Canneth Crafting with class spasific components? Realy? (Soul Gems)

[Dwane_Diblie]

I have been loving the Canneth Crafting System. Put a lot of down time in to it just for the fun of it. But, with the reacent updates came changes to recipes, this is fine, making things harder to craft, and they should be.

What I am in disagreement with is the need for components that can only be created by 2 classes in the whole game. Soul gems used in crafting Bane and Greater Bane weapons. This is supose to be basic crafting is it not? Low level stuff for people that do not have access to GS crafting and the such. So why put in ingredients that can only be gotten on the AH for whatever over the top price these Wiz/Sorc's put them on for. They are selling now for more than what the item with the same bane on it is selling for.

Now I actualy realy like the idea of useing the Soul of a creature to create a weapon that hurts that creature and I would not mind it continuing. There just needs to be a way for us players with out Soul Trap to get Soul Gems. I there for propose that when deconstructing a Bane or Greater Bane weapon there is a small chance of getting ether a Soul Gem or components to make a Soul Gem. Something like Ork Soul Essence. Then you get 10 of them to make a Week Soul Gem. Combine 5 Weak to get a Soul Gem and so on. So yeah Wiz and Sorc can go get them they usual way but everyone has the ability to obtain them through hard work finding, decronstructiong and recombining bits of souls to make their weapons.

The real point of all of this is thet for a basic crafting system there should be no items used that no character can not find or make themselves.

[Simplesimon1979]

Yeah it's a pain if you don't have a caster at lvl 15 to farm them. I've been collecting them for people in my guild for just the conponte cost. For the time being you could see if there are any helpfull casters in your guild

[Gremmlynn]

Yeah it's a pain if you don't have a caster at lvl 15 to farm them. I've been collecting them for people in my guild for just the conponte cost. For the time being you could see if there are any helpfull casters in your guild

This doesn't work so well if your guild has a designated crafter (in training) as asking for components in guild generally lead to being asked why you would selfishly use essences to craft when they could be used for the benefit of the whole guild by helping burn out the, current, crafter.

[dunklezhan]

Lets be honest Dwane. You just want to use Cannith crafting to make a decent set of tooth braces. Don't you?

[Jaid314]

i don't particularly have any problem with your proposed solution (bane weapons dropping stuff to turn into soul gems), but it should be noted that *any* class can make soul gems. it's just horrendously more costly for anyone who isn't a caster (unless you extend the number of soul gems to be created up to some arbitrarily high number).

there are greensteel soul-eating weapons (and greensteel soul-eating guard items) that create soul gems, and there is also the souleater epic staff.

so, it's not so much that it's *impossible* for someone to create soul gems without outside help unless they're a sorcerer or wizard... merely that it's very very costly (though again, if you're looking to make some arbitrarily high number of them, eventually it will be cheaper to use greensteel), and not terribly reliable.

[HAL]

there are greensteel soul-eating weapons (and greensteel soul-eating guard items) that create soul gems, and there is also the souleater epic staff.

The problem is that Cannith Crafting was supposed to be for people who did not have access to greensteel, etc.

[herzkos]

i don't particularly have any problem with your proposed solution (bane weapons dropping stuff to turn into soul gems), but it should be noted that *any* class can make soul gems. it's just horrendously more costly for anyone who isn't a caster (unless you extend the number of soul gems to be created up to some arbitrarily high number).

there are greensteel soul-eating weapons (and greensteel soul-eating guard items) that create soul gems, and there is also the souleater epic staff.

so, it's not so much that it's *impossible* for someone to create soul gems without outside help unless they're a sorcerer or wizard... merely that it's very very costly (though again, if you're looking to make some arbitrarily high number of them, eventually it will be cheaper to use greensteel), and not terribly reliable.

the problem there as I see it is:
congratulations, you've set up a nested grind anyway you look at it.
you must either have a lvl 15 or higher trap the soul caster.
or you must grind out greensteel items.
either way, you MUST grind to grind.
very poor implementation and definitely increases the gap between the haves and have nots which
crafting was originally supposed to lessen.

[cyberberus]

Of course they might just have the answer to the problem waiting in the wings ...

.... Soul Gems NOW AVAILABLE IN THE DDO STORE!!!!

<sarcasm intended>

[Zirun]

The main problem is that up until now Soul Gems have been less-than-useful, so casters haven't been using Trap the Soul, which makes Soul Gems expensive to buy.

All there needs to be is more casters casting TtS, and everything should be theoretically fine...

Adding Soul Gems to loot tables like Purified Ebberon Dragonshard Fragments and some of the other crafting ingredients have been couldn't hurt, though.

[Gremmlynn]

The main problem is that up until now Soul Gems have been less-than-useful, so casters haven't been using Trap the Soul, which makes Soul Gems expensive to buy.

All there needs to be is more casters casting TtS, and everything should be theoretically fine...

If having other people play the game for you is considered fine.

Adding Soul Gems to loot tables like Purified Ebberon Dragonshard Fragments and some of the other crafting ingredients have been couldn't hurt, though.

At the very least. Better to add a soul traping recipe of some sort at about the same level as bane shards.

[zukt]

This is silly. Soul gems as of now went from almost completely useless outside of the adamantine ritual to merely mostly useless, and yet some people are still whining that they have to ask a caster or buy a soul gem off the auction. Oh noes.

[EllisDee37]

Just add Trap the Soul to a hireling arcane and be done with it. Everybody wins.

[Jaid314]

This is silly. Soul gems as of now went from almost completely useless outside of the adamantine ritual to merely mostly useless, and yet some people are still whining that they have to ask a caster or buy a soul gem off the auction. Oh noes.

i also agree with this (though i still wouldn't particularly have a problem with bane weapons deconning into soul gem bits).

honestly, why is it such a horrific thing that you might have to interact with other players (if you don't have the content or classes needed to just make your own ingredients)? you don't even have to talk to them if you don't want, you can just look for soul gems on the auction house.

[EllisDee37]

honestly, why is it such a horrific thing that you might have to interact with other players (if you don't have the content or classes needed to just make your own ingredients)? you don't even have to talk to them if you don't want, you can just look for soul gems on the auction house.

It's easy to say that when the imbalance favors you. What if the crucial arcane ingredients could only be made by fighters and barbarians, or had a small chance to randomly proc if you crafted an expensive, high end greensteel item? Would you eagerly greet the idea that now you're at the mercy of melees in order to make your fundamental cannith crafting gear?

Undead bane is possibly the most staple shard in cannith crafting for melees; you need it at low levels, you can craft it at low levels, but for some inexplicable reason you need to rely on the charity of unknown arcanes to make it for you? That's patently ridiculous.

Also, before anyone claims how they put up a bunch of soul gems for cheap on the ah and nobody wanted them, no more cherry picking with halfling bane or whatever garbage you're using. Put up undead soul gems for cheap and see how long they last.

[bradleyforrest]

It's easy to say that when the imbalance favors you. What if the crucial arcane ingredients could only be made by fighters and barbarians, or had a small chance to randomly proc if you crafted an expensive, high end greensteel item? Would you eagerly greet the idea that now you're at the mercy of melees in order to make your fundamental cannith crafting gear?

Undead bane is possibly the most staple shard in cannith crafting for melees; you need it at low levels, you can craft it at low levels, but for some inexplicable reason you need to rely on the charity of unknown arcanes to make it for you? That's patently ridiculous.

Also, before anyone claims how they put up a bunch of soul gems for cheap on the ah and nobody wanted them, no more cherry picking with halfling bane or whatever garbage you're using. Put up undead soul gems for cheap and see how long they last.

I play primarily casters. If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't have a problem with going on the AH to buy the bits that I needed to craft. Or asking a guildie. Or rolling up a melee with the sole purpose of farming the ingredients.

Just because your main character can't directly get them does not mean that you have absolutely no access to them. There are plenty of ways to get access to soul gems so that you can craft your bane weapons.

If you'd rather complain about it than actually doing something about it, that's your problem. I'll continue to be social in this inherently social game and ask or reply to requests for help.

[EllisDee37]

If you'd rather complain about it than actually doing something about it

For you it may be one or the other, but some of us can do both.

[Gremmlynn]

If you'd rather complain about it than actually doing something about it, that's your problem. I'll continue to be social in this inherently social game and ask or reply to requests for help.

For myself, I'd rather just write it off as dev failure and ignore the whole system. I'm sorry but even random luck at pulling just the right item (lootgen) is, to me, superior to a system in which I will never be able to get the item short of playing a class or grinding a raid I have no interest in.

As far as the social aspects. I've always found it more enjoyable to choose to socialize with others because of who they are than what they can do for me. So no, I wont be your friend just because you offer me soul gems, nor would I think of imposing on those who are my friends by asking or even hinting that I need them. Better to do without than to lose the respect of your peers by begging IMO.

As for buying the **** things, seems an awful waste of time to level crafting if it just leads back to where you started, hoping what you need is on the AH. That's if one considers using the AH as being less cheesy and pay-to-win than I do.

[MrkGrismer]

I am betting the new craftable in Update 11 will allow melees to get soul gems.

However, I expect it to require some other type of hugely annoying grind (possibly an item from each of the two new raids)

Edit: Nevermind, apparently not

[Jaid314]

It's easy to say that when the imbalance favors you. What if the crucial arcane ingredients could only be made by fighters and barbarians, or had a small chance to randomly proc if you crafted an expensive, high end greensteel item? Would you eagerly greet the idea that now you're at the mercy of melees in order to make your fundamental cannith crafting gear?

Undead bane is possibly the most staple shard in cannith crafting for melees; you need it at low levels, you can craft it at low levels, but for some inexplicable reason you need to rely on the charity of unknown arcanes to make it for you? That's patently ridiculous.

Also, before anyone claims how they put up a bunch of soul gems for cheap on the ah and nobody wanted them, no more cherry picking with halfling bane or whatever garbage you're using. Put up undead soul gems for cheap and see how long they last.

you mean, it's easy to say that when the imbalance favors anyone who's bothered to actually make one of those classes or one of those greensteel weapons/items?

news flash: it's always going to favor the people who prepared for it. in the meanwhile, you don't have to farm anything, or grind anything, to get soul gems. you just have to have plat. you don't have to beg for it, you don't have to pressure your friends into getting it, and you don't have to promise to be someone's friend to get it. you just need to offer enough plat. in much the same way as you might have to offer plat to get your hands on a large devil scale, or a demon's blood, or anything else.

this is not built to be a solo game. you can whine and moan all you want, but the fact that it can take more than one person to make something is not a problem. the fact that you personally don't have the character type that can make the ingredient most easily is not a problem. the only actual problem is that you're not willing to work with someone else. the ingredients are available to anyone, and it doesn't require that you rely on anyone's generosity, or impose on any of your friends. the fact that you're unwilling to go shopping for it is not the fault of the game, that would be your own personal choice.

[EllisDee37]

What you're not getting is that it doesn't take more than one person, it takes a specific person. If soul gems required any two people to work together, that would be fine and would legitimize all your arguments. But it doesn't; it takes arcanes specifically. That's why the system as designed sucks.

EDIT: For example, a new f2p quest with soul gems in a chest, but the chest is in a room you need 4 people to pull 4 levers (or stand on pressure plates) simultaneously to unlock, similar to Xorian Cypher. That would be aces with me, and that would actually be the kind of system you guys are defending. But the type of system you're defending doesn't actually exist. The one we have is an arbitrary game imbalance with absolutely no justification apart from flavor. That makes it full of fail.