Is gear part of a character build?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Discuss.

[wayreth602]

Well a worthwhile topic. Yes and no. When the cove came up last time around my other half ran around the cove and had issues but I could run around and wham bam. The previous cove was her watching my health bar drop and fast while she was in smuggler's rest and was buffing people. The difference was gearing.

However in many quests without her, I die really fast. Gear might matter but the help and play style helps more.

[MeliCat]

End game, yes. If by 'gear' you actually mean 'gear to maximise stuff'

Getting to cap, bare minimum stats, fortifcation, whatever makes you effective and self sufficient, not so much. Does not have to be uber (well at least that's my motto... I had 3 slots free capping a wiz recently ... but I was soloing..)

A piece of gear fundamental to a build then yes...

Some builds not so gear dependant.

New changes to spell stuff... um yeah... anything with a blue bar now for the first time ever is definitely gear dependant whereas before a clickie would do (Not happy about that... pally, ranger, bard, melee divine...)

[wayreth602]

I will admit when she found a souleater on the AH on the cheap she bought it fast and is enjoying it on one of her alts.

However we both made F2P accounts (for the Build your Guild not our mains) and agreed no twinking and with no gear but what we get there are no problems. Then again we play and the same room and are used to each other's playstyle.

[Phidius]

Definitely part of the build. It's something that a lot of people gloss over, though - either posting every epic gear they've ever heard of, or ignoring it completely as they list every benefit without thinking how the items would fit together.

The best builds (IMHO) take gear into consideration.

[Zirun]

Depends.

Most characters aren't too reliant on gear. That is, they could have non-perfect gear and work almost as well as if they had perfect gear. It's not really worth mentioning any gear you use in a standard 20 Elf PM, because you can use whatever you find and generally be alright.

Then there are some that are entirely reliant on gear, like a Charisma-based meleeing Bard using Dynastic Falcatas. In that case, the build's success is entirely dependent on access to CHA-based weapons, and in that case I'd say the gear is, at least to an extent, a large part of the build.

[Kmnh]

Yes.

Consider the difference between a melee with 10 minutes worth of displacement clickies for damage mitigation and one that has only his movement speed and a loincloth.

[AtomicMew]

Definitely. Gear is more important than feats and base stats. A simple hand wavey comparison: a toon with ideal feats and stat distribution, but only starter gear and korthos gear versus a toon with base strength and no combat feats but with eSOS, eClaw, ravager set, eMarilith etc. Who wins?

[MeliCat]

Definitely. Gear is more important than feats and base stats. A simple hand wavey comparison: a toon with ideal feats and stat distribution, but only starter gear and korthos gear versus a toon with base strength and no combat feats but with eSOS, eClaw, ravager set, eMarilith etc. Who wins?

Define 'win'

Holy silver falchion and I go kill this mob here

My eSoS friend kills him faster but at the end of the day both accomplished what was required ie mob is dead.

I guess I am not extremist in gearing. Yes an eSOS would be awesome. But in the meantime I will be able to at least be effective with my crafted stuff. Please don't call me a loser if I don't have an eSOS yet in other words...

[PopeJual]

Sometimes.

If healing amp is a big part of your build (solar phoenix, etc), then healing amp gear would be appropriate to list as part of the build.

If you're just including dual-weilded eSoS so that you can make it look like you have real DPS on a garbage build, then it's not appropriate.

[Anthios888]

I vote that gear is as important or more important than a character build. It's impossible to compare build A to build B without knowing what they can realistically wear and what their achievable high water marks are going to be. Some builds excel because they have better gear options than another build, and then when different loot or mechanics come out, the other build might be better. Many times I have written up character builds and determined that they are unpublishable because the gear does not fit and it cannot do what my goal was. Finding a maxed out gear set can often be an art form.

Likewise, I'm sure that many people could put together most of the archetype or classic builds. Many of my most popular forum builds are pure classes with similar feats or stats as other players; there are only so many combinations. Once players become familiar with DDO's abilities, certain feats, ability scores, and skill points become default. But does everyone work out how to reach nofail heal scrolls on a pure fighter? Or determine whether DEX or STR is going to be higher on their WIS monk? Or know that 2-Handed warchanter could have worn that week's max DPS (abishai, claw, bold trinket/epic bloodstone, epic marilith/red dragon armor, ravager, claw, tharne's, and shintao) one year ago while a 2-weapon would not have 39 UMD because it would need a shroud SP item?

We all know by now that this game can be played through at a basic level with almost any character. But putting in the extra thought and planning creates a more useful build.

Does it sometimes take time to get there? Hell yeah! We all have our bard who didn't get that Shintao Ring after 60 ToDs or that sorc whose hopes for Litany of the Dead have deadened. And things change and our needs change. DDO has great second tier loot scattered all over the map to help transitions. Few builds actually "need" x or y item to function, but knowing that it can work for you matters. It worth knowing, players like Melicat, that some day you might pull the epic Sword of Shadows and equip it, and that if you had been a different build it would not have worked so well for you?

[Archangel666]

For me, I'd say it is. Simple example to help illustrate why.

My little Ranger AA currently has 38 DEX.

I was aiming for 32 and factored in a +6 DEX item while building her, which slot was up for debate at the time, but I knew that I would definately have one by level 20 since they're so common.

I have since picked up a +3 Tome and Gilvanor's Ring and slotted +2 DEX on it, giving me 6 more DEX than I had originally planned for.

Now, bearing in mind that she's only a 28 point build, when I TR her she'll have between 10 and 12 more build points to play with.

Knowing that I have a +9 DEX ring and a +3 DEX Tome means that I plan around them and factor those stats into the build.

[Deathdefy]

I think your seminal pieces of gear are as much a part of your build as your feats, stats, classes and skills.

E.g. A 9 Artificer + 11 whatever build without both a ML 17 Toven's and a Lit II wouldn't be a build I'd advocate.

Similarly, my current life of a generic Pale Master that doesn't have a Shroud of the Abbot isn't really a good Pale Master levelling build and some minds could legitimately argue it's so sub par a WF archmage might be a better choice. Hi Wax !

A lot of builds don't have those make or break pieces of gear though so it's dependent on what you're making.

[MeliCat]

I vote that gear is as important or more important than a character build. It's impossible to compare build A to build B without knowing what they can realistically wear and what their achievable high water marks are going to be. Some builds excel because they have better gear options than another build, and then when different loot or mechanics come out, the other build might be better. Many times I have written up character builds and determined that they are unpublishable because the gear does not fit and it cannot do what my goal was. Finding a maxed out gear set can often be an art form.

Likewise, I'm sure that many people could put together most of the archetype or classic builds. Many of my most popular forum builds are pure classes with similar feats or stats as other players; there are only so many combinations. Once players become familiar with DDO's abilities, certain feats, ability scores, and skill points become default. But does everyone work out how to reach nofail heal scrolls on a pure fighter? Or determine whether DEX or STR is going to be higher on their WIS monk? Or know that 2-Handed warchanter could have worn that week's max DPS (abishai, claw, bold trinket/epic bloodstone, epic marilith/red dragon armor, ravager, claw, tharne's, and shintao) one year ago while a 2-weapon would not have 39 UMD because it would need a shroud SP item?

We all know by now that this game can be played through at a basic level with almost any character. But putting in the extra thought and planning creates a more useful build.

Does it sometimes take time to get there? Hell yeah! We all have our bard who didn't get that Shintao Ring after 60 ToDs or that sorc whose hopes for Litany of the Dead have deadened. And things change and our needs change. DDO has great second tier loot scattered all over the map to help transitions. Few builds actually "need" x or y item to function, but knowing that it can work for you matters. It worth knowing, players like Melicat, that some day you might pull the epic Sword of Shadows and equip it, and that if you had been a different build it would not have worked so well for you?

mumblemumblemumblejustneedscrollandhavetodecidewho toputitonmumblemumblemumble

Character building is definitely not my strong point but I am surrounded by people who have a real passion for it and indeed this is an excellent game for this.

Back a while or so ago I was in the process of writing up a suggestion of having suggested gear sets for new players when I was brought up short by one of these people commenting 'D&D has always been about loot and gear'. Ie not defining a set of must have stuff but having a vast array of choices.

But the two really do go hand in hand. Like the dex example above. Like a pally who starts with too much wis? (I have my first ever game built character - starting wis 12 on a 28er)

Not sure what I'm trying to say here... More I guess sometimes I feel pushed in threads and builds where they say you MUST. When half the time it's not 'must' but a 'best'.

Now in my dps example above if I don't have a certain min dps with my choice of non eSoS for eVelah that is bad. And that is both build, having a clue how to play (barb rages for example), and appropriate Weap to apply big smacks. It's a mixture of all but a certain min of gear.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I think your seminal pieces of gear are as much a part of your build as your feats, stats, classes and skills.

E.g. A 9 Artificer + 11 whatever build without both a ML 17 Toven's and a Lit II wouldn't be a build I'd advocate.

Similarly, my current life of a generic Pale Master that doesn't have a Shroud of the Abbot isn't really a good Pale Master levelling build and some minds could legitimately argue it's so sub par a WF archmage might be a better choice. Hi Wax !

A lot of builds don't have those make or break pieces of gear though so it's dependent on what you're making.

I think this sums it up nicely. Most gear (like most feat/skill/spells/everything else you choose about your character) adds only small additions to abilities that are already in place and these choices don't make up a build by themselves.

What makes a build is the defining choices that add a style of play to a character.
Some examples of what I'm thinking:

• Healing amp gear for a low AC tank (like solar phoenix) ---> This lets you fight and heal indefinitely (before nerf)
• Shroud of the Abbot/Robe/Docent of Night ---> This gives you indefinite self healing
• Docent of Defiance ---> This lets you survive massive aggro
• eSoS ---> This lets a non-melee build have competent melee DPS (due to a combination of AB and DPS)
• Torc ---> This can give positive SP regen when combined with gear above

I'm sure other items qualify as well but these are the ones that come to mind that can really define builds. If someone posted a build with some of these items and someone else posted a build without then they would be completely different builds even if every other aspect of them was identical.

This thread was prompted by someone getting very offended when I was curious about their goal of acquiring a Sovereign Rune of Dodge (in the waiting to form group chit chat phase of SoS) and then stated that gear has nothing to do with build as I had tried to explain that I was curious about their gear choices as I enjoy character builds. One of those rare types that is a TR but not part of a guild, later left the group when another person joined that they didn't get along with who seemed to be a perfectly amiable party member for the quest.

[Postumus]

This thread was prompted by someone getting very offended when I was curious about their goal of acquiring a Sovereign Rune of Dodge (in the waiting to form group chit chat phase of SoS) and then stated that gear has nothing to do with build as I had tried to explain that I was curious about their gear choices as I enjoy character builds.

I have yet to see any player get 'very offended' just because another player is simply curious about his build goal and what he plans to use a particular piece of gear for.


I have seen several players get offended and irritated when other players judge their builds and gear choices in a condescending way or come across as elitist know-it-alls.

[samdsherman]

yes.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have yet to see any player get 'very offended' just because another player is simply curious about his build goal and what he plans to use a particular piece of gear for.


I have seen several players get offended and irritated when other players judge their builds and gear choices in a condescending way or come across as elitist know-it-alls.

I see what you did there.

[Dagolar]

Discuss.

Yes.
Some builds are built specifically around a single item or set of items- Chimera's Fang and SoS typically being the strongest examples.
By definition, that means we have item-based-class-builds, which means, at least in a general sense, that items are a part of build design.

As far as how it relates to each specific character? Nah, probably not. But then again, that's true for any specific element of character design- they're not universal between all builds.

[Nyxianne]

Yep! I always plan my characters around +6 stat items in the stats I deem important for the class, heavy fort, a +1 or +2 tome for the stats I want, and usually a gs hp or sp item. Stuff I know I can get fairly easily that just seem to make gameplay go so much better.