Earth monks stuffed?

[GeoffWatson]

Earth Monks used to get 20% damage reduction (with Grandmaster). Now they get 15 PRR (about 8% damage reduction).
Other classes get PRR for free with their armour.

With the changes, monks will get hit more often, for more damage.

Are monks totally stuffed?

Geoff.

[Archangel666]

You think Earth Stance Monks are screwed...

Have you seen the PRR that you get if you use any other stance?

Hint: 0

[Snarglefrump]

Monks now get 6% stacking dodge, and most end-game monks now have an AC that will mitigate some damage.

For an Earth monk, that doesn't necessarily work out to a net win, but it's certainly not as much of a loss as it might appear.

[Daitengu]

What is this PRR?

[RadioactivePiranha]

PRR (Physical Resistance Rating) is a new stat with the update. It can be found on your character sheet by the elemental resistances. Increasing this number reduces the damage taken from physical attacks. Mouse over the number on your character sheet to see what percent.

Grandmaster earth stance now grants +20% AC as well to help mitigate damage. You can increase the PRR to 30 with standing with stone in Grandmaster of Flowers.

Monks are not totally stuffed. You can't match a stalwart defender for physical damage mitigation but monks are not made of tissue paper now either.

[slimkj]

most end-game monks now have an AC that will mitigate some damage.

I don't think this is correct. Mine certainly don't.

[whomhead]

I don't think this is correct. Mine certainly don't.

Basically every character in the game at every level will get some form of damage mitigation from their AC. Even raging barbarians. This was the entire point of the changes to AC with U14 - to make it so that AC is meaningful for all characters. So I find it exceedingly hard to believe that your monk is the only one who isn't getting any.

Now, depending on the type of character you're playing, you may very well be getting less than you were before the update. But you are still getting some damage mitigation from AC.

[Delssar]

Basically every character in the game at every level will get some form of damage mitigation from their AC. Even raging barbarians. This was the entire point of the changes to AC with U14 - to make it so that AC is meaningful for all characters. So I find it exceedingly hard to believe that your monk is the only one who isn't getting any.

Now, depending on the type of character you're playing, you may very well be getting less than you were before the update. But you are still getting some damage mitigation from AC.

>will get some form of damage mitigation

My fire stance monk got screwed, 2% dodge at level / 16% to miss (from AC) / 0 PRR

Any non-earth stance is f-'d

[rimble]

>will get some form of damage mitigation

My fire stance monk got screwed, 2% dodge at level / 16% to miss (from AC) / 0 PRR

Any non-earth stance is f-'d

I'm in Wind at level 16 after a quick TR and Stone of Experience, level ups in Wisdom (figured I'd give that a try this time). 20% Blur from Bracers of Wind, 25% Incorporeal from Shadow Fade, 56% Miss Chance from AC (which is 55 I think). 0 PRR of course, but so far doesn't seem too bad, of course I've put some effort into AC items too...Natural Armor +5 Cove Hat, Protection +5 Item, Frozen Tunic with 7 AC...of course it's too soon to declare anything, just sharing my experience so far.

[shadereaper33]

>will get some form of damage mitigation

My fire stance monk got screwed, 2% dodge at level / 16% to miss (from AC) / 0 PRR

Any non-earth stance is f-'d

Given those numbers, it sounds like your monk had an AC that completely useless prior to the update. That being the case, you went from 0% dodge (since it didn't exist), 0% to miss from AC, and 0% PRR (again didn't exist) to now having a 2% chance to dodge (which should be higher, unless you are level 1) and 16% avoidance from AC (which can easily be made higher with some gear change). So, to me, it sounds like your monk got a buff.

[slimkj]

Basically every character in the game at every level will get some form of damage mitigation from their AC. Even raging barbarians. This was the entire point of the changes to AC with U14 - to make it so that AC is meaningful for all characters. So I find it exceedingly hard to believe that your monk is the only one who isn't getting any.

Now, depending on the type of character you're playing, you may very well be getting less than you were before the update. But you are still getting some damage mitigation from AC.

I pretty much dumped AC completely on one of mine and yeah, his AC still sucks and the mitigation doesn't feel that much different from before. Got hit a lot before, get hit a lot now.

[Dalsheel]

Given those numbers, it sounds like your monk had an AC that completely useless prior to the update. That being the case, you went from 0% dodge (since it didn't exist), 0% to miss from AC, and 0% PRR (again didn't exist) to now having a 2% chance to dodge (which should be higher, unless you are level 1) and 16% avoidance from AC (which can easily be made higher with some gear change). So, to me, it sounds like your monk got a buff.

Say that again, when he runs epic elite content and trash mobs hit him for ~130 per hit... lol

Also dodge caps at 25%... well done turbine....

[Dagolar]

Say that again, when he runs epic elite content and trash mobs hit him for ~130 per hit... lol

Also dodge caps at 25%... well done turbine....

It's that cap that makes Mountain Stance definitively better than Ocean Stance, if you can get enough sources of dodge elsewhere [Since, between the base stances and Grandmaster, Ocean'll give you +6% dodge over other stances, but if you're capped already, then that hardly helps you: And with Mountain Stance giving you AC and PRR, and the Gransmaster bonuses to it giving even more PRR..]

So, Sun and Wind may still be better for certain dps builds..
But Ocean is totally cast out into the seas for the time being.

[rimble]

But Ocean is totally cast out into the seas for the time being.

Yeah, not to mention the ED bonus is Cold Shield or something...? Worst stance synergy...AGAIN (like with Jid'z, I'd take the +10 Jump from Air over that Poison attack from Water). Somebody hates Water stance.

[nebogloee]

Yeah, not to mention the ED bonus is Cold Shield or something...? Worst stance synergy...AGAIN (like with Jid'z, I'd take the +10 Jump from Air over that Poison attack from Water). Somebody hates Water stance.

Water stance has never been very desirable for FotM. But I have run one for years and love it. And I see the poison freeze up epic orange named mobs all the time. I would take that over 10 jump any day

I do agree that the devs must not run a water stance monk, cold shield, really? How about +1 to my monk ability DCs or a chance to freeze the enemy or something else that isn't on the tunic or cloak of ice etc? I would rather have the jidz poison bonus and that is just wrong. But all in all, the bonuses from the sun soul stuff is pretty lackluster, but the gear itself is solid.

[HGM-Chi]

Given those numbers, it sounds like your monk had an AC that completely useless prior to the update. That being the case, you went from 0% dodge (since it didn't exist), 0% to miss from AC, and 0% PRR (again didn't exist) to now having a 2% chance to dodge (which should be higher, unless you are level 1) and 16% avoidance from AC (which can easily be made higher with some gear change). So, to me, it sounds like your monk got a buff.

He had a 5% miss chance before, actually. A roll of 1 was always a miss. But yes, he got an increase for typical at level stuff, presumably.

I think the bottom line for earth stance tanks is that you aren't going to be as useful anymore. A stalwart will be taking a lot less damage and probably be more desirable. I've not tried tanking anything yet with my light monk nor my dark monk (currently at level 16 of his 3rd life). We'll see though!

[Nubicus]

Earth Monks used to get 20% damage reduction (with Grandmaster). Now they get 15 PRR (about 8% damage reduction).
Other classes get PRR for free with their armour.

With the changes, monks will get hit more often, for more damage.

Are monks totally stuffed?

Geoff.

I don't think earth monks were screwed at all. You're still getting your increased critical range, your increase to constitution, your free 70% hate generation. Your PRR went from 20% to 8%. Monks have more ways to deal with damage mitigation than any other class however.

There is the dodge bonus, which a lot of us are already geared out to increase for, access to an enhancement chain of Healing Amp no one else gets, inate resistances etc.

My armor class went from middle fifties topping out in the low 60's to now low seventies topping out in the low 80's. Considering that even the most well armored of tanks are still going to get hit about 20-30% of the time and the Epic - Hard being a gaint red easy button, I'd say Earth Monks are still doing fine.

When the fix Horoth's new Spell Like Ability "Banish players from DDO", we'll get a chance to see if Earth Hate Tanks are still viable, but I'm going to guess, based off the Epic-Hard Chrono I did last night were the Abashi pulled a Manic-Harry, with the new epic Destinys, tanking may not be needed in some of the old quests.

For those who haven't tried it yet, you should. A veteran player remarked that it was the first time since there was an eChrono he had heard someone ask "Can we do the optionals?"

The question for Earth Monks now isn't "Did we get screwed" it's "Which is going to be better for my damage Legendary Dreadnaught or Fury of the Wild?"

[redspecter23]

I'll agree with many of the above posters and say that Earth (while weaker compared to what it seemed before) is by far the strongest stance. Water got nailed hardest. The dodge cap and AC loss for being in water compared to earth (pre U14 water had the highest AC potential) makes it really only good for bumping tactics.

The small tactics bump, while nice is just one thing, while earth has higher AC, better dps and the only source of innate PRR for monks. Earth is the complete package. The only reason I'm ever not in earth stance now is when I don't want to be stealing aggro and when I'm soloing, where air is more useful for the haste boost. I may play around with fire once I get the new monk set to see if it contributes to a self sufficiency package for solo play. Currently, water is just a trap stance until they do something to make it more appealing.

[Saravis]

The only reason I'm ever not in earth stance now is when I don't want to be stealing aggro

Which is a major issue for the sneak attack based monks, they've screwed over an entire style of play with this, popular one at that. They need to throw a bone to the other stances, if they want to remedy this.

[redspecter23]

Which is a major issue for the sneak attack based monks, they've screwed over an entire style of play with this, popular one at that. They need to throw a bone to the other stances, if they want to remedy this.

I agree completely. I'd like adjustments to come in the form of minor buffs to air and fire and a significant buff to water, but I have a feeling it will come in the form of a massive nerf to earth first.