Alchemist?

[BigErkyKid]

This is all still pretty accurate. Also, you're going to be happy.


Thiiiiis one's more of a stretch goal in some regards, less than 100% of their spells involve throwing & even if we don't get things like rolling, we hope to make some adjustments to admixture throwing speed, arc, etc.

Can you please make us happy fixing the old toys too, instead of releasing a new toy?

[Requiro]

Can you please make us happy fixing the old toys too, instead of releasing a new toy?

Old toys do not gather revenue so quickly (if any) as the new toys.

[BigErkyKid]

Old toys do not gather revenue so quickly (if any) as the new toys.

Is this game called Revenue Maximizer Online? I am getting a bit tired of people bringing up ''but dollars'' to every balance discussion. It's not that I don't think there might be something to it, but this shouldn't be a concern for players.

[Lynnabel]

Can you please make us happy fixing the old toys too, instead of releasing a new toy?

Were all of the destinies a month ago not enough for you? :P

All joking around aside, I'm pretty excited for the class. Not counting the sub-spells they're closing in on 100 different preparable spells and it's a little intense. I think you folks are really going to like them.

[Cantor]

Eh? Sharn and tiefling have been out for several months, mate. Alchemist is slotted for sometime later this year.

he means when can he buy it with favor instead of money.

[HastyPudding]

Were all of the destinies a month ago not enough for you? :P

All joking around aside, I'm pretty excited for the class. Not counting the sub-spells they're closing in on 100 different preparable spells and it's a little intense. I think you folks are really going to like them.

I was skeptical about it, at first. There were several classes that I think (and still think) would be a better fit to add to DDO, like Hexblade or Shaman that don't step on the toes of another class (no, shamans and druids aren't the same thing, debate me!). However, since that interview you guys did where you laid out the basics of what you had planned for alchemist, I have become increasingly excited. Would I like some other classes? Absolutely. But, I'm behind alchemist, now, and excited to see what this whole mixture/reaction/combo system you have is with their spells.

[Tlorrd]

Will you fix or update rogue mechanic alchemical traps while you're doing alchemist update? Seems like there'd be some crossover.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Were all of the destinies a month ago not enough for you? :P

All joking around aside, I'm pretty excited for the class. Not counting the sub-spells they're closing in on 100 different preparable spells and it's a little intense. I think you folks are really going to like them.

100 new spells, aye?

will any of these new arcane spells also be available to the arcane class that's supposed to get all arcane spells? ie, wizard?

[BigErkyKid]

Were all of the destinies a month ago not enough for you? :P

All joking around aside, I'm pretty excited for the class. Not counting the sub-spells they're closing in on 100 different preparable spells and it's a little intense. I think you folks are really going to like them.

What do you think? Do you think balance is good nowadays?

Several destinies remain very weak and hardly ever played, as does THF, together with a lot of classes that had been updated originally. Oh! Qstaff builds are not a thing even with that small buff. I could go on, shall I? Should we remember the random loot update, that was supposed to bring it back to healthy levels for a long time?

Honestly, I'd rather have those fixed than introducing yet another toy, specially when that toy is as complex as you say. This means that you guys probably devoted plenty more dev hours to it than say to fix destinies, classes, and styles. Options that deserve attention because there are players that love them and yet you decided to abandon them to become second or third tier in order to release that new toy.

[Requiro]

Is this game called Revenue Maximizer Online? I am getting a bit tired of people bringing up ''but dollars'' to every balance discussion. It's not that I don't think there might be something to it, but this shouldn't be a concern for players.

In my previous post I was a bit sarcastic.

IMO: They are very good at correcting old things. ED Changes, Tree Improvements, Old Loot Conversions, User Interface Improvements, Class Improvements ... Almost every update, Devs improves some old things. I'm not complaining.

[droid327]

Were all of the destinies a month ago not enough for you? :P

All joking around aside, I'm pretty excited for the class. Not counting the sub-spells they're closing in on 100 different preparable spells and it's a little intense. I think you folks are really going to like them.

I'm starting to worry a bit now, actually. With all the talk about how versatile they're going to be - with "Apothecary" suggesting some healing abilities, with talk about AOE DPS spells, with Profane Experiment suggesting they're an INT class that can use Harper...I'm concerned that an Inqui Alch will be hugely OP. Inqui already provides top-notch single-target and line-AOE damage, while Alch will provide zone-AOE nukes (the main thing Inquis *cant* do well damage-wise), healing, likely buffs and debuffs as well. Basically you can buff up, chuck grenades to cause massive damage or CC to packs and adds, and then clean up with your dual MAC-10s. I worry its pairing a do-everything casting class with a OSFA ranged DPS tree.

People already complain somewhat that Inqui is bringing guns to a knife fight, and Alch might bring hand grenades too.

[Cordovan]

We're getting closer to being in a place where we start listing out some of the alchemist class details on the public forums here, but we're just not there yet.

[HastyPudding]

What do you think? Do you think balance is good nowadays?

Several destinies remain very weak and hardly ever played, as does THF, together with a lot of classes that had been updated originally. Oh! Qstaff builds are not a thing even with that small buff. I could go on, shall I? Should we remember the random loot update, that was supposed to bring it back to healthy levels for a long time?

Honestly, I'd rather have those fixed than introducing yet another toy, specially when that toy is as complex as you say. This means that you guys probably devoted plenty more dev hours to it than say to fix destinies, classes, and styles. Options that deserve attention because there are players that love them and yet you decided to abandon them to become second or third tier in order to release that new toy.

You have to balance new things and content with revamping old content. Some things are easier to fix than others.

I'm starting to worry a bit now, actually. With all the talk about how versatile they're going to be - with "Apothecary" suggesting some healing abilities, with talk about AOE DPS spells, with Profane Experiment suggesting they're an INT class that can use Harper...I'm concerned that an Inqui Alch will be hugely OP. Inqui already provides top-notch single-target and line-AOE damage, while Alch will provide zone-AOE nukes (the main thing Inquis *cant* do well damage-wise), healing, likely buffs and debuffs as well. Basically you can buff up, chuck grenades to cause massive damage or CC to packs and adds, and then clean up with your dual MAC-10s. I worry its pairing a do-everything casting class with a OSFA ranged DPS tree.

People already complain somewhat that Inqui is bringing guns to a knife fight, and Alch might bring hand grenades too.

With that logic, a warforged wizard/inquisitive would by broken OP. They're not.

Alchemist is a spellcasting-based class, so all of those aoe's, grenades, etc are going to require DC's, and anyone who has ever made a spellcaster in DDO knows you have to superfocus on DC's to be useful. Multitasking spell DC's/spellpower/metamagics with damage/attack/diplomacy/ranged feats while still fitting in survivability is going to make the build a hybrid. Hybrids don't do well in higher levels of difficulty in DDO.

[BigErkyKid]

You have to balance new things and content with revamping old content. Some things are easier to fix than others.
.

New content doesn't need to be new classes. If you have plenty of issues with balance, bringing a completely new game system (alchemist spell casting will be unique) is a slap to the face of the people who liked the old classes that are currently UP.

We all know that to do well in DDO you gotta play the latest meta release, but it doesn't make it right.

This is a DnD game, there should be some love for all classes, many of us are here for old times´sake...

[droid327]

With that logic, a warforged wizard/inquisitive would by broken OP. They're not.

Alchemist is a spellcasting-based class, so all of those aoe's, grenades, etc are going to require DC's, and anyone who has ever made a spellcaster in DDO knows you have to superfocus on DC's to be useful. Multitasking spell DC's/spellpower/metamagics with damage/attack/diplomacy/ranged feats while still fitting in survivability is going to make the build a hybrid. Hybrids don't do well in higher levels of difficulty in DDO.

Normally I'd agree with you, because casters are limited by A) spell slots, which makes you choose which functions you want to have, and B) element/school specialization, which limits you to one subset of offensive spells to have useful DCs and spellpowers.

But I dont see how that paradigm can be compatible with Alchemist and the stated design goal of 100+ on-the-fly spell combinations. If the whole point is that you can mix-and-match what you need as you need it, then I dont see how you can still follow the same limitation design philosophy as other casters. Sure, I expect that AP will be a limitation and some spells wont be nearly as effective without Enhancement support...but I dont think you'll be necessarily forced into choosing between, say, Transmutation or Evocation, like a wiz is. I expect it'll be more like Monk combo attacks. That's what my main worry is - they wont be a hybrid class per se, and subject to the usual hybrid drawbacks...they'll be a lot closer to a fully ranged build with a full caster build, because both could plausibly be operating on completely separate opportunity cost channels.

Also - the fact they get sneak die (again, from Profane Experiment) and use Darts natively makes it likely they'll be a 0.75 BAB class, which means they'll have access to better martial feats than a pure caster Inq right now.

And...Zombie Inqui *is* pretty OP right now If it wasnt for not being able to take IPS until 21 (or 18 with a /2 rogue splash), it'd be the clear single BIS meta for Heroic.

[Darckengel]

We all know that to do well in DDO you gotta play the latest meta release, but it doesn't make it right.

I've been playing for a long time and I don't post often. I have to say that whatever the "do well" part you're talking about is highly subjective. I've been able to clear every piece of content (for the most part) by using all sorts of dumb builds. You don't have to be meta to do well, but if you want to push the limits you have to play meta.

It's all subjective. I only play MMOs for fun these days, I am not super interested in min-maxing. Although I realize that is the fun part for some people, and that's why the meta exists. I think at some point, players who have been around for a while have been getting further and further away from the actual substance of gameplay that DDO offers. They delve further and further into complexity to satiate their need for a meaningful experience when a meaningful experience is just enjoying the game. Again, enjoyment is also subjective. However, they've said before that most of the players who play DDO aren't the "hardcore/meta" type.

[Steelstar]

Also - the fact they get sneak die (again, from Profane Experiment)

In the current version, they don't get sneak dice.

A gigantic amount of the design can change / will change / has already changed / will continue to change, so I wouldn't necessarily take things that've been said about the class as gospel until we're ready to show it publicly.

[BigErkyKid]

I've been playing for a long time and I don't post often. I have to say that whatever the "do well" part you're talking about is highly subjective. I've been able to clear every piece of content (for the most part) by using all sorts of dumb builds. You don't have to be meta to do well, but if you want to push the limits you have to play meta.

It's all subjective. I only play MMOs for fun these days, I am not super interested in min-maxing. Although I realize that is the fun part for some people, and that's why the meta exists. I think at some point, players who have been around for a while have been getting further and further away from the actual substance of gameplay that DDO offers. They delve further and further into complexity to satiate their need for a meaningful experience when a meaningful experience is just enjoying the game. Again, enjoyment is also subjective. However, they've said before that most of the players who play DDO aren't the "hardcore/meta" type.

Really? Because I run into meta builds all the time when I play.

For me, most of the fun is in building, and it gets mad annoying when you see that many of the existing options in the game are not actually supported. Sometimes it is outdated gear options, other times bad scaling, and often just being far from the last time they were meta.

When you have some many outdated options currently in the game, it seems weird to choose to create a whole new system. What happened to melee ES warlocks, I guess we now have to play melee Alchemist whatevers?

[HastyPudding]

In the current version, they don't get sneak dice.

A gigantic amount of the design can change / will change / has already changed / will continue to change, so I wouldn't necessarily take things that've been said about the class as gospel until we're ready to show it publicly.

I can accept that. But, it's nice to get tidbits on the general direction things are going. I'm still excited!

[Thrudh]

What do you think? Do you think balance is good nowadays?

Several destinies remain very weak and hardly ever played, as does THF, together with a lot of classes that had been updated originally. Oh! Qstaff builds are not a thing even with that small buff. I could go on, shall I? Should we remember the random loot update, that was supposed to bring it back to healthy levels for a long time?

One of my main guys is a THF build. He does great at end-game in mid-level reaper (R5-7).

He just switched from Legendary Dreadnaught to Fury of the Wild and I'm enjoying that a lot. I love the auto-knockdown of Adrenaline and I love the 19-20 vorpal range now (so I can recharge Adrenaline as fast as TWF now).

I see all kinds of builds when I join groups... It's not just me with my THF and 5 Inquisitive crossbow guys in every group.

Honestly, I'd rather have those fixed than introducing yet another toy, specially when that toy is as complex as you say. This means that you guys probably devoted plenty more dev hours to it than say to fix destinies, classes, and styles.

They DID just spend some time working on destinies, classes, and styles. Seriously...