20 seconds duration of enhancements is meaningless

[MagicBlue]

I understand that the game mechanics are going far from the original spirit of the d20 system on wish DDO is based.
But "20 seconds" is something totally our of context.

Why the duration of most enhancements (action boost for first) is not based on the "round" and "turn" as spells do?

i.e. the spell haste lasts 1 round /caster level: it means 6 seconds/caster level
buff spells normally last 1 turn (10 rounds) / caster level: it means 1 minute /caster level

Enhancements should follow a duration rule based on rounds and level of the class the enhancement belongs to.

20 seconds is meaningless.

[janave]

I understand that the game mechanics are going far from the original spirit of the d20 system on wish DDO is based.
But "20 seconds" is something totally our of context.

Why the duration of most enhancements (action boost for first) is not based on the "round" and "turn" as spells do?

i.e. the spell haste lasts 1 round /caster level: it means 6 seconds/caster level
buff spells normally last 1 turn (10 rounds) / caster level: it means 1 minute /caster level

Enhancements should follow a duration rule based on rounds and level of the class the enhancement belongs to.

20 seconds is meaningless.

I agree that they should scale, (or be flat buffed for being a high level full bab character.)
I actually suggested to buff them before, but either went unnoticed or just been ignored as a possibility.

They eventually went with having more clicks.

What is really bothersome is many of these boosts are exclusive, and you have to choose between them even if it makes absolutely no sense. Actually one good step to get melee in line with caster types would be doing away with boost exclusiveness.

Getting 1minute/click on a pure Fighter, that alone would be good reason to stay with the class, add in multi boosts, and you just made them viable with little to no effort. Well, as far ass offense goes.


Would love to hear a Developer why do i have to choose between haste boost, or one cut? Getting me half a [W] would overpower me? Would i rid the casters from the happiness of aoe instakills? While grinding down 10k hps with +5-6 dmg per hit more at a time?

Hmm? Devs?

[Miow]

1 second per character level sounds good, so say 12 seconds at level 12 and 28 seconds at 28 etc...

[Zirun]

1 second per character level sounds good, so say 12 seconds at level 12 and 28 seconds at 28 etc...

It needs a flat base amount, otherwise it's useless at low levels.

So, say, 15 seconds + 1 second per character level.

[psteen1]

It's fine the way it is. A 20 second boost is more than enough time to cut down a whole pack of trash or do serious damage to a boss. (in regards to haste boosts, doublestrike boosts, damage boosts, etc). Maybe sprint boosts could be a little longer, but this is a minor issue.

[Varinon]

I understand that the game mechanics are going far from the original spirit of the d20 system on wish DDO is based.
But "20 seconds" is something totally our of context.

Why the duration of most enhancements (action boost for first) is not based on the "round" and "turn" as spells do?

i.e. the spell haste lasts 1 round /caster level: it means 6 seconds/caster level
buff spells normally last 1 turn (10 rounds) / caster level: it means 1 minute /caster level

Enhancements should follow a duration rule based on rounds and level of the class the enhancement belongs to.

20 seconds is meaningless.

1) Round and Turn in D&D are synonymous. Neverwinter Nights is the game series that came up with the idea that a round is 6 seconds and a turn is 10 rounds (though round/turns in D&D /ARE/ 6 seconds!). If this changed in 4.0, I wouldn't know. Didn't play it.

2) If we tied everything to rounds, your haste should last 1 second/level and a haste boost therefore lasts 20 rounds. This is because a 'round' in D&D is 6 seconds game time, but the same actions that take a round in D&D can occur in one second in DDO. A good basis for this is rolling a caster. You can only cast one spell per round while not quickened (and quicken doesn't actually let you cast more spells in a given time as a sorcerer, who are more limited by global cooldown), global cooldown is 1 second. Therefore 1 round = 1 second. Action boosts last 20 rounds and buffs last much too long.

Edit: Not that I'm completely opposed to buffing action boosts (though they don't really need them--the purpose of the 20s duration is their 30s cooldown. They have a 2/3rds up-time. If you made them last 40s, their cooldown would be 60s), just, the reasoning you presented for them wasn't very sound.

[hp1055cm]

20 seconds is far from useless on haste boost or damage boost; but yeah it would be nice if they scaled with level so they lasted longer in higher/epic levels. With 20 seconds at least you don't have to "time it just right" when you are moving around in combat like some other clickies.

[Powskier]

i been dumping any 20 second boosts from my list ....just dam boost is stil there on 1 or 2.Skill bost on thf ,but really ,you r lucky to get two traps in 20 seconds ,if you need to search also.

[Chai]

And how many attacks do you get in a round, compared to the D&D P&P counterpart of your character?

If DDO followed that, melee would be un-save-able.

[Forzah]

I find it too much of a nuisance to use action boosts and tend to forget to use them, except on the longer fights.

[FranOhmsford]

1) Round and Turn in D&D are synonymous. Neverwinter Nights is the game series that came up with the idea that a round is 6 seconds and a turn is 10 rounds (though round/turns in D&D /ARE/ 6 seconds!). If this changed in 4.0, I wouldn't know. Didn't play it.

Round and Turn are most definitely NOT synonymous in D&D!

As far back as 2nd Ed. a Turn was 1 minute!

There were 10 rounds to a Turn - and guess what 1/10th of 1 minute is...Yep...That's right...It's 6 Seconds!

There were spells in the base Player's Handbook in the early 1990s that had Casting Times in Turns as well as spells that had casting times in rounds, spells that had casting times in hours and those that had casting times in initiative!


Back in 1st Ed. I believe a round was actually 1 minute and a Turn 10 minutes - Yet again 1 Turn = 10 Rounds! This got changed early in 2nd Ed. to the rules we still use today!

[nokowi]

I understand that the game mechanics are going far from the original spirit of the d20 system on wish DDO is based.
But "20 seconds" is something totally our of context.

Why the duration of most enhancements (action boost for first) is not based on the "round" and "turn" as spells do?

i.e. the spell haste lasts 1 round /caster level: it means 6 seconds/caster level
buff spells normally last 1 turn (10 rounds) / caster level: it means 1 minute /caster level

Enhancements should follow a duration rule based on rounds and level of the class the enhancement belongs to.

20 seconds is meaningless.

To me the real issue is the delay in attack when I use a combat clicky. If there is a 2 second delay, a 30% damage boost for 20 seconds is really only a 20% boost in damage. With a 2 second delay, a 10% boost for 20 seconds would actually be 0 extra damage.

There are ways to get these 20 second timer uses to regenerate, so I don't see the short duration as an issue.

[Varinon]

Round and Turn are most definitely NOT synonymous in D&D!

As far back as 2nd Ed. a Turn was 1 minute!

There were 10 rounds to a Turn - and guess what 1/10th of 1 minute is...Yep...That's right...It's 6 Seconds!

There were spells in the base Player's Handbook in the early 1990s that had Casting Times in Turns as well as spells that had casting times in rounds, spells that had casting times in hours and those that had casting times in initiative!


Back in 1st Ed. I believe a round was actually 1 minute and a Turn 10 minutes - Yet again 1 Turn = 10 Rounds! This got changed early in 2nd Ed. to the rules we still use today!

Well, at least in 3.0 and 3.5 they're synonymous. Forgive me for not knowing earlier versions, 3.0's the earliest I've played.

In 3.0 and 3.5, however, the concept of a 'turn' does not exist. Compare this: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:How_Combat_Works

with spells that would last '1 turn' such as Speak With Animals and you can see it clearly says '1 minute' not '1 turn'.

So, sorry if it was different in earlier editions, but 3rd edition (which DDO is based off) does not have turns.

[droid327]

The O in DDO stands for Online. Its not "D&D played remotely via the Internet".

Its D&D, converted to an MMO. That means that some elements expressed one way as PnP rules are going to be translated to MMO rules and conventions. Translated, not transliterated. I get tired of all the "make this work exactly like it does in 3.5, even if that makes no sense within the context of an MMO!".

Linear d20 rolls arent flexible and granular enough compared to logarithmic percentages. You cant roll a CE character and backstab your party mid-quest. And you wont ever get Fly added to your spellbook.

[ddorimble]

I don't really see any relevance in translating PnP timescale to DDO.

In general, I feel like the 20 seconds is a nice little turbo boost, enough to give me that little edge when I want it. I could really go for less activation delay though. I'd like to be able to pound them while attacking and not see even the slightest interruption.

I really have to laugh at the 6 second ones. Poor Tempests. I mean, yes, it's powerful...but 6s...hahahaha...

That being said, I think it's a nice suggestion for Fighter or some Action Boost oriented class/race thing to bump boosts to 30 seconds (or +50%, so it's a little flexible).

[Wh070aa]

Yea, 20 seconds is way to short. I would like them lasting about a minute or so (maybe 20+class/character level?) that would be about 50 seconds at 30 level.

Only thing I really use is the sprint and haste boosts, and only because I have nothing else to do while fighting/shooting.

Would be nice if you could actually have some use from your buffs, instead of killing like 4 mobs and running out.(I know my build sucks).

[Seikojin]

I think 20 second action boosts are just right. They last long enough to do their thing, but not long enough to be a reliance.

[Krell]

I would like to see some scaling as well. I usually avoid (or forget) clicky skills with short durations.

[Avenging_Angel]

If there is a 2 second delay, a 30% damage boost for 20 seconds is really only a 20% boost in damage. With a 2 second delay, a 10% boost for 20 seconds would actually be 0 extra damage.

What? That's not how math works!

[EllisDee37]

20 seconds is pretty darn long, especially if you think of a kensei in LD who probably has around 12 action boosts per rest and doesn't have to wait 10 seconds between uses. That's 4 full minutes of action boost, uninterrupted, per shrine.

Though I could get on board for some minimal scaling for epics:

20 seconds + 1 second per epic level (defined as starting at level 21)