Allow Crossbows and Bucklers

[easyaction]

As the title suggests i think we should be able to use crossbows and bucklers at the same time. Hell, artificers gun stuff down with one hand all the time. make it cost a feat, make it cost two feats. make it rogue mechanic specific for all i care, just make it!

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Hm, no matter how nice it would be, it would have to be a very tiny crossbow for one-hand use. From real life I could imagine only two-handed crossbows ...

[easyaction]

eh you could just lay it across the top edge of the shield, and in a perfect world you could shoot while shield blocking! how about if we make it 3 feats?

[Talias006]

Hm, no matter how nice it would be, it would have to be a very tiny crossbow for one-hand use. From real life I could imagine only two-handed crossbows ...

You know, real life doesn't always translate well into DDO.
And one handed crossbows do exist, not just in the 'Realms for Drow to put people to sleep with using poison darts.

[toaf]

ahh no.... rangers first

[Jaid314]

a buckler is specifically made to be used with a bow or crossbow, isn't it?

[Bradik_Losdar]

A very topical discussion considering the upcoming Expansion into the Drow Underdark region.

In AD&D, Drow were able to gain the benefits of their bucklers while using hand crossbows.

Of course that would mean that hand crossbows would have to be added to the game - which would be very cool! (and oh so appropriate for the Expansion)

[decease]

i think they should just allow other class to use rune arm.. i mean wtih a feat or enhancement etc

[Ungood]

I think this would be a very good idea IF if was applied to light crossbows and light repeating crossbows, right now, there is little to no motive to use those two weapons when the classes that get repeating and crossbow, have Heavy as an option.

If they made it so you could use a Buckler or even small shield, while using a Light (repeating) crossbow, the game would not end or break and would potentially give a reason to even use light crossbows at all.

I like this idea.

/Signed.

[Sidewaysgts86]

i think they should just allow other class to use rune arm.. i mean wtih a feat or enhancement etc

Why do you think this?

I think this would be a very good idea IF if was applied to light crossbows and light repeating crossbows, right now, there is little to no motive to use those two weapons when the classes that get repeating and crossbow, have Heavy as an option.

If they made it so you could use a Buckler or even small shield, while using a Light (repeating) crossbow, the game would not end or break and would potentially give a reason to even use light crossbows at all.

I like this idea.

/Signed.

I was under the impression you were actually allowed to use "bucklers" in pnp while using 2 handed weapons (Swords, staffs, crossbows, etc- dont think normal bows worked however.. but i might be wrong on that bit.)- The catch was however if you made an attack you lost the defense bonus of the buckler until the next around.

/signed- But with strict requirements.

1- The use of a buckler should interfere with the use of a rune arm. One or the other, not both.

2- Should a character wielding a two-handed weapon and buckler make any type of offensive attack (melee, ranged, or spell), they should lose the defensive-benefits of the shield for 6 seconds (the length of a pnp round) to simulate the "pros and cons" as depicted in pnp. This includes not JUST the ac of the shield, but the damage mitigation benefit for character with shield mastery and improved shield mastery.

3- The use of a buckler with a 2 handed weapon should have reasonable (ie 5% is hardly a concern and too little to be noticed, but 50% is too drastic) failure rate for arcane-spells that have somatic requirements (You are after-all attempting to make very detailed hand gestures while wielding a cumbersome item WITH a hunk of metal strapped to your arm). Theres a slew of staffs with an increased number of enhancements on them to "compensate" casters in the trade off against using staffs vs dual-wielding magical enhancing items. Allowing them to equip ANOTHER piece of gear with even *more* potential enhancements on it needs a trade-off.

I feel that without these "trade offs" shields would only further benefit casters over melees. Im fine with shields benefiting casters, but as theyre not making the same "trade-offs" as melees do, I feel the penalties for doing so should also be different. Allowing a relatively non feat-starved class like the wizard to take shield mastery with the intent on strapping a buckler to their arm to receive an ac boost, damage mitigation, AND another slo for spell-augmenting enhancements in combination with a relatively powerful staff WITHOUT some noticable penalties is not good game mechanics, imo.

Get something along these lines- and sure. /signed.

[Havok.cry]

Meh, they should just give us animated shields.

[Aesop]

Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.
You can’t bash someone with a buckler.

From the Complete Warrior

Improved Buckler Defense
Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency,
Benefit: When you attack with a weapon in your off hand, you may still apply your buckler's shield bonus to your Armor Class.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Buckler Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Normal: Without this feat, a character wielding a buckler who attacks with an off-hand weapon loses the buckler's shield bonus to AC until his or her next turn.

I wouldn't mind seeing buckler and rune arm both being able to take up a spot in the off hand section regardless of a two handed weapon (or ranged two handed weapon)being used.


Aesop

[Dagolar]

As the title suggests i think we should be able to use crossbows and bucklers at the same time. Hell, artificers gun stuff down with one hand all the time. make it cost a feat, make it cost two feats. make it rogue mechanic specific for all i care, just make it!

In PnP (as well as previous D&D computer games) Bucklers were, as I recall, considered not to interfere with the use of the off-hand (hence their 0% arcane spell chance failure), and there are several real world bucklers designed to still allow gripping with the off-hand. Given that Rune-arms, which take a similar role on the off-arm, don't interfere, I don't see why Bucklers couldn't.

Edit: Ah. It seems as if Aesop covered it

1- The use of a buckler should interfere with the use of a rune arm. One or the other, not both.

Lets look at the possibilities:

Two-weapon fighting: Way too cumbersome to have a buckler for. So no need to have a slot for it.

Sword and board: Clearly you wouldn't use two shields at once. So not a problem there.

Crossbows and two-handed weapons: Just open the off-slot for use of bucklers (though the balance issues with adding it to two-handed weapons may be a bit daunting). Since runearms already take the off-slot, there's not a problem of exclusions.