Minimum Clericality or Paladinishness

[Scraek]

I'm a noob. I played just to lv20 once, years ago, so the basics are familiar and I'm looking at the wiki.

I hate the undead. I don't want to be a rogue, but I hate locked doors... Thinking about a Half Orc, mostly fighter, but starting out Paladin and/or Cleric for the enhancement trees and extras. Maybe shift to mostly Cleric later after I have 32 (36?) point builds and have resurrected from Fighter some times for the passive past life thing for to-hit rolls and tactical DC's.

1) Is 14 CHA enough to get by?
I guess with only a few levels many class skills, like Lay on Hands won't be that great, but I was surprised when the game gave me errors stopping me from casting spells with 6CHA or using Lay on Hands. Will 14 let me heal myself with low level (Lv1 & 2?)cleric spells, and most importantly will I get the effect of the paladin's lv2 immunity passive?

2) How do I make a "Forgotten Realms" character?
I would like to follow Silvanus for the Maul bonuses but I don't see any options for that at character creation. I am a subscriber if that helps.

[unbongwah]

2) How do I make a "Forgotten Realms" character?

All of the FR races are P2P. Silvanus is only a deity option for Purple Dragon Knight (PDK), Shadar-kai (SDK), or Deep Gnome (DG). So right off the bat, you have to give up on being a half-orc follower of Silvanus. You need to unlock the correct Iconic race either thru the DDO Store or included with the Shadowfell expansion from the DDO Market.

[Grace_ana]

Before you actually roll up a character, what do you want to get out of it? You know what you hate at least, which is good. I'm unsure based on the rest what the goal is.

Did you roll up a rogue and struggle with undead? (Hence your "don't want a rogue, hate undead" statement?) That would be understandable, since undead are kinda the bane of rogues due to their sneak attack immunities. There are ways around that if you wanted to know, but I'll just assume for now you don't.

I assume you want melee since you're looking at fighter, but you want to be able to turn undead to deal with them quickly. If that's the case, I'm not sure what you want to get out of the fighter levels, because more paladin will get you better and more turn undeads.

However, please understand that turn undead is a tricky ability. It takes a ton of lives and gear to make it effective in epics and later heroics because of the way it is coded.

There are easier ways to easily deal with undead. Making sure you have the right kind of weapon helps. Holy, pure good, undead bane, ghost touch, and disruption are all things to look for in your undead-beating weapon. Also remember that skellies need a blunt weapon, and zombies need a slashing weapon for full DR bypass (to get full damage).

As far as getting locked doors, you really only need a level of either rogue or artificer, and then put skill points in open lock. That's the most reliable. You can also take enough levels in an arcane class to cast knock, which will unlock things, or have enough UMD to use knock scrolls. That has a lower success rate generally than manually unlocking it, however, particularly on locks with higher DCs.

I hope at least some of this helps, since I'm not entirely sure what you were looking for

[unbongwah]

Actually if you want "half-orc undead beater who can open locks," I'd make a HO pure paladin with the Finding DM feat and the Lock Bash racial enhancement. Because nothing says "communing with the power of my god" quite like smashing chests open like the loot pinatas they are!

[Gleep_Wurp]

I'm a noob. I played just to lv20 once, years ago, so the basics are familiar and I'm looking at the wiki.

I hate the undead. I don't want to be a rogue, but I hate locked doors... Thinking about a Half Orc, mostly fighter, but starting out Paladin and/or Cleric for the enhancement trees and extras. Maybe shift to mostly Cleric later after I have 32 (36?) point builds and have resurrected from Fighter some times for the passive past life thing for to-hit rolls and tactical DC's.

1) Is 14 CHA enough to get by?
I guess with only a few levels many class skills, like Lay on Hands won't be that great, but I was surprised when the game gave me errors stopping me from casting spells with 6CHA or using Lay on Hands. Will 14 let me heal myself with low level (Lv1 & 2?)cleric spells, and most importantly will I get the effect of the paladin's lv2 immunity passive?

2) How do I make a "Forgotten Realms" character?
I would like to follow Silvanus for the Maul bonuses but I don't see any options for that at character creation. I am a subscriber if that helps.

read the wiki

[Vish]

So you want a fighter paladin cleric?
For some fighter past lives?
And a half Orc...
And your VIP?
and you want mauls.

Well, the second question probably answered the first one.

I would say a 12/6/2 fighter cleric paladin
And a 14 char would be good,
But your 28 pt?
14 10 14 10 12 14

Hope that helps, just my best guess

Hmm, you wanted lays too,
So you're probably looking at an 8/6/6 split
Pretty tricky multi class

[Scraek]

Thanks all, very helpful! - No biggie about mauls. Warhammer and shield works fine. Fighter/Paladin gives me plenty of enhancement and feat options that I don't necessarily need to go THF.

Actually if you want "half-orc undead beater who can open locks," I'd make a HO pure paladin with the Finding DM feat and the Lock Bash racial enhancement. Because nothing says "communing with the power of my god" quite like smashing chests open like the loot pinatas they are!

This is where I started. HO full strength paladin is perfect for me.

I'm going to need to resurrect at least once to get 32 builds though right? So I wanted to get the fighter past lives.

[C-Dog]

I'm going to need to resurrect at least once to get 32 builds though right?

No, you need to hit 1,750 total Favor on any 1 character (before you build this one - altho' you could LR, everyone gets a Lesser Heart). You can also buy Champion (32 pt build) via the DDO store.

TR'ing adds +2 build points to Champions (from 32 to 34, and then to 36 max) - not sure what happens if an "Adventurer" (28 pt build) TR's at 20 without gaining Champion status.

[Scraek]

No, you need to hit 1,750 total Favor on any 1 character (before you build this one - altho' you could LR, everyone gets a Lesser Heart). You can also buy Champion (32 pt build) via the DDO store.

TR'ing adds +2 build points to Champions (from 32 to 34, and then to 36 max) - not sure what happens if an "Adventurer" (28 pt build) TR's at 20 without gaining Champion status.

Okay, so the 28pt character can't actually get to a 36pt build? I have to get 32 unlocked then make the HO to go fighter and TR twice, then his third life would be 36pt and then I'd go with pure paladin.

The other one I liked was pale master. I was playing around with that while waiting for replies to this thread. I'll just shoot for 1,750 on this one then make my HO. Harper Agent, insightful reflexes and Knock. Seems like this is going to work fine on a 28pt build since everything is coming off INT.

[EllisDee37]

not sure what happens if an "Adventurer" (28 pt build) TR's at 20 without gaining Champion status.

They become a 34pt build. My first several characters had to do this since I rolled up three of them (that I still have, seven years later) before I had reached 1750 favor.

[unbongwah]

Okay, so the 28pt character can't actually get to a 36pt build? I have to get 32 unlocked then make the HO to go fighter and TR twice, then his third life would be 36pt and then I'd go with pure paladin.

On a first life your build is either 28 or 32 pts, depending on whether you unlocked Champion status beforehand (either thru Favor or DDO Store). The first time you TR you become a 34-pt build, regardless of whether you started 28 or 32; on your second (and all subsequent) TRs, you will have 36 build pts. Note that drow count as 32-pt builds natively due to their extra stat bonuses; so if you TR into drow, they gain 30/32 build pts to spend rather than 34/36.

If anything, I would do paladin before fighter: they're easier to solo on a first life due to high saves and self-healing (despite needing CHA as well as STR); and the heal amp you gain from the pally PL feat will make subsequent lives easier. But how you ride the TR Train is ultimately up to you.

[Oliphant]

I've enjoyed 15Pally/5Fighter using the Tier 5 Kensei fighter enhancement line... I forget the details. 15 is the minimum amount of Pally I would recommend. At 15 you get two level 4 spells, so you get Holy Sword and Zeal, must haves.

[unbongwah]

I've enjoyed 15Pally/5Fighter using the Tier 5 Kensei fighter enhancement line... I forget the details. 15 is the minimum amount of Pally I would recommend. At 15 you get two level 4 spells, so you get Holy Sword and Zeal, must haves.

If you're going T5 Kensei, you might as well do ftr 6 / pal 14; Keen Edge + Strike w/No Thought are the same crit bonuses as Holy Sword and you get an extra feat too.

[HuneyMunster]

I've enjoyed 15Pally/5Fighter using the Tier 5 Kensei fighter enhancement line... I forget the details. 15 is the minimum amount of Pally I would recommend. At 15 you get two level 4 spells, so you get Holy Sword and Zeal, must haves.

14Pally/6Fighter would be about the same as 15/5 as Kensei Strike With No Thought and Keen Edge will give the +1 crit range and multiplier of Holy Sword and would still be able to take Zeal spell.

Holy Sword does have 1 enhancement bonus to weapon while Strike With No Thought I think will also give 3 doublestrike and additional stack of Spiritual Bond after vorpal to potential bring it to the same as Holy Sword.

The last comparison is a fighter feat vs the potential loss of 3 to saves.

[C-Dog]

They become a 34pt build...

(thx - updated Wiki to that effect.)

[C-Dog]

Okay, so the 28pt character can't actually get to a 36pt build? I have to get 32 unlocked then make the HO to go fighter and TR twice, then his third life would be 36pt and then I'd go with pure paladin.

Zactly! (Not such a noob after all.)

The other one I liked was pale master. I was playing around with that while waiting for replies to this thread. I'll just shoot for 1,750 on this one then make my HO. Harper Agent, insightful reflexes and Knock. Seems like this is going to work fine on a 28pt build since everything is coming off INT.

There's also the Pale Trapper variant, which is still a solid 28 pt build, and doesn't need to slot Knock to get the job done.


Couple side comments...

If you still have that Lvl 20 character, it shouldn't be too hard to unlock 1750 favor - he's gotta be close. Put up LFM's that ask for Elite openers (esp for chains), change the Level range to "1-30", and state "For Favor". There are lots of players in your same boat who can open any quest you own, and would be happy to zerg toward that goal with you (and sometimes FOR you!).

Also, often a "1st character" (not technically, but still) does not end up being your favorite. You see how it plays, you see others in parties, and you change your mind about... something. Don't feel that you will be locked in - 2nd characters enjoy a lot of benefits from having a "rich older relative".

[Scraek]

I do not still have my lv20. I wasn't able to recover my original account.

No biggie. I'm having fun going through.

Pale Master's skeleton is really impressive and Harper Agent is awesome. In fact, Harper Agent even has additional summoned ally stat boosts. So I'm running around maxed out for INT, knocking open locks and having the skeletal knight hit strength and wisdom checks for me. Feels like I'm cheating except for being a bit squishy.

[unbongwah]

I was sure I posted this before but can't find it now, so whatever.

HOrcadin Seeker
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Half-Orc


Stats
               28pt     32pt     34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        18       18       18       18                4: STR
Dexterity        8        8        8        8                8: STR
Constitution    14       14       15       16               12: STR
Intelligence    12       12       12       12       +2      16: STR
Wisdom           8        8        8        8               20: STR
Charisma        12       14       14       14               24: STR
                                                            28: STR

Skills
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   2  2     2     2  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Intim     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Heal                           1     2     2     2     2     2     2  13
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         12  3  3  3  3  3  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4


Feats

 1        : Power Attack
 1 Deity  : Follower of: Onatar
 3        : Least Dragonmark: Finding
 6        : Two Handed Fighting
 6 Deity  : Onatar's Forge
 9        : Improved Critical: Slashing
12        : Improved Two Handed Fighting
15        : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18        : Quicken Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Cleave OR Empower Healing Spell
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction OR Stunning Blow
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : Blinding Speed OR Epic Fortitude
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Knight of the Chalice (41 AP)
Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil III, Champion of Good
Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
Divine Might III, Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
Improved Restoration III, Divine Sacrifice I, Exalted Smite I
Censure Demons, Passion I, Empowered Smite
Censure Outsiders, Holy Retribution III, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life

Sacred Defender (21 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense, Divine Righteousness
Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
Bulwark Aura III, Resilient Defense II
Resistance Aura III, Tenacious Defense III
Swift Defense

Half-Orc (18 AP)
Orcish Fury
Tharashk Dragonmark Focus II, Mighty Sundering I, Orcish Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Finding, Lock Bash, Orcish Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Finding, Orcish Weapon Training
Brutality, Orcish Weapon Training

Leveling Guide
Orc0 Orcish Fury; Orc1 Orcish Weapon Training; SD0 Holy Bastion
SD1 Extra Lay On Hands I, II, III; Orc1 Mighty Sundering I
Orc1 Tharashk Dragonmark Focus I; Orc2 Lesser Dragonmark of Finding; Orc2 Lock Bash
KoC0 Slayer of Evil; KoC1 Extra Smite I, II; KoC1 Extra Turning I
KoC1 Extra Turning II; KoC2 Exalted Cleave I, II, III
KoC0 Courage of Heaven; KoC2 Melee Power Boost I; KoC0 Slayer of Evil II; KoC2 Melee Power Boost II
KoC2 Melee Power Boost III; KoC3 Divine Sacrifice I; KoC3 Exalted Smite I
KoC2 Divine Might I, II
KoC4 Empowered Smite; KoC4 Passion I; KoC4 Censure Demons
KoC2 Divine Might III; KoC3 Improved Restoration I, II
KoC3 Improved Restoration III; (Bank 3 AP)
KoC0 Improved Courage of Heaven; KoC5 Avenging Cleave I, II, III; KoC5 Holy Retribution I, II, III
KoC5 Sealed Life; Orc2 Orcish Weapon Training
Orc3 Greater Dragonmark of Finding; SD1 Durable Defense I; SD0 Sacred Defense
KoC5 Censure Outsiders; SD1 Durable Defense II, III; SD2 Bulwark Aura I
SD2 Bulwark Aura II; SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II, III
SD3 Resistance Aura I, II; SD2 Bulwark Aura III; SD3 Resistance Aura III
KoC0 Slayer of Evil III; SD0 Divine Righteousness; SD2 Resilient Defense I, II
SD4 Swift Defense; Orc3 Orcish Weapon Training; Orc1 Tharashk Dragonmark Focus II
KoC0 Champion of Good; Orc4 Orcish Weapon Training; Orc4 Brutality


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Critical Damage I
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)

EDIT: reposted with latest version of builder.

What do you seek? Moar shinies, obviously!

If you don't have a +2 INT tome, drop the extra pts from Heal. Listed Twists are a long-term wishlist, not anything I expect you to have right away. Cleave feat is just to unlock Momentum Swing in Dreadnought, hence why it's so backloaded. EDIT: when not in LD, I would take Emp Heal instead. Specced for greataxes, but can use falchions or eSOS just as well.