / Crafted Exp fort ring.

Some views:

Master artificer ring - Probably THE ring for WF AM.

Flawless Blue Dragon Docent & Flawless blue dragon helm
As a WF AM, you cannot use a docent of shadows... this means you'll have to find your own source of major necromancy DC.

However, not being able to use docent of shadows opens up a slot to use flawless Blue dragon docent and helm. And since your helm will cover the +3 int, your docent will cover greater spell pen 9; you are now open to take out Planar Focus Erudition for a Litany of the dead!

The additional +1 Profane int from Litany will cover a +3 major necro loss if you slot a +2 greater necromancy focus augment. Also, the artifact spell power bonus from Blue dragon docent and helm will cover the Planar focus spell power loss.

Epic lion headed belt : Why use this? the roar procs a -2 shaken to mobs. Since, your blue docent covers major arcane lore; your belt slot is open for other procs instead of a rahkir's belt / ring.

Twilight element of magic - Even at T1 this staff will cover your +3 evocation and +3 enchantment needs. Also, the +120 force damage will help your Shiradi (best caster ED) force proc dmg. At T4, you will gain another +120 elemental power of your choice and an additional +114 red augment element.

The 2 GS I propose will cover your Heavy fort (Min II bracers), Concordant opp (Gloves), and 1-3 HP/SP elemental bonus. You might have to tinker a bit to get your fort above 100% for some endgame mobs that sunder you. I believe light fortification feat WF have will help a bit with the additional 25% fort. Pales have no problems with this as their lich form gets a stackable 100% fort already... leaving us with 200%.

You may be able to get an crafted exceptional fort ring for the ring slot, and that should cover your EXP fort needs.

End

As an AM, a major drawback vs pales is the missing of the "demonic life shield" procs you get from lich form and demon consorts bracers. You also cannot benefit from the "boon of undeath" effect... and you don't have a constant healing death aura.

However, your can reconstruct yourself to heal a good amount of dmg and also the master artificer's ring can proc a cl9 reconstruct on you at a 2% rate. You can also wear a Litany being free of the use of Docent of shadows. Also, due to your major arcane lore from blue dragon docent, your belt slot is free from Rahkir's and can proc a shaken effect from Epic lion headed belt (aiding your dc efforts).

[EllisDee37]

However, not being able to use docent of shadows opens up a slot to use flawless Blue dragon docent and helm. And since your helm will cover the +3 int, your docent will cover greater spell pen 9; you are now open to take out Planar Focus Erudition for a Litany of the dead!

Planar focus is only spell pen IX, not greater, so it's not really that great. Greater spell pen IX also comes on cloak or belt if not using flawless blue. Litany is better than planar focus regardless of robe.

For gianthold and high road -- ie: the current endgame -- ghost-waking is better than cloak of night. They're roughly the same in CitW.

[DynaTheCat]

Planar focus is only spell pen IX, not greater, so it's not really that great. Greater spell pen IX also comes on cloak or belt if not using flawless blue. Litany is better than planar focus regardless of robe.

For gianthold and high road -- ie: the current endgame -- ghost-waking is better than cloak of night. They're roughly the same in CitW.

Yeah i know, the blue robes are 1 higher spell pen than the planar. I feel litany is sacrificing too much vs the planar, but I can see why the +1 int might be enticing instead of a spell pen and universal.

I considered ghost-waking for the WF AM....it's a possible trade because

Ghost Waking
Charisma +8
Resistance +7
Ghostly
DR 15/Evil

vs.

Cloak of night
Invisibility Guard
Ghostly
Deathblock
Nightmare Guard
Dodge Bonus 3%
DR 10/Good


Lose the 3% dodge for Resist +7, might be a nice trade.

I still think DR 10/good way better than DR 15/evil, but; it's still debatable.

The +8 CHA is also nice for UMD.

Death block in the build is provided by the night cloak. Albeit, cloak DB does not stop neg dmg or prevent neg levels. Still need death ward for that cuz WF does not have undead form.

It's a toss up. If you want more resist & umd, use ghost waking cloak.

If you want more dodge & DB, use night cloak.

I updated the list with ghost waking option.



Any more inputs people... LOOLLll....

[EllisDee37]

Yeah i know, the blue robes are 1 higher spell pen than the planar.

For context, this is the same advantage as planar has over ship buffs. However much value you feel sp9 on planar has, gsp9 has double that value.

Is this gearset for EE, btw? I think enervation guard is viewed as clearly superior to concop for EE. Also of note is that the piddly DR/15 or 10 is likely irrelevant in EE, so the cloaks become essentially Cha +8 vs Dodge 3%. (Either paired with a green augment matches the other's resistance +7 and deathblock.)

I rather like how you slotted the second GS item into the bracers slot, btw. That choice seems perfect. (With gloves being the logical main GS slot for any wizard.)

[DynaTheCat]

For context, this is the same advantage as planar has over ship buffs. However much value you feel sp9 on planar has, gsp9 has double that value.

Is this gearset for EE, btw? I think enervation guard is viewed as clearly superior to concop for EE. Also of note is that the piddly DR/15 or 10 is likely irrelevant in EE, so the cloaks become essentially Cha +8 vs Dodge 3%. (Either paired with a green augment matches the other's resistance +7 and deathblock.)

I rather like how you slotted the second GS item into the bracers slot, btw. That choice seems perfect. (With gloves being the logical main GS slot for any wizard.)

Well, the reason I value Planar focus in my pale build is because there is no other Spell Pen 9 provided in the pale build if you don't use it. Albeit, after a few wizard / fvs TRs, having the additional spell pen may be irrelevant. At that time, the change may be for Litany. I'll make the Litany suggestion in list for those that TR a lot.

The WF AM build is for EE. The problem with enervation guard is 3 things:

Proc rate: 5% chance when hit to drain 1d4 levels

Epic ward: Epic enemies recover from Negative levels faster than in non-epic quests 1 negative level every 3 seconds

Green steel construction: You have to use Str & Int (neg) or Dex & int (fire) for the construction.




I'd rather have the conc opp CHA skill bonus (for resurrection / raise dead scroll umd) and procced sp/hp (at least I can keep it when it procs).

The main thing is the epic ward problem. If you're not immediately fingering a mob right after you neg it, the neg goes away fast. And, when you're hit in EE by a melee for... 100-150, especially if you're a WF wiz with no hp procs or consistent death aura healing; you're going to want a quick reconstruct.

Also... endgame EE play for wizzies and sorcs now is Shiradi kiting (espcially GH). I'd much rather not be hit and, if I am hit, I'd rather have a chance to proc an hp shield.

[EllisDee37]

Makes sense on the concop.

Regarding sp item on the pale build, the one listed in the OP appears to have neither a +8 int item nor litany. That should probably be revised. Three gs items is overkill, I think, and it's especially troublesome that two of them take up the precious head/eyes slots. Just one (gloves) will suffice.

[DynaTheCat]

Makes sense on the concop.

Regarding sp item on the pale build, the one listed in the OP appears to have neither a +8 int item nor litany. That should probably be revised. Three gs items is overkill, I think, and it's especially troublesome that two of them take up the precious head/eyes slots. Just one (gloves) will suffice.

+8 int is in rand gen ring.

Also... I forgot that the +3 insight int is from the planar.... so ya scratch that litany.


However.....

You can replace the MIN II goggles with intricate field optics +3 insightful int.

Then, move MIN II to the helm, then you can take out planar focus for a litany.

Hmm....

[DynaTheCat]

There's a reason I kinda like Nightcloak 3% Dodge

I've been thinking of adding 2 monk to my wiz. I'd pop a 4% dodge feat and a toughness for the 2 monk feats I get. Then the Evasion for reflex and the additional saves from the 2 monk lvls.

I have actually thought about replacing Rock boots with Sure footed boots for the 2% dodge you get from the mobility feat.

A splash mnk 2 also gives:
Lesser Ocean Stance: The eternal ocean focuses on redirection and the supernatural. Lesser Ocean Stance grants +2 Wisdom, +1% dodge, and +2 to all Saving Throws at a cost of -2 Strength. (check me if I'm wrong).

4% inspire heroics (if you have bard in party)

If magister, Unearthly reaction for: 3% dodge
If Shiradi, In the weeds for 3% dodge and an additional 3% if standing still.

You can also swap in a +7 con seal of dun robar that will provide 4% item dodge.




So, let's use shiradi ED base.

With the 3% from night cloak, 3% in the weeds, 4% dodge feat, 2% mobility feat (sure footed), 1% haste, 1% Eldritch armor ritual, 1% lesser ocean stance, 4% dun robar ring = %19 additional dodge chance on top of 55% displacement + ghostly.

If you stand still (unlikely in EE) and also get a bard's inspire heroics, the dodge chance changes to 19% + 3% in the weeds (standing) + 4% inspire = 26% dodge and over the max cap dodge of 25%

This is without twisting any dodge from magister or grand master.



Let's do a dodge max check: (Using wraith form)

25% incorp + 50% displacement (conceal) + 25% dodge = 1-(0.5*0.75*0.75) = 1-0.28 = 72% effective miss chance. (check my math, cats hate math)

Max dodge without wraith form

10% incorp + 50% displacement (conceal) + 25% dodge = 1-(0.5*0.9*0.75) = 1 - 0.3375 = 66-65% miss chance.

With this in mind, it might be viable..... to keep a wraith form handy. If you wish to solo EE more efficiently and you're about to solo a group battle. (EE tor 1st room, EE stay at inn first area, etc) Albeit, Probably rather have the 66% with the additional lich life shield proc, con, and int bonus.