Ranger Hate

[underlordone]

Ok so I only read the first page and this might have been touched at some point and missed it.

I love my AA and my temp build rangers. On my AA build I know that running around and hitting them is all good but i like my mobs to stay still so I don't get that dam curve miss shot. What I have found that makes most groups not mined me rangeing is I have diplo so that meele can take them and I can still have my fun to. So far I have a 35 dip and I can lose just about any mob that is on me.

[EllisDee37]

I use the bracers from Relic, and have sirens charm from the fens as my necklace for the +4 to con

Switch the bracers out for the necklace and cast bear's for your +4 con. Then get some ogre power bracers and a greater false life belt. Dex on gloves, teraza's sight and you're good to go.

I personally went with the entire sora kell set (wisdom hat, strength gloves and charisma ring), the nightforge gorget, prrof against poison belt of greater false life, the mire set (boots & ring) for the 30% striding, and until I can find a set of Inferno Bracers (+6 dex) I just use the +3 dex bracers from Tangleroot. (The goggles and cloak are my two crafted items. I always try to have two for the guild augments, one for hp and one for sp. Blindness Ward of Attack +2 and Feather Falling of Spot +10.)

[countfitz]

After 4 pages of everyone saying the same thing, I just have to add the same thing.

Kiting ****es everyone who is not kiting off. Kiting is for 2 situations. Soloing or Last Man Standing. If you are the last man standing, kite away. If you are soloing, kite away. If 5 people charge after a mob, and you drag them away, so we have to run further, without doing anything, we won't ever group with you again.

Rangers need serious love in DDO. I say give them a pet. Just take the exact code from the Arti's defender, give it a wolf skin, and call it a day. Nothing else has to be done, Rangers can have a full pet, and KEEP both ranged and TWF, and still be balanced. Some say they'd have to pick between range and TWF, but that's not true, since ranged is lame anyway. Some say they should only get it at level 4 and it should stay levels below, but that is unnecessary for balance IMO as well. Just wanted to detour the thread.

[Gremmlynn]

I use the bracers from Relic, and have sirens charm from the fens as my necklace for the +4 to con

Trade in the bracers and slot Bears Endurance for +4 con (not like there is much better on the spell list anyway). Heavy fort is really the only "must have" gear enchantment in the game as mobs are balanced around players never being critically hit and still presenting a challenge.

[Razcar]

I don't care about ranged toons that kite anymore because I have just decided to ignore them. If I see a kiter starting to backpedal with some mob/s after him I just continue on to the next encounter without waiting a second.

If you kite it, you kill it. If it kills you, fine, more mobs for me. Never chase after these Benny Hills of DDO

[Cendaer]

>First of all, this should be in it's appropriate class forum.<

Second, yes, I have an Arcane Archer, which I play both solo and in parties.

Another point that people bring up is rangers tend to kite, now I dont see a problem with this, I kite all the time and end up with more kills then some of the fighters or barbs iv been with. Think is, If im kiting, dont heal me, dont chase after the monsters, just keep going. I can heal myself and I can kill them, its not a problem, but people seem to think it is.

Your kill count in a party means nothing, don't ever forget that.

Though you are perfectly capable of taking care of yourself and/or any monsters whose aggro you pull, you would do well to remember that you're in a cooperative party environment at that point, and play accordingly.

The kiting method should NOT be used as S.O.P. in a party. If you are in a party, it should only be used when the rest of the party has failed, and you must resort to it to survive, in order that you might be able to get the rest of the party back up and running again.

This is why.

5 people in the party plan on fights going in a particular manner, and you think it is perfectly fine to do your own thing and screw with everyone else.

Though a party might plan on fights going in a particular manner, all parties should always be ready to deal with a little chaos every now and then. If a ranger kiting has ruined a perfect plan, then that plan wasn't planned so perfectly after all, was it?

Be prepared for contingencies, they happen sometimes. They might be annoying, but they can be dealt with, and you can still come out with golden results.

Above all else, if there is a plan, make sure everyone knows it before setting out together. If the party leader prefers the Ranger didn't kite, then it's the party leader's duty to make sure that's communicated effectively.

To me (and many others) kiting is not generally efficient from a group standpoint, it isn't better - it is a solo way to play. To me and many others, you hurt the group by not being on the same page,

This really is the crux of the matter. Kiting, as many know it, isn't very party-friendly. It could be with a minor tweak to tactics, but I'll cover that below.

because there is rarely more than 5 mobs at a time, and if the 2 that you aren't kiting around die in second, then everyone spends a few minutes chasing aroudn the 2-3 your kiting, it's annoying.

Another unnecessary, yet common, it seems, inconvenience. Another that would be easily averted with a minor change in tactics.

Don't worry, between Blade barrier and repeaters Artificers will take over the role of "most hated kiters" soon.

Artificers shouldn't need to kite. Between Blade Barrier, Turrets, repeaters, Runearms, and homonculi, monsters should be dead, or darn close to it, by the time they reach the Artificer.

Not only that, but with Ablative Armor buff, an Artificer should be able to stand still and survive for the second or two it will take for the monster to die from repeater shots, pet, Runearm or the rest of the party.

The biggie about kitting is the low hit points a toon can have, so he cant just "tank" the mob, need to run off while at same time ending to take much more time killing it than regular brainless crush everything barbarian way.

This is also an important consideration. No matter what your class is, you should always be building with the consideration that you need to be able to survive at least a hit or two if you find yourself toe-to-toe with a monster.

With ranged characters, such as arcanes and Rangers, the idea is that the monster should be dead by the time it reaches you, or else be very close to death; close enough that just another shot or two will slay it.

If you can't acheive that goal, DO NOT be the first person to strike a target, no matter what class you're playing.


Now, to the kiting issue and tactics.

Rangers, if you're in a party, remember that the party as a whole has undertaken the quest as a cooperative party. You've been invited/accepted because the party is assuming that you'll support them, as they'll support you.

That's not gonna happen if you're always running away from them.

Rangers have two choices at the point they come toe-to-toe with a monster:
1) Move out of the monster's reach while continuing to use ranged weapons.
or
2) Switch to melee.

If you're going to choose #1, then please, remember you're in a party with people who are interested in helping you. If you're going to kite, then at least do it smartly, and kite the monster back into the fray where the melee's blades are whirling, or the Walls of Fire are burning. Not only will that help slay the monster faster, but you'll also ensure that you keep yourself within range for your party's healer (if you have one).

Don't run away from the party, run TOWARD them, they want to help you kill the monsters, really they do, I promise.

If you're going to choose option #2 (by far, the superior choice while in a party), then all you have to do is make sure you're hp's are respectable, that you're buffed, and are using appropriate weaponry. When the monster reaches you, make a quick weapon swap, and then finish them off. There shouldn't be any need to run away from the monster by the time it reaches you, it should almost be dead by that time, and if it's not...well...that says alot about your Ranger.

Now, I also have to say that, with the predominance of discussions regarding Rangers kiting, everyone obviously knows what to expect as the "common tactic" Rangers use, and by now should be able to go with the flow, so to speak. If the Ranger runs off and leaves the party, shrug it off, and run off without the Ranger. They made their choice to seperate from the rest of the party, Rangers tend to be self-sufficient so stop worrying about them if they run off.

However, unfortunate as it is, the tactic is flawed due to the fact that it really, REALLY, is not party-friendly, yet way too many Rangers continue to employ and defend this strategy.

The only tweak that needs to be made, is that Rangers have to make a conscious effort to NOT run away from their party. If they pull aggro to the party's back line, they need to either be prepared to deal with it there, or pull the aggro back to the melee.


If people wanted to watch you dance with monsters, they'd tune in for your regularly scheduled broadcast.

[Qhualor]

[QUOTE=Rawel_San;4087935]Also just to explain why rangers quite often have trouble getting into epic quests or take a while to get accepted
that's just due to the fact that they (in most quests) have lower dps then equivalently geared fighter/barb and
at the same time usually have lower hp to boot.

this is where people get the wrong idea about rangers, especially tempest builds. i cant speak for all, but my ranger does the same amount of damage in 2 swings that a heavy hitter does in 1 swing. by the time a barb (for example) swings again, im on my 3rd and 4th swing. if you include the haste boost, im swinging much faster than most dps who have just haste. include my double strike chance and theres like an extra swing basically. include my tharnes goggles with sneak attack which a lot of barbs/fighter types dont wear, there is more added damage. my ranger is decked out in gs and named loot, no epic gear yet, so of course a moderately geared dps with an esos will, chances are, do more damage than me, but i do keep pace with your normal pugger. yes the hp wont be close to a barb and sometimes a fighter, but the evasion is a trade off to the hp and there is a lot of element spells that get cast at us in quests, epic or not. also, if rangers are built properly and the driver is experienced at all, they can be self reliant and sp saver because ranger spells are pretty much for buffing and should have at least a cure spell. been quite a few times i was on my barb and healer dies and the ranger in the group would do his best to throw some heals and even throw a resist my way to keep me up long enough to make it to a shrine with the stones or kill the mob/boss so we could run to the shrine.

[sstaten]

once again, if they are build wrong they are squishie. 75% fort, good reflex saves with evasion and not horrible will. My ranger is elf, and without gimping myself I have over 250hp, sure not alot, but when you arnt getting hit, it doesnt matter.

Until, of course, you DO get hit.

[gloopygloop]

Do you know how rare it is to get a paralyzing longbow? iv seen maybe 10 in the Auction House since I hit level 10, Im level 14 , and they are all +1 or +2. I dont think I should trade in my +5 thundering Longbow of Slowburst for one and have to pay 100,000pp for one (which is usually how much they are in the auction house) I think one out of the ten was around 70kpp

They're really useful. They're really, really, really useful. That's why they're expensive.

What is your character's name and what server are you on? I'd be willing to bet that we can find someone who has a spare paralyzer on that server that you can use.

Also, 250 HP for level 14 isn't at all bad. You can self heal with Cure spells during a fight if something scary happens and the different cure spells are all on different cooldowns, so you can rotate through them if you need more than one spell can provide.

And if the Paralyzing longbow was a +1 or +2 Paralyzer for 70kpp, that's not a terrible price. In a couple of levels, you'll be running through the Shroud and you'll be able to rack up some serious cash by selling the vendor trash that you pick up as well as from selling the Large Shroud ingredients that you get in /trade (and not in the AH since you are F2P and can only sell one item at a time).

Last thought: dump the +5 Thundering Longbow of Slowburst. A +1 Holy Longbow of no Suffix is a better general purpose DPS bow and I'm positive that we can dig up a http://ddowiki.com/page/Silver_Longbow for you - no matter what server you're on. The Silver Longbow (which isn't Silver in spite of its name) has twice the normal critical hit range of a regular bow, so you'll get twice as many critical hits as you do with your current bow. And it's Holy, so you'll get +2d6 damage vs. evil enemies (i.e. most enemies) and you can bypass Damage Reduction on just about every enemy in the game with the appropriate metal type arrows (conveniently located in the House D vendor).

[Wrendd]

I must confess, I hate rangers. Of course I am an equal opportunity hater, I hate almost every class at one point or another. I am pretty sure I even hate my own toons several times a day.

That said, I do not hate rangers any more than any other class (except pallys, I really cant stand them). There is not one single class that I would ever deny a spot in my groups (even pallys, I like them IN my partys, but I still hate PLAYING them), but there are several players that I would deny.

Rangers can be an excellent member of a party as long as the person sitting at the keyboard knows when to put away the bow and pull out the swords, or to pull out the bow and prevent a wipe. I have seen many rangers save a group by pulling aggro and kiting while the cleric was down and the group was in the middle of a "Charlie Foxtrot". And I have also seen a ranger (or a mage), who insisted on kiting everything, casue the "Charlie Foxtrot."

I guess that what I am trying to say is that it is the behavior of the toon that earns the hate and not the class. Unfortunately, Rangers have the "bow mystique" and the newer players gravitate to the pew pew pew to avoid the melee damage, and that leads to the kiting that can cause problems in a group.

[Olath_Senger]

As no doubt most everyone in this thread has said, it's because you kite.

An effective Ranger (AA specifically as a Tempest fights like any normal melee) will know when to put the bow away and when to take out his two swords. Rangers get the full TWF line for free for a reason. I suggest you take advantage of it instead of going completely ranged.

What I do with AAs is melee up until I get Manyshot and imbues. Then I turn on Manyshot, fire away, and when Manyshot runs out, whip out a couple swords and go to town. That's how an AA should play, in my humble opinion.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

I have a thrown weapon specd fighter and I get a lot more hassle than you do. I always ask the leader of groups before I join, I'd say 75% of the time they don't mind. But if you are kiting around mobs then you are the type of player that is generating the hate of pew-pew.

In my case I try to remain aware of what is going on and target mobs that generally don't melee like casters and archers first (at least until aggro has been established). If I'm using improved precise shot at the time I invariably pick up some melee running at me. I will kite the mobs until I notice a melee is attempting to engage my kitees. What happens next differs depending on the situation. In most cases I will either stop moving or head towards my teammate. Depending on the amount of damage I'm getting hit for I might turtle up (I have quick draw), or if the melee is alright with it I'll continue to attack while circling my teammate in very tight cicles trying to keep the mobs on the other side of them.

Play smart, not hard.

[Razcar]

Unfortunately, Rangers have the "bow mystique" [...]

Me, I blame this guy:

[Qhualor]

so some people think AAs should use swords and only utilize the bow, which is the best weapon for an AA, when manyshot is up. whats the point in being AA if you cant use your bow most of the time? might as well go tempest or some other dps build. main thing is, if you range, play smart. keep a couple swords handy for situations, but dont put down the bow when you can do more damage with that than with swords. same way with my tempest. i use swords because they do more damage than my bows, but i use the bows for situations when needed.

[DogMania]

I see countless threads about the hate for rangers, and yes, I can agree with some points. Not alot of people build them well and tend to be third wheels on quests. I myself play an AA and I get some hard times trying to get into a pug because "you're a ranger, you cant help". Its rather anoying. Another point that people bring up is rangers tend to kite, now I dont see a problem with this, I kite all the time and end up with more kills then some of the fighters or barbs iv been with. Think is, If im kiting, dont heal me, dont chase after the monsters, just keep going. I can heal myself and I can kill them, its not a problem, but people seem to think it is. This isnt about epic level content either, this is just regular quests.

Share your ranger stories

I dont hate Rangers I just never usualy join a group if there are 2 in it or a Raid with 3. I usualy find (NOTE THE WORD USUALY) that Rangers have a tendancy to pull agro then not know what to do about it and run away leaving everyone else to sort the **** out and thats usualy when a Ranger sits behind the Healers and Casters which causes megger problems. But an experianced Ranger knows when to change from Range to Mele and help out. So No I dont hate Rangers I just pick my parties

[EllisDee37]

Also, 250 HP for level 14 isn't at all bad.

That's pretty squishie. At level 15, my ranger feels squishie with 327.

Last thought: dump the +5 Thundering Longbow of Slowburst. A +1 Holy Longbow of no Suffix is a better general purpose DPS bow and I'm positive that we can dig up a http://ddowiki.com/page/Silver_Longbow for you - no matter what server you're on. The Silver Longbow (which isn't Silver in spite of its name) has twice the normal critical hit range of a regular bow, so you'll get twice as many critical hits as you do with your current bow. And it's Holy, so you'll get +2d6 damage vs. evil enemies (i.e. most enemies) and you can bypass Damage Reduction on just about every enemy in the game with the appropriate metal type arrows (conveniently located in the House D vendor).

The crafted alternative is better DPS (and way better to-hit) and much easier/cheaper to get than a Silver Longbow. An ML13 +4 Holy of Bleed with a tiny guild augment for a +1 crystal of accuracy is the way to go. Even though I'm in a higher level guild I only use tinies on the bow because it's not worth the plat for a larger one. Not for bow accuracy.

If you don't have the crafting levels to make one yourself, go to the crafting hall and ask in trade channel if any high level crafter would make it for you. (You supply the essences, of course, plus probably extra essences as payment.)

Silver longbow: (+2 + 1d10) * 23 + (2d6 * 19) = 305.5
+4 Holy of Bleed: (+4 + 1d8) * 21 + (2d6 + 1d8) * 19 = 397.0

[-Nismu-]

Rangers life would be so much simpler if the melees would carry some ranged weapon, specially tanks.. so they could agro mosnters from distance and let ranger start his job earlier without having to worry agro. If everyone would just take those few shots before entering melee mobs would be often lot worse shape and fight would be over faster from the point enemy has chance to attack.

and when in doorway.. this often happens that i look that party is blocking it nicely so i shoot the enemy.. does the melee force block the door while i shoot and enemy runs toward? nope, they rush to middle of room and leave way open to me..

or the times when enemys rangeds shoot me standing still while one melee enemy chacing me.. which do they go.. to melee that is no harm to me and keeps running after me.. leaving those standing shooting enemy archers free to keep shooting me and making it risky to stop for melee mob also to start hit me.

webs and ottos disco balls are great btw.

[sstaten]

so some people think AAs should use swords and only utilize the bow, which is the best weapon for an AA, when manyshot is up. whats the point in being AA if you cant use your bow most of the time? might as well go tempest or some other dps build. main thing is, if you range, play smart. keep a couple swords handy for situations, but dont put down the bow when you can do more damage with that than with swords. same way with my tempest. i use swords because they do more damage than my bows, but i use the bows for situations when needed.

I do agree with this, My AA Ranger shoots most of the time (it helps a little that a Silver longbow does D10 damage over the usual D8) but when things get to me? Hey, there's a reason I carry a pair of good Longswords, ya know?

And in groups I tend to focus on hitting where my strengths lie and where the group needs the ranged firepower directed. That means ranged/caster enemies and (at lower levels when Ghost touch is rare) swapping arrow imbues to force to make incorporeal critters like Wraiths (Favored Enemy, undead) really hate unlife. Yeah, I'm not max level, but I do understand that it's a team game, you gotta support your team.

If that means an AA Ranger needs to pull some swords out and kick a cultist's face in up close and personal for the good of the team, you do it.

[Wrendd]

so some people think AAs should use swords and only utilize the bow, which is the best weapon for an AA, when manyshot is up. whats the point in being AA if you cant use your bow most of the time? might as well go tempest or some other dps build. main thing is, if you range, play smart. keep a couple swords handy for situations, but dont put down the bow when you can do more damage with that than with swords. same way with my tempest. i use swords because they do more damage than my bows, but i use the bows for situations when needed.

You are more than welcome to use your bow most of the time. But you need to be aware of aggro management. Don't pull the mobs first, wait for the melees to get aggro, or for the arcane to CC them, then do your thing. If you do pull aggro (and it will happen on occasion) then pull out the swords (or turtle up) and don't run away from the mob. Once the mob is again hitting the melees or is CC'd then go back to using the bow.

You can also (in some quests) be the guy that takes care of all the archer mobs that the melees have difficulty getting to, or you could focus on the enemy casters. A ranger with evasion is much better equiped to deal with the spell damage from casters than your typical fighter/barb.

Especially in raids, you need to be very aware of your aggro generation. If you go full multi-shot on Horoth in ToD... well, that is what we call a "bad thing". (once the tank has really solid aggro then it is ok to do this, but you have to be positive that the tank has it, I usually only see rangers do this after Suluu is dead.) Making sure the tank is the only one Horoth is beating on is very important, and if he breaks off the tank then chaos will most likely ensue (even if it is for a short time untill the tank regains aggro).

Again, feel free to use your bow the majority of the time, just learn the proper times to put the bow down and get up close and personal.

[landofshishio]

Another point i'd like to make is, IM the one thats usually pulling agro off of the casters, while the melee's are just standing there wacking away watching the casters HP drop, I usually get thanks from the casters and hate from the melee

THis is another point, as a caster i dont necessarily want some of them off me, with dual conc+torc it does proc often and is a regen for sp while i can heal myself as wf. in the end i end up wiht more sp than i starts some fight.