Tangleroot Redundancy

[arconalos]

After running Tangleroot from Normal to Elite I have to say that I'm gonna wait to run that one again on any of my other toons for sometime. All the quests are the same basic area and it sucks! ALOT!

Are there any others like this?

[Esserbe]

It's a thematic choice, since your group of adventurers keep draining the hobgoblin forces and pushing them further into the fortress. I think it's a fun quest line.

[DarkAlchemist]

It's a thematic choice, since your group of adventurers keep draining the hobgoblin forces and pushing them further into the fortress. I think it's a fun quest line.

So do I and I run it on every character I make or TR.

[cdr]

After running Tangleroot from Normal to Elite I have to say that I'm gonna wait to run that one again on any of my other toons for sometime. All the quests are the same basic area and it sucks! ALOT!

Are there any others like this?

Several of the original / ancient quest chains are like that. Three-Barrel Cove is probably the worst offender; it makes you run through most of the quests twice with almost no changes.

Threnal is pretty guilty too, but less mind-numbing than 3BC.

[Quetzacoala]

Here is how Tangleroot came to be...

Boss: "Okay folks, here is the plan... we realized that these players will buy just about anything, so we are just going to make a chain that involves running two dungeons over and over again."

Employee: "Boss, why would players purchase this pack if it is going to be so low quality?"

Boss: "Let's throw some nice named items into the end reward list, that will draw them in!"

Employee: "I guess... how will our loyal customers ever forgive us though?"

Boss: "If they are willing to run up and down dozens of flights of stairs for an Archbishop only to discover that he is evil, and receive a lousy end reward as well, then they would be willing to do this for a great end reward."

[Hambo]

Here is how Tangleroot came to be...

Boss: "Okay folks, here is the plan... we realized that these players will buy just about anything, so we are just going to make a chain that involves running two dungeons over and over again."

Employee: "Boss, why would players purchase this pack if it is going to be so low quality?"

Boss: "Let's throw some nice named items into the end reward list, that will draw them in!"

Employee: "I guess... how will our loyal customers ever forgive us though?"

Boss: "If they are willing to run up and down dozens of flights of stairs for an Archbishop only to discover that he is evil, and receive a lousy end reward as well, then they would be willing to do this for a great end reward."

Heh.

All the quests mentioned in this thread were ancient before newbies could "buy" packs, and were once the fast track to hitting the level cap... at 10!

[AZgreentea]

To me it dosent seem like the Tangleroot quests were really meant to be run one after another. Granted, that is the easiest way, especially with a PUG.

However, looking at the objective and quest levels, I dont think they were meant to be a continuous series. The first two could be one after another, but then you get to the war plans and then he breeds a spider army a short time later? Where was that spider a short time ago when you were in there?

[arconalos]

Gotta agree that Catacombs is alot alike as well, not nearly as bad as Tangleroot but bad.

I had to run this for the Rune Arm and also the House P favor. Knowing that 3BC is as bad I'm not sure it will be worth it.

le sigh

[Rumbaar]

It's a thematic choice, since your group of adventurers keep draining the hobgoblin forces and pushing them further into the fortress. I think it's a fun quest line.

How come I have to fight through the same forces each time then?

[Lithic]

How come I have to fight through the same forces each time then?

Because the hobgoblins aren't stupid and they refortify their front defenses after you leave between quests.

[Beethoven]

How come I have to fight through the same forces each time then?

You don't. What needs to be kept in mind is that Turbine opted against making wilderness areas vast and traveling actually feel like travel (ie: it taking 30+minutes to run from quest giver to quest entrance).

So, the reason these quests don't feel like they make a lot of sense is mostly because Ungurz stands ten feet from the Splinterskull fortress, which makes it odd that the hobgoblins manage to regroup that quickly. Now, you'd assume you are gone for about an hour (in between exiting the quest, talking to Ungurz and returning to Splinterskull fortress) the whole story makes a bit more sense.

You keep raiding their fortress, pushing inside ever deeper. Meanwhile the hobgoblins send more and more (and more dangerous) reinforcements from inside the fortress and if you look at the mobs you end up fighting they are different with every quest and become tougher as the level of the quests increase.

[Rumbaar]

..and those two same spiders I fight each time I run in, they are from extra hobgoblin forces

and I have to find that key again ... didn't I just have it?!

[Lithic]

..and those two same spiders I fight each time I run in, they are from extra hobgoblin forces

and I have to find that key again ... didn't I just have it?!

You only find the key in pt 5, and then the door lock is broken in pt 6-7 so you don't need the key after.

You may be thinking of the first portcullis which gets reclosed by the hobgoblins when they repopulate the two lever rooms, which makes sense.

There's also a spider nest to the right to repopulate the first spiders

[EllisDee37]

Knowing that 3BC is as bad I'm not sure it will be worth it.

Three-barrel cove isn't even remotely the same. It has seven unique quests, all with different flavors. Two of those seven quests obnoxiously require you to run back out and run the same dungeon a second time with a different name. All told, this makes nine quests in your quest log. The other five quest are single-part quests with zero repetition. This poor pack has enough problems without people spreading misinformation.

Sorrowdusk is a half-tangleroot. There are 10 quests in 5 dungeons, so you repeat each dungeon twice. Unlike Tangleroot, there is a lot of running involved to turn in and get back to each repeated dungeon. The two repeats in 3BC also have this problem.

[Vengeance777]

I actually like Tangleroot. A couple of the quests are the best xp per minute at the level. A lot of TRs run through a few of the quests several times.

Most players run this way over level and the whole chain straight through. This chain was not made to be run this way originally. The CR of the quests goes up with each quest, your meant to run the quests of the appropriate level then go elsewhere for a bit till you reach the level of the next quest in chain.

So it makes sense for the Hobgoblins to be higher CR and to have restocked their defenses each time you go back in. And going deeper and deeper into the fortress each time is kind of fun.

This is a classic part of a lot of older pen and paper modules and super dungeons. Raid the first floor of a dungeon go back to town rest up repair, level up, sell etc... A week passes you head back first floor has restocked with some enemies, You tear through them since you are higher level then descend deeper into the dungeon.


There's a few other quests that do this and do it better. Invader's for example does this quite well. Taking the waterworks wilderness you play through at level 4 and having it be overrun as part of the Xoriat invasion at level 11.

[Cardtrick]

I love Tangleroot, but I can't explain why. It's super-repetitive, but something about the pacing keeps it from being boring to me. I run it on every character. I mostly just zerg it straight through these days (I do detour slightly to grab collectables -- I usually make about 200,000 plat from selling collectables from a full Tangleroot run (repeating the invis-run portions a few times).

But it's also great to take slower and explore. I like the little touches like the captive in the pit who gets stung by a scorpion and is then a progressively more decayed undead the next couple of times you see him. Discovering and getting slaughtered by the earth elementals in the underwater cave is one of my fondest newbie-DDO memories. Tangleroot will always have a nostalgic place in my heart.

[arconalos]

Well knowing that 3BC is only running wilderness helps ease my feelings.

The story with Tangleroot is good its just the repetitiveness, would be great if they threw in a couple more named mobs, maybe rare spawns and random traps, give it a better feel of being 'fortified'.

Unfortunately Sorrowdusk was going to be my next chain when I have time.

I guess wash, rinse, repeat is the name of the game at times.

[Zorth]

Make it Epic. The Bracers of Dexterity for example are useless in the game Unless they were made Epic.

Make them Dex plus 8 for Epic and make the Goggles of Deathward last 20 minutes Epic.,etc.

So many cool quest items in the pack.

It would be the ultimate Epic quest btw. You would have to be at your best for it.

Getting past the explorer on Epic would be easy since you can Teleport to the quest. It pretty much is set.

[qoolboxer]

Here is how Tangleroot came to be...

Boss: "Okay folks, here is the plan... we realized that these players will buy just about anything, so we are just going to make a chain that involves running two dungeons over and over again."

Employee: "Boss, why would players purchase this pack if it is going to be so low quality?"

Boss: "Let's throw some nice named items into the end reward list, that will draw them in!"

Employee: "I guess... how will our loyal customers ever forgive us though?"

Boss: "If they are willing to run up and down dozens of flights of stairs for an Archbishop only to discover that he is evil, and receive a lousy end reward as well, then they would be willing to do this for a great end reward."

Maybe that was what happened with Update 12. The Challenge Pack at 1495TP is the most expensive pack with just 4 dungeons, using nice loot as redeeming factor. Nothing else beats this pack for super-repetitive grinds.

But the whole DDO game is thriving on repetition, hamsters on wheels, so Tangleroot isn't as bad as the other repetitive stuff you are already doing in game. I think Sorrowdusk with all the running around in the wilderness is less enjoyable.

[DarkAlchemist]

Maybe that was what happened with Update 12. The Challenge Pack at 1495TP is the most expensive pack with just 4 dungeons, using nice loot as redeeming factor. Nothing else beats this pack for super-repetitive grinds.

But the whole DDO game is thriving on repetition, hamsters on wheels, so Tangleroot isn't as bad as the other repetitive stuff you are already doing in game. I think Sorrowdusk with all the running around in the wilderness is less enjoyable.

LOL I actually love Sorrowdusk and run it for the S/R/E and the quests are nice favor and xp too. Not uber but nice.