Why a indifference towards player with disability

[blackdrowarcanenuts]

Joined a group for harbor elites i was standing in near the quest area and went in quick started fighting quest was about to finish killed mobs healed party members and quest completed when came out of the dungeon i was just about to type that i am deaf handicapped guy i cannot use headset i was just about to type i got kicked out of the group i asked why he kicked me he said he asked something and i did not answered i told him i was about to type that am a deaf handicapped guy cannot use headset he said go find yourself a HANDICAPPED GROUP GL is this how a disabled person being treated been playing for 6 years who uses voice chat in crappy lowbie quests and never had difficulty in playing first time someone said

"find yourself a handicapped group gl"

Am asking why there is indifference towards players with disability

[Combat_Wombat]

woowza if i was on your server I'd be posting a "pm me name please". Takes a special kind of person to act like that.

Also want to say this is not reflective of anyone I have ever met in-game so don't let it sour you on people.

[MsEricka]

Allow me to be blunt. You should say you have a hearing disability right after you join the group.

That lets others know immediately that they need to type to you.

Low levels may not be an issue with instructions, but high level quests and raids sometimes require instructions or directions and if you don't say that you can hear the party leader, they may assume you're just not paying attention and kick you.

However in regards to the user in the OP, they were a jerk. It's no loss.

Your best bet to finding a group that will learn to work your disability is to find a good guild that runs a little of everything. This way you don't need to constantly explain any issue and you have players that know how to work with you and you with them.

tl;dr
Pugs suck, find a guild.

[Zipwire]

Allow me to be blunt. You should say you have a hearing disability right after you join the group.

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

If a leader requires party members to hear voice then it should be posted in the lfm. Then be sure all members respond to a voice check before proceeding.

I have pugged quests from levels 1-20, raids as well. None require to hear voice, sure, for some it may make things easier but not necessary. There are many people that play this game without hearing voice, whatever their reasons are. If asked or see the green flash that they are using voice chat during a quest, just type "can't hear voice".

Just chalk it up as one of the many ignorant people you will run into playing this game, just as happens in real life. Luckily from my experience the decent people far outnumber ones like this person.

[Rubix]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

Agreed, however... I have actually played with the OP a couple of time in a PUG, and when I requested voice, he informed me politely of his disability. NP! Game goes on,just work around it. There are plenty of ppl who prefer not using voice for one or another reason. Disability should not preclude someone from the game!

Just chalk it up as one of the many ignorant people you will run into playing this game...

Sure, but surely this sort of behavior warrants a ticket? I would be offended it it happened to me.

...just as happens in real life. Luckily from my experience the decent people far outnumber ones like this person.

+1 Hope it stays that way, and as long as we can express our opinions while being respectful of others, we can all enjoy.

@OP, sorry for that experience, dude. That was just wrong!

[Uska]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

If a leader requires party members to hear voice then it should be posted in the lfm. Then be sure all members respond to a voice check before proceeding.

I have pugged quests from levels 1-20, raids as well. None require to hear voice, sure, for some it may make things easier but not necessary. There are many people that play this game without hearing voice, whatever their reasons are. If asked or see the green flash that they are using voice chat during a quest, just type "can't hear voice".

Just chalk it up as one of the many ignorant people you will run into playing this game, just as happens in real life. Luckily from my experience the decent people far outnumber ones like this person.

No you should let people know if you cant hear a lot of people dont type anything unless they have to and the natural assumption is that if a person doenst respond after a couple times is that they might be ignoring you a patient person would type to see if they respond to that but our zerger pop will just assumed they are being ignored.

If you have a special issue you should let the group know up front.

[Buggss]

Oooooo tough one.

One person's considerations end where someone else's begin as the old phrase goes. Same as one person's rights end where another person's begin.

I've been in this line of work for a long time and we're looking exactly at the problem of disability discrimination and equality. Biggest minefield after human rights.

I see the annoyance of the OP in being annoyed at being asked to separate themselves from the community:

..."find yourself a handicapped group gl"....

This basically is saying the group leader would rather not have to deal with the added effort (justified or not) in having to type instruction they may have done a million times before but said in a totally unacceptable way. The message is understandable, the words are not.

As the vast majority of players have no sensory disability (an assumption made by my experience since pre-release and I believe a fair one) then most players will assume no significant disability in a group unless someone states one or something makes it obvious during the group's gaming. This is the curse of "normal" and one we won't solve on a gaming forum.

Like I say I've dealt with many many cases of one person's rights against another person's rights where both sides have understandable (although not always moral) reasons for their actions/beliefs. In this case the only course of action I find works is one of openness and honesty right at the outset.

So in the OP's case I think the right/most harmonious course of action (after all it's a game to be enjoyed, right?) would have been:

For the OP to join the group, mentioned immediately that they had a hearing impairment meaning that anything said to them would require a fast tell or message in party chat and if that was too much for the group leader to cope with, (who knows, maybe they had a writing or some other impairment) then they could have asked them to leave straight away (every group leader's prerogative).

Given that the situation was declared and transparent the group knew what it was doing and everything would've been simpler and more enjoyable whether the group stayed together or not. At least everyone would've known where they stood.

Again everything is my opinions formed from my personal, work and gaming experiences as well as dealing with countless similar situations, including no small number of instances within DDO.

Hope anything I've said helps and doesn't offend, I did my best.

[Phidius]

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could check a box to use Voice-To-Text software to output the voice channel to the Party tab? In addition, output what you type in the Party tab to the voice channel too.

I'd pay TP for that.

[Buggss]

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could check a box to use Voice-To-Text software to output the voice channel to the Party tab? In addition, output what you type in the Party tab to the voice channel too.

I'd pay TP for that.

It's a nice idea but that kind of software is hard enough with one set of dialects or accents within one country, with all the languages and accents etc etc in DDO it'd be pretty much impossible without slowing everything down to a crawl along with it.

[Gkar]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

You are completely wrong about that. While sex and race don't matter, language and hearing DEFINATELY matter. They impact your ability to communicate. That's something its fair for people to know because it limits your ability to join the party.

In the case of the disability, it actually makes an even bigger difference. If you just refuse to listen, I'll boot you. If you tell me you're deaf, I'll let you stay but warn you that I'll probably automatically comment in voice chat and may forget you can't hear so it may be a bit rough. If you are good with that, so am I. (Actually I'd do the same thing if you said "I'm on my laptop travelling and have no speakers")

Same with language really. If English is not your first language and you tell me I'll be much more understanding if it appears you aren't "getting" something or are having trouble with instructions and I'll repeat and rephrase. Otherwise, I'll just assume jerk and boot you. I've been the "english" guy in a non english group, I hold them back because I can't fully communicate with them and they, and fairly so, sometimes forget to toss out some english in the middle of an <insert language here> conversation.

If a leader requires party members to hear voice then it should be posted in the lfm. Then be sure all members respond to a voice check before proceeding.

No need to put that in the posting, its the default. Do you know how few people don't have ears turned on? Almost none. And they did a voice check, and booted the person who ignored them. (although I would have typed something as well first)

I have pugged quests from levels 1-20, raids as well. None require to hear voice, sure, for some it may make things easier but not necessary.

REQUIRE, no. But it makes it MUCH easier. I've played with a number of deaf people. Some of them were very good. But frankly it was always a slower and more difficult run. No one should be required to run with a disadvantage in their party if they don't want to. This is a GAME and it is for people to have FUN. I'll accomodate as much as I can, but not everyone has the patience for that, nor should they be required to.

edit: I'm responding in general - for harbor elites, you can run it with 1 player and 5 blind and deaf monkeys who don't even have a keyboard so really no excuse to kick there unless you are non responsive for quite a while or are in obvious pike mode.

[Kareena]

I agree with everything Gkar wrote. I require ears in my groups, but I make an exception for this guy from Fort Fotis because he has told me he is deaf. I do my best to type occasional instruction/responses when he is in group- though I forget at times. It does slightly slow me down- especially shadow crypt (I had my friend type instead while I lead)- but for the occasional quest it's okay. It's not like he can just go to walmart and buy some hearing you know? If he hadn't told me he was deaf, I would have booted him. LFM clearly states have ears most of the time- also zerg, byoheal etc. lol So anyway- yea I agree he should tell people he is deaf- not that he just doesn't have speakers. Most people are more willing to work with that if they know its not something you can "fix" imo.

You are completely wrong about that. While sex and race don't matter, language and hearing DEFINATELY matter. They impact your ability to communicate. That's something its fair for people to know because it limits your ability to join the party.

In the case of the disability, it actually makes an even bigger difference. If you just refuse to listen, I'll boot you. If you tell me you're deaf, I'll let you stay but warn you that I'll probably automatically comment in voice chat and may forget you can't hear so it may be a bit rough. If you are good with that, so am I. (Actually I'd do the same thing if you said "I'm on my laptop travelling and have no speakers")

Same with language really. If English is not your first language and you tell me I'll be much more understanding if it appears you aren't "getting" something or are having trouble with instructions and I'll repeat and rephrase. Otherwise, I'll just assume jerk and boot you. I've been the "english" guy in a non english group, I hold them back because I can't fully communicate with them and they, and fairly so, sometimes forget to toss out some english in the middle of an <insert language here> conversation.



No need to put that in the posting, its the default. Do you know how few people don't have ears turned on? Almost none. And they did a voice check, and booted the person who ignored them. (although I would have typed something as well first)



REQUIRE, no. But it makes it MUCH easier. I've played with a number of deaf people. Some of them were very good. But frankly it was always a slower and more difficult run. No one should be required to run with a disadvantage in their party if they don't want to. This is a GAME and it is for people to have FUN. I'll accomodate as much as I can, but not everyone has the patience for that, nor should they be required to.

edit: I'm responding in general - for harbor elites, you can run it with 1 player and 5 blind and deaf monkeys who don't even have a keyboard so really no excuse to kick there unless you are non responsive for quite a while or are in obvious pike mode.

[Falco_Easts]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

For arguments sake, if someone had a bug where they could not read party chat should they tell the group up front as soon as they join? Same deal.

[arkonas]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

If a leader requires party members to hear voice then it should be posted in the lfm. Then be sure all members respond to a voice check before proceeding.

I have pugged quests from levels 1-20, raids as well. None require to hear voice, sure, for some it may make things easier but not necessary. There are many people that play this game without hearing voice, whatever their reasons are. If asked or see the green flash that they are using voice chat during a quest, just type "can't hear voice".

Just chalk it up as one of the many ignorant people you will run into playing this game, just as happens in real life. Luckily from my experience the decent people far outnumber ones like this person.

im sorry that is a fail right there. no he/she should say that. reason being. if their asked something over voice and they don't respond. their in the wrong. most people assume to have at least ears. you don't have to write it in each lfm you need to have that. Reason being is this is their only way to communicate. Why wouldn't they say anything?

People are more willing to help out others if you say hey im deaf please type. ok so their response were doing such an such. don't kill this guy pull that switch. can you self heal etc. NOTHING is wrong for being honest and truthful. wanna be a dbag don't tell them assume they know everything about you and raise hell when you get kicked for you not explaining why you couldn't interact with a group.

Dont tell me that is the right way to go. i play with handicapped players and i will treat them like any other player even talk smack with them. Why because their just like us. Their not anything different. if they can't hear they sadly do need to let people know so they can get into groups and not worry will i get booted each time. there are so many players who don't use voice and type. they will be ok.

if you consider yourself a white knight player then your just as bad as the dbags that kick them for not saying anything because you think their special. you feel sorry for them you sympathy for them. THEY DON'T WANT THAT. be normal for .... sake.

[Dagolar]

This statement is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to tell anyone you have a hearing disability. Same thing goes for sex, race, language or any other personal information.

If a leader requires party members to hear voice then it should be posted in the lfm. Then be sure all members respond to a voice check before proceeding.

I have pugged quests from levels 1-20, raids as well. None require to hear voice, sure, for some it may make things easier but not necessary. There are many people that play this game without hearing voice, whatever their reasons are. If asked or see the green flash that they are using voice chat during a quest, just type "can't hear voice".

Just chalk it up as one of the many ignorant people you will run into playing this game, just as happens in real life. Luckily from my experience the decent people far outnumber ones like this person.

Thank you.

Now, since I haven't seen it mentioned yet:
The impression given is that the party leader didn't type in chat with his concerns at any point. This says additionally negative things about his mindset.
Regardless of anything and everything else, this means the party leader failed both in his role as party leader, and in offering proper communication.

However, yes, it's best to remove the voice chat icon when you don't have sound access [be it due to lack of hearing, or lack of speakers]. I did this back when, and had very little problems, and those mostly from newer players, or from players that..
Well. Some people find enjoyment in behaviors that are incredibly hard to fathom.

[morticianjohn]

Allow me to be blunt. You should say you have a hearing disability right after you join the group.

That lets others know immediately that they need to type to you.

Low levels may not be an issue with instructions, but high level quests and raids sometimes require instructions or directions and if you don't say that you can hear the party leader, they may assume you're just not paying attention and kick you.

However in regards to the user in the OP, they were a jerk. It's no loss.

Your best bet to finding a group that will learn to work your disability is to find a good guild that runs a little of everything. This way you don't need to constantly explain any issue and you have players that know how to work with you and you with them.

tl;dr
Pugs suck, find a guild.

I agree with this poster

I also have no issues with people who can't hear. Often if someone is listening to music or has sound off due to family members sleeping or whatever they will announce it as soon as they join a quest. "hey, I'm going to be playing with my sound off so please type anything relevant."

Some group leaders will specify "must be able to hear" in the lfm. I do think that people should take into consideration those who are hearing impaired but unfortunately not all party leaders are kind considerate people.

[LOOON375]

Nobody that plays this game can see through to the people on the other side. There is no way to know if a person is lying or telling the truth.

You can't tell if they are lying and just trying to be a PITA.

You can't tell if they are being genuinely honest about an issue.

The reason I say this, is I have seen a ton of different types of griefers using the most amazing reasons/excuses to grief other players.

All I can suggest is that you be upfront about about your hearing disability when you join a group.

People that don't have speakers get booted all of the time for that reason alone. (not being able to hear instructions)

I have seen LFMs with "need voice" etc and people without that ability (speakers) still click on the LFM and rightly get kicked when it turns out that they can't hear the instructions or are just flat out ignoring the leader.

Life is too short to get bent out of shape regarding some insignificant idiots that happen to find their way into your group.

I am also on Argo and if you ever see one of my LFM's, feel free to join but just make sure to tell me that you can't hear. That way I will know ahead of time that I need to type instructions. My toons are listed in my sig line along with my guild name.

Good luck and I hope to see you around.

Edited to add: Im a disabled veteran.

[davidolson22]

I feel like the Op didn't include some important details as to why he got kicked. People don't jsut kick silent players who are an asset to the team in every other way. They boot people who don't listen (which is what it sounds like they thought you were doing, how were they to know you really couldn't listen?), don't help out enough, are soloing the quest, die a lot, etc.

What exactly did you do that was making them so mad? Were they trying to get ransack but you zerged to the boss and finished the quest in record time? They could have been yelling at you not to finish the quest and you inadvertently ignored them. Did you finish the quest before everyone got in? Were you not healing your fellow party members? Were you turning into a soul stone over and over?

What exactly happened?

[Artrish]

I am posting to let you know, original poster, that i feel the way the group leader handled that scenario was in a very unkind nature. My belief, is that as easily as you could choose to inform the party you cannot hear the voice chat, others in the group can easily choose to ask via text if you can hear them speaking before booting you in such a scenario.

Disabilities can be quite hard to get a feel of what is involved with them. To those that experience very few barriers to achieve their goals, they may not be aware of how exhausting things can become once they are your only choice or path to proceed forward.
I mention this part about disabilities as a lot of advice reads as a need to inform others about the barriers that are there, when i feel the complete opposite. This game is a place to enjoy a bit of a time out and enjoy a fantasy adventure dungeon crawling. If every moment i had to write a disclaimer to the party, it really would not feel fun and places a bit too much focus on the disability more then the abilities you posess with the game knowledge you have.

[CodyGenX]

My wife is a teacher for the Deaf. I don't think any of you know the frustration involved with hearing impairment or complete loss of. Goodluck with your future grouping man.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

My wife is a teacher for the Deaf. I don't think any of you know the frustration involved with hearing impairment or complete loss of. Goodluck with your future grouping man.

I second this. Me, I'm almost deaf on one ear.

And no, I don't like voice chat that much. I prefer to type - and I'm quite fast at it !

My inner Cynic says : "Using voice chat is often to me like ... "oooh, I'm too lazy to type ..." "