Lets talk about twists for Fury

[Uhtred_Stark]

So after playing thru the excellent fury of the wild tree on a barbarian and branching out to other EDs I am curious what other adherants of the fury plan to twist. Some interesting ones I have come across.....

Legendary Dreadnought - Lots of good stuff here to consider.

Tier 1 - Sundering swing and Legendary tactics
Tier 3 - Action boost haste, Critical Dmg, Lay waste

Both sundering swing and legendary tactics have a lot of practical application. Improved sundering on every swing? +6 to stunning blow and trip? Both would have lots of use. The tier 3 feats would be too expensive to take more than one so it would require a tough choice. Haste boost looks great on paper, 30% attack speed, but it has the same counter as dmg boost does so you can never have both going at the same time. That's a draw back. +6 crit dmg is obviously very nice, the equivalent to 12 more strength. Lay waste is just a great feat that does multiple things with high dmg and cc plus it has great regen synergy with a barbarian cleave/supreme cleave.

Grandmaster of Flowers - couple tier 2 intriguing ones

Tier 2 - Hail of Blows and Running with the wind. One gives you 3% doublestrike chance while the other gives you +30% movement speed.

Exhalted Angel - several tier 3s, but the high cost of tier 3 might not make these a serious consideration. I really wish these were tier 2s

Tier 3 - Smite the wicked for another nice dmg causing clickie that could turn into monster dmg on a 20. Renewal is a nice heal clicky and purity of essence gives 10% more healing amp. I really like the idea of renewal but it probably costs too much.

Unyielding Sentinal - a lot of this is defensive but still a couple options

Tier 1 - Bane of Undeath, pretty powerful for a tier 1 feat. Too bad there arent that many epic undead.
Tier 3 - Healing hands getting lay on hands on a barbarian would be nice. I haven't tried this though so I don't know if you get only one use and does it even heal that much with a lowish charisma?

Those are the ones I have tried or am aspiring to try. What other twists are you thinking of working in?

[wax_on_wax_off]

So after playing thru the excellent fury of the wild tree on a barbarian and branching out to other EDs I am curious what other adherants of the fury plan to twist. Some interesting ones I have come across.....

Legendary Dreadnought - Lots of good stuff here to consider.

Tier 1 - Sundering swing and Legendary tactics
Tier 3 - Action boost haste, Critical Dmg, Lay waste

Both sundering swing and legendary tactics have a lot of practical application. Improved sundering on every swing? +6 to stunning blow and trip? Both would have lots of use. The tier 3 feats would be too expensive to take more than one so it would require a tough choice. Haste boost looks great on paper, 30% attack speed, but it has the same counter as dmg boost does so you can never have both going at the same time. That's a draw back. +6 crit dmg is obviously very nice, the equivalent to 12 more strength. Lay waste is just a great feat that does multiple things with high dmg and cc plus it has great regen synergy with a barbarian cleave/supreme cleave.

Grandmaster of Flowers - couple tier 2 intriguing ones

Tier 2 - Hail of Blows and Running with the wind. One gives you 3% doublestrike chance while the other gives you +30% movement speed.

Exhalted Angel - several tier 3s, but the high cost of tier 3 might not make these a serious consideration. I really wish these were tier 2s

Tier 3 - Smite the wicked for another nice dmg causing clickie that could turn into monster dmg on a 20. Renewal is a nice heal clicky and purity of essence gives 10% more healing amp. I really like the idea of renewal but it probably costs too much.

Unyielding Sentinal - a lot of this is defensive but still a couple options

Tier 1 - Bane of Undeath, pretty powerful for a tier 1 feat. Too bad there arent that many epic undead.
Tier 3 - Healing hands getting lay on hands on a barbarian would be nice. I haven't tried this though so I don't know if you get only one use and does it even heal that much with a lowish charisma?

Those are the ones I have tried or am aspiring to try. What other twists are you thinking of working in?

Running with the Wind is 10% move speed according to the wiki.
Grim Fate from Shadow Dancer is a nice 15% fort bypass and 3% dodge bypass.
Don't think +6 crit damage is equivalent to +12 strength even with Adrenaline Overload (though it's still really good of course).

[Sjiggie]

Exhalted Angel - several tier 3s, but the high cost of tier 3 might not make these a serious consideration. I really wish these were tier 2s

Tier 3 - Smite the wicked for another nice dmg causing clickie that could turn into monster dmg on a 20. Renewal is a nice heal clicky and purity of essence gives 10% more healing amp. I really like the idea of renewal but it probably costs too much.

Renewal is works only on yourself if you have the destiny active so if you twist it you can only use it on others

[Uhtred_Stark]

Ahh good to know on renewal, that makes it pretty useless for a barbarian then. Movement speed starts at 10% but you can stack it up to 30% if u put 3 points in it and take that tier. I'll take a look at grim fate.

[emptysands]

Potentially you could have 2x Tier 3 and 1xTier1 twists or 1xTier 2 and 2xTier 2.

I figure "Action Boost: Haste" and "Improved Power Attack" plus "Momentum Swing".


+0.5[W] is likely to beat out +6 crit dmg on any weapon with W=2d6 or W=1d10 or in high fort situations. In calculations I've done in the past haste boost is generally a big boost to burst dps - 121% difference in swing speed.

 Haste = 15%
 Haste Boost IV = 25%
 Total = 40%
 86.63 * (1 + .9615 * .4) = 119.9479 swings/min

vs

 Haste = 15%
 86.63 * (1 + .9615 * .15) = 99.1242 swings/min

Momentum Swing with +5[W] and +3CTR and likely reset in 15-20sec is also going to be a bit contribution to dps. Especially if the +5[W] stacks with Adrenaline Overload for 400% and +5[W].

Momentum Swing (min level: 20 - Prereq: Cleave) (3 ranks - 1 AP): (Active Cooldown: 1 min) Tactical Melee Attack: Perform an attack with +5[W] damage and +[1/2/3] critical threat range. Cleave attacks have a [15/30/50]% chance to reset the cooldown of this ability (this cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds). You must have Power Attack active to perform this ability.

[emptysands]

One factor I haven't worked out is Power Attack vs Precision. The -25% fort debuff combined with Adrenaline Overload, may contribute more to burst dps on bosses for non-WF/HO or builds with high CM.

Most bosses have more than 25% fort. So even if you have a simple look: just CM=3 and seeker+10, then 30 damage 25% more often is +7.5 dmg per swing.

Maybe for TWF builds the Precision is better than Power Attack. This may mean that Momentum Swing and +3 CTR is also a very good twist.

I don't know enough about Cleave and the rest.

[Uhtred_Stark]

Good data Empty, but you cant use your dmg boost +25% dmg while in haste boost. Those will never be on the same timer. I wonder if with dmg boost on, lay waste or the +6 crit dmg isnt better? I don't know just throwing stuff at the board. Lay waste also adds to the crit multiplier.

[EllisDee37]

Tier 1 - Bane of Undeath, pretty powerful for a tier 1 feat. Too bad there arent that many epic undead.

Agreed, though there are more now than before. Drow necromancers with their hordes of zombies appear in the xpack. No idea how frequent they show up, but the first quest in the first chain is all undead.

Plus the desert is much easier to run epic now with the varying difficulty settings.

Most bosses have more than 25% fort. So even if you have a simple look: just CM=3 and seeker+10, then 30 damage 25% more often is +7.5 dmg per swing.

Per crit, not swing.

[emptysands]

Per crit, not swing.

Oh yeah! My mistake.

I was a bit rushed when I wrote that. I did mean to say per crit, and point out with Adrenaline and Unbridled Fury crits are more going to happen often.

Factoring PA vs Precision is likely going to depend on your CM and damage bonus. Say X vs X+14 for THF and x3 crit on 15-20, 50% fort.

   ( X + 14 ) * 3 * 25% * 50% + (X + 14) *  ( 70% + 25% * 50%)  
= ( X + 14 ) * 37.5% +  (X + 14 ) * 82.5%
= X * 1.1975  + 14 * 1.1975

vs

   X  * 3 * 25% * 75% + X *  ( 70% + 25% * 25%)  
= X ( 56.25% + 76.25%)
= X * 1.325

So 

X = 131.5

Say X vs X+14 for THF and x3 crit on 10-20, 50% fort.

   ( X + 14 ) * 3 * 50% * 50% + (X + 14) *  ( 45% + 50% * 50%)  
= ( X + 14 ) * ( 1.45)

vs

   X  * 3 * 50% * 75% + X *  ( 45% + 50% * 25%)  
= X ( 1.125 + 0.575)
= X * 1.7

So 

X = 81.2

This does not take into account the "to hit" difference.

[Khellendros13]

Momentum Swing and Lay Waste need PA to be on to use. Precision negates PA.

However, I'm not 100% that Momentum Swing and Lay Waste are always more DPS vs single target compared to just swinging due to slight latency in attacks.

[emptysands]

Momentum Swing and Lay Waste need PA to be on to use. Precision negates PA.

However, I'm not 100% that Momentum Swing and Lay Waste are always more DPS vs single target compared to just swinging due to slight latency in attacks.

How well does this work with TWF? How well does Cleave work with TWF?

The Adrenaline activation is annoying against trash. I usually try activate before getting group of trash and use it to single hit the spell casters.