"Greater Evil Outsider Bane is Better"

[TheDearLeader]

Well if so, that's easy. Malicia/Abishai are both Devils, Lawful Evil Outsiders.

Malicia is a *bit* special, as are other succubi. I go into detail about them in this forum post. Abishai are fairly straightforward devils.

Long story short - the +5 Holy Burst Silver of GLOB that you craft to fight Horoth/Arraetrikos/Suulomades will be equally as effective against Abishai/Malicia, as well.

[DaSawks]

After posting my glorious MEH earlier in the discussion I decided to do some RESEARCH.
There is a little confusion about Demons and Rakshasas on the Wiki as they are listed on two categories. This leads me to believe that Demons and Rakshasas are both subsets. This should fix the confusion.
Tip #206: Devils are Lawful Evil and tend to dislike silver. Demons are Chaotic Evil and tend to dislike cold iron.

Here are the results according to DDOWIKI.com

After seeing this list I must conclude that GEOB is superior to GLOB based solely on the greater number of creatures the GEOB weapon will effect.

Lawful Outsiders include:
Devils
Efreeti
Hellhounds
Rakshasas*

Evil outsiders
Demons
Akuul
Azhakul the Fire Reaver
Bahhurat
Basthuul
Cacodemon
Dream Reaver
Fire Reaver
Flesh Render
Hezrou
Ice Flenser
Jarilith
Marilith
Pride Leader Xilic
Pyrodemon
Thaarak Hound
Ulzarian
Xorian Render
Zelnath

Devil race monsters
Abishai
Baiger
Baktor
Bazdor
Bearded Devil
Bearded Devil Trooper
Bezekira
Blood Plate
Elite Barbazu Legionnaire
Elite Othon Legionnaire
Gorgith-Tor
Jailer
Judge
Malicia
Odaka
Orthon
Primus Llotiquth
Razor Arm
Shock Trooper of Shavarath
Succubus
Tafzul
Turigulon

Efreet race monsters
Checroun
Efreeti

Hag race monsters
Sora Katra

Hellhound race monsters
Avarice
Flamefang
Hellhound
Hunger
Teargon

Quori race monsters
Devourer of Dreams
Dream Scourge
Dream Stealer
Galamesh
Quori Spider
Quori Stalker
Vidhan

Rakshasa race monsters
Lord Ragath
Rakshasa*
Rakshasa Thaumaurge

Tiefling race monsters
Faizi Larix
Ithun Orenah
Tiefling

Chaotic Outsider
Demons - see above
Chaotic Neutral Outsiders - Djinn, Chaotic Good Outsiders - Eladrin (Ghaele, Bralani)

[TheDearLeader]

After seeing this list I must conclude that GEOB is superior to GLOB based solely on the greater number of creatures the GEOB weapon will effect.

I must conclude you have selective reading issues.

Half those outsiders you just listed won't have their DR busted by a +5 Holy Burst Silver weapon, whether or not its suffix is GEOB or GLOB. Therefore, you're actually doing inferior damage if you're swinging the same weapon at both Demons and Devils.

And, you've spent an extra Demon's Blood, to do that inferior damage.

Craft +5 HBSoGLOB.
Craft +5 HBCoGCOB.
Laugh at those that craft GEOB.
????
Profit.

[Doganpc]

So the argument here is that a Holy Silver Weapon of EOB > Holy Silver Weapon of LOB? Which doesn't work because Silver doesn't bypass DR on Chaotic Evil Outsiders?..

OP, you just got game trolled. Dude was basically bullying you by coming up with a next to meaningless statement just to demean the work you put into your bane weapons. Yes, technically EOB > LOB or COB cause it covers both. However in practical application you need a Silver set and Cold Iron set so the point really is moot. Unless you went for the Metalline Flametouched Weapon of GEOB, but then he would have laughed at you for your lack of Burst DPS.

Dogan
Personally, I'll just finish my MineralII outdated weapon of works on everything.

[TheDearLeader]

So the argument here is that a Holy Silver Weapon of EOB > Holy Silver Weapon of LOB? Which doesn't work because Silver doesn't bypass DR on Chaotic Evil Outsiders?..

OP, you just got game trolled. Dude was basically bullying you by coming up with a next to meaningless statement just to demean the work you put into your bane weapons. Yes, technically EOB > LOB or COB cause it covers both. However in practical application you need a Silver set and Cold Iron set so the point really is moot. Unless you went for the Metalline Flametouched Weapon of GEOB, but then he would have laughed at you for your lack of Burst DPS.

Dogan
Personally, I'll just finish my MineralII outdated weapon of works on everything.

Except if you read two posts above yours, there are, indeed, people who don't seem to understand the basic concepts behind the types of outsiders, their damage reduction, and why GEOB would be a redundant waste.

[shadow_419]

After posting my glorious MEH earlier in the discussion I decided to do some RESEARCH.
There is a little confusion about Demons and Rakshasas on the Wiki as they are listed on two categories. This leads me to believe that Demons and Rakshasas are both subsets. This should fix the confusion.
Tip #206: Devils are Lawful Evil and tend to dislike silver. Demons are Chaotic Evil and tend to dislike cold iron.

Here are the results according to DDOWIKI.com

After seeing this list I must conclude that GEOB is superior to GLOB based solely on the greater number of creatures the GEOB weapon will effect.
...snip long list... ...snip...

While correct in that GEOB affects more creatures than GLOB, you're forgetting that GLOB will affect every creature that GEOB will if silver is also part of the DR. Same goes for GCOB and Cold iron.

[TheDearLeader]

While correct in that GEOB affects more creatures than GLOB, you're forgetting that GLOB will affect every creature that GEOB will if silver is also part of the DR. Same goes for GCOB and Cold iron.

Which is the point I've been trying to get across. I think people not familiar with D&D Monsters don't understand that while they may be listed as Evil Outsiders, they are also Lawful or Chaotic in the case of the creatures we fight.

[Fejj]

You are mistaken, I'll hook you up with why.

When you're living life as an outsider, you live it in two ways.

You're not just an Evil Outsider - you're a Lawful/Chaotic Outsider, as well. There are currently no Neutral Evil Outsiders in DDO.

These "bosses" you speak up - let me go out on a limb here:
Arraetrikos - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Horoth - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Suulomades - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Turigulon - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Laitlat - Demon, Chaotic Evil Outsider
....

The list goes on. These "end game bosses" are either Devils, or they are Demons. They will either be hit by Lawful, or Chaotic, Outsider Bane, as well as Evil Outsider Bane.

Ah, but this only tells half the story. We also have the "damage reduction" feature in Dungeons and Dragons.

Arraetrikos - Devil, Silver + Good
Horoth - Devil, Silver + Good
Suulomades - Devil, Silver + Good
Turigulon - Devil, Silver + Good
Laitlat - Demon, Cold Iron + Good

So, when you're crafting weapons, you'll have two sets - Holy (Burst) + Silver for Devils, and Holy (Burst) + Cold Iron for Demons. Why? Because you want to bust DR. So, no "Inventory Space" is preserved here - you will have two unique weapons/weapon sets.

So then, we can safely assume you will have these two different kids of weapons for the different types of Evil Outsiders currently in game. Well... if each type of weapon is already specifically crafted to counter one enemy type, why not also make that Bane Suffix affect just that type?

GEOB is almost as expensive as individually crafting both a GLOB and GCOB, and because it does not assist you with the "DR" component, it provides no additional benefit to you as a player.

Thank you for clearing this up. Terrific information

[rendet]

You are mistaken, I'll hook you up with why.

When you're living life as an outsider, you live it in two ways.

You're not just an Evil Outsider - you're a Lawful/Chaotic Outsider, as well. There are currently no Neutral Evil Outsiders in DDO.

These "bosses" you speak up - let me go out on a limb here:
Arraetrikos - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Horoth - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Suulomades - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Turigulon - Devil, Lawful Evil Outsider
Laitlat - Demon, Chaotic Evil Outsider
....

The list goes on. These "end game bosses" are either Devils, or they are Demons. They will either be hit by Lawful, or Chaotic, Outsider Bane, as well as Evil Outsider Bane.

Ah, but this only tells half the story. We also have the "damage reduction" feature in Dungeons and Dragons.

Arraetrikos - Devil, Silver + Good
Horoth - Devil, Silver + Good
Suulomades - Devil, Silver + Good
Turigulon - Devil, Silver + Good
Laitlat - Demon, Cold Iron + Good

So, when you're crafting weapons, you'll have two sets - Holy (Burst) + Silver for Devils, and Holy (Burst) + Cold Iron for Demons. Why? Because you want to bust DR. So, no "Inventory Space" is preserved here - you will have two unique weapons/weapon sets.

So then, we can safely assume you will have these two different kids of weapons for the different types of Evil Outsiders currently in game. Well... if each type of weapon is already specifically crafted to counter one enemy type, why not also make that Bane Suffix affect just that type?

GEOB is almost as expensive as individually crafting both a GLOB and GCOB, and because it does not assist you with the "DR" component, it provides no additional benefit to you as a player.

Great summary you wrote up. Easy to understand and clear. Too bad this info will get buried in a thread while the harber know it alls continue to spread their miss-information Keep fighting the good fight!

[JollySwagMan]

This isn't any one particular occasion, but normally, yes. What brought me to the forums was that I'd heard this circular logic of trying to defend GEOB as "better" than GLOB multiple times.

Fair enough - I was going to suggest that perhaps it was a snarky response to unsolicted item linkage

As that's not the case, and this thread is more a result of players demanding a link from you, I can certainly appreciate why you would make this thread! Consolidating the evil/lawful outsider DR information like you have in this thread (which I am guessing might be linked along with the item?) is also quite helpful, kudos.

[EllisDee37]

Greater Evil Outsider Bane can help you keep the same weapon in your hand when you're killing an assortment of Evil Outsider trash. There aren't many places where you have to fight both Lawful Evil Outsiders and Chaotic Evil Outsiders, but it does happen from time to time, so there is at least some advantage there.

The flipside to this logic is that there are times when you want to hit a Chaotic Good Outsider, so if you went with Evil Outsider you'd have to change weapons.

[TheDearLeader]

The flipside to this logic is that there are times when you want to hit a Chaotic Good Outsider, so if you went with Evil Outsider you'd have to change weapons.

For Chaotic Good Outsiders, I'd craft Unholy Cold Iron. In fact.. I did. And they are sick looking (Video)

[Dilgar]

I could see making your cold iron set GEOB because the efreeti in the DQ fight are lawful.

[KajaGrae]

Just craft a Metalline GEOB for all trash instead, that way, you don't have to waste a GCD with that whole weapon switch thing on the offhand chance something comes up.














..........X-D lol

[TheDearLeader]

I could see making your cold iron set GEOB because the efreeti in the DQ fight are lawful.

At the price of a Devil Scale, or two as a TWF? I'ma say nah. Maybe if they stayed alive more than 10 seconds, I'd care more about getting Bane-Based damage on them.

[EllisDee37]

For Chaotic Good Outsiders, I'd craft Unholy Cold Iron. In fact.. I did. And they are sick looking (Video)

Something I've been wondering about recently as I apporach my first capped character with an eye for tr'ing, and you might be the perfect person to ask:

How many metallic crafted weapons would you have to throw away if you tr'ed? (Due to space constraints in the tr cache, I mean.)

[TheDearLeader]

Something I've been wondering about recently as I apporach my first capped character with an eye for tr'ing, and you might be the perfect person to ask:

How many metallic crafted weapons would you have to throw away if you tr'ed?

Edit : Oops, I went off on a tangent, and you're talking about TR Cache...

Your TR Cache is as big as every inventory space, every bank space, and every equipped item you have. You don't have to throw any away, although some with extremely huge TR caches have reported they need to pull an item out sometimes to see all items in the Cache.


Tangent Below...
I guess it would depend, really.

The standard +5 Holy Burst [Metal] of Greater Bane is ML:20

So, if you wanted to do at-level Demon Queen, or Shroud/VoD before capping, you'd have to craft interim weapons. Or, of course, farm Devil Assault until you find unbound weapons of the correct metal and alignment type.

A third option, of course, for a long-established toon TRing - use your Min IIs on Devils/Demons until 20.

So I guess the answer would be: as many, or as few, as you choose to work around.

As far as my Crafter, Oschkosch, was concerned:

He was a Dwarven Barb, using Greataxes. Prior to TRing, I crafting him Silver and Cold Iron Devil/Demon beaters.

Now, he is Human Rogue, using Khopeshes.

So, I have two Greataxes sitting in my TR bank, doing nothing. I may someday decon them for mats, or I may keep holding onto them on the off chance I can someday make them unbound and give/sell them off.

Individual results will vary, I do believe. If you plan on TRing a lot, but using the same weapons, I'd suggest making them +4 Holy of Regular Bane, to keep them ML:15.

[wax_on_wax_off]

There are currently no Neutral Evil Outsiders in DDO.

Just because you don't fight them it doesn't mean that they aren't there.

Remember those lovely guys the Yugoloth that you jumped to the beck and call of? Turns out that they are the Neutral Evil Outsiders of DDO formerly referred to as Daemons (in previous D&D versions).

Yeah, if I was a smart evil outsider I'd have lots of wannabe heroes take down my enemies too ...

[TheDearLeader]

I am aware that the Yugoloth are Malefactors, or Neutral Evil, and Neutral Evil Outsiders.

I meant that DDO has no Neutral Evil Outsiders that we combat. The day we fight a Yugoloth, of course things will change.

Just because you don't fight them it doesn't mean that they aren't there.

Remember those lovely guys the Yugoloth that you jumped to the beck and call of? Turns out that they are the Neutral Evil Outsiders of DDO formerly referred to as Daemons (in previous D&D versions).

Yeah, if I was a smart evil outsider I'd have lots of wannabe heroes take down my enemies too ...

[gloopygloop]

The flipside to this logic is that there are times when you want to hit a Chaotic Good Outsider, so if you went with Evil Outsider you'd have to change weapons.

The only fight where you fight CG Outsiders that I know of is Running With The Devils. If you're going to be serious about contributing DPS in that quest, you'll need Unholy on the weapon in addition to Greater Chaotic Outsider Bane. I really can't see the point in doing that when the servers are chock full of characters who carry LitII and MinII weapons or Circle of Death/Wail of the Banshee. Does that mean I'm not killing my "fair share" of enemies on a first life? Probably. For that one quest, I'm okay with that. I do plenty in other quests.

Sometimes "good enough" really is good enough.