Thoughts on a Ravenloft Expansion

[Vish]

My thoughts are

6 quests, 1 raid
New class psionicist
New races tiefling, asimar
Explorer area
Legacy weapons aka sentient

And
This can be tied to clerics pass
And have update to turning system

Also this would coincide with movie?
Maybe movie needs main hero to be the cleric
Right, the one who Rezzes everybody?

Anyways, my dream

Oh ya,
Don't forget new patron tree
Monster hunter
With wisdom TO HIT and damage
More cleric love

Maybe call it return of the clerics

[tapster]

Feeling nostalgic for 'Feast of Goblyns'...

(And some proper Greater Wolfwere and Loup Garou)

[Chimmy]

My thoughts are... Clerics, clerics, clerics, clerics...

tiefling

Wait, I take it back, yes to everything he just said if it includes tieflings.

[KoobTheProud]

It would be nice to see some random adventures in the Ravenloft expansion. The concept of randomly appearing instances with random content based on the Gothic horror setting of Ravenloft is already built into the D&D Ravenloft theme. Darklords are inherently unpredictable in terms of how they will present their challenges.

If the expansion is a completely fixed expansion, as previous expansions have been, it will not do a lot to extend the appeal of the game.

Creating an open encounter system where unpredictability rules the day will do more to break metagaming and it's stranglehold on DDO than anything else could.

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

Throwing my two cp in on this. From my lofty perch I have a hard time seeing Ravenloft expanding the current player base beyond a small blip that comes with an expansion. The setting while liked extremely well by a group of players does not have the broad appeal that Forgotten Realms did when MOTU launched. That I feel suggests this expansion is all about keeping the current long term players here.

Ravenloft could bring many needed changes to the game by providing the needed revenue to SSG and that's a good thing. What's more important is what comes next.

That's not just my opinion, several prognosticators have made similar suggestions.

To me that means keeping the size of the expansion in check and smaller. $29.99 or maybe just maybe $39.99 is about as high as I would go right with my investment towards a new expansion. I'll write the check for that amount right now for all of my accounts sight unseen. If SSG wants 49.99 or 75 or some other high amount I am going to need convincing to even buy the expansion for one account.

[shores11]

I agree Ravenloft is an awesome world and probably my second favorite after Forgotten Realms. I hope that Lord Seth makes into Ravenloft as well.

That all being said I would love to see Forgotten Realms one day filled out to be complete from level 1 through 30.

[changelingamuck]

I hope that Lord Seth makes into Ravenloft as well

Lord Soth was removed from the Ravenloft setting due to the objections of his creator Dragonlance's Tracy Hickman. So, I really don't think that'll happen.

He wanted Soth in the Dragonlance setting.

[GoldyGopher]

Lord Soth was removed from the Ravenloft setting due to the objections of his creator Dragonlance's Tracy Hickman. So, I really don't think that'll happen.

He wanted Soth in the Dragonlance setting.

That statement is not entirely true. I have no doubt that Tracy Hickman who was responsible for Lord South creation was a bit dismayed that Lord Soth was sent to the mists of Ravenloft, however the character is 100% owned by TSR/WotC/Hasbro. WotC/Hasbro can do whatever they want with the character.
Dragonlance was one of the few settings entirely created by a Corperation, Tracy, Margeret and the entire team were specifically tasked with creating them. Most campaign settings are purchased.

[changelingamuck]

That statement is not entirely true. I have no doubt that Tracy Hickman who was responsible for Lord South creation was a bit dismayed that Lord Soth was sent to the mists of Ravenloft, however the character is 100% owned by TSR/WotC/Hasbro. WotC/Hasbro can do whatever they want with the character.
Dragonlance was one of the few settings entirely created by a Corperation, Tracy, Margeret and the entire team were specifically tasked with creating them. Most campaign settings are purchased.

I think that's splitting hairs a little overly much, but okay.

Regardless, Hickman wanted Soth back in Dragonlance. He was allowed to have Soth back in Dragonlance. So, I wouldn't expect to see him in DDO's Ravenloft.

[theboyftw]

speaking of Dragonlance....I'd rather see that as an expansion than Ravenloft.

[Holleyz]

https://youtu.be/KoMJ1hEs4lU

[Brandwynn]

- I want a bunch of new raid/dungeon specific crafting that will fill up my bag with junk that I throw out years later when it gets obsoleted by even newer raid/dungeon specific crafting.

- I want a bunch of dungeons that are just single corridors with large packs of 20+ mobs and the occasional boss fight and maybe one phoned in puzzle.

- Please have a really annoying graphic effect that makes it impossible to see what you're doing. Maybe have the entire world occasionally turn yellow?

- I want some ML 29 loot that I'll never actually use because there's no substantial end game content. So it'll just sit in my bags except for the 2 hours it takes me to hit 30 and TR again.

- Make sure there's an explorer area that's needlessly tedious to get through with extremely sparse mob population with 2 missing rares that 3 years later still don't get added to the game

- Be sure to not QA the experience values for the quests at all. It should take 40+ minutes to complete some of them but only grant 23k xp on completion.

- Throw in some basic grammar/spelling mistakes just for kicks and grins. Those are always a treat.

- Don't forget one quest to have a ton of kobolds because we aren't sick of those yet.

- Some new challenge missions for rewards that were bad 2 years before they were released that don't reset their XP values like normal quest ransack making them only worth doing once per TR would be nice

- Give me a ton of new BoA items that I can force into my TR cache. That thing isn't big enough yet.

- Put spell wards everywhere! No, we don't want new or interesting traps, you know, that thing that is unique to DDO and adds greatly to its charm. Naaaw. I want more glowing red and green runes because those are fun!

There we go.

You forgot, We like the abuse and will complain all the louder. If the Devs even think about changing anything at all for the better. This is why we can't have nice things.

[kmoustakas]

I don't think Ravenloft should be an expansion really. More like an adventure pack with a wilderness, quests and a raid.

Instead of an actual expansion, updating some old quests would be really something. I don't think catacombs needs anything or threnal for that matter though... let's update the embarrasment that is legendary tempest spine, legendary hox and add legendary vod and tod while updating their heroic loot for today's game.

[shores11]

I don't think Ravenloft should be an expansion really. More like an adventure pack with a wilderness, quests and a raid.

Instead of an actual expansion, updating some old quests would be really something.

I disagree with you on both points.

1) Ravenloft is a D&D world and should be an expansion and it's own world but better introduced than Forgotten Realms was. I still don't understand why they think FR is acceptable only from level 14+ in a small village, jeez.

2) New content is always preferred over revamping old content. There is nothing wrong with leaving a level 4 or 5 quest as a level 4 or 5 quest.

[FranOhmsford]

New Human Iconic - Vistani?

[dunklezhan]

1) Ravenloft is a D&D world and should be an expansion

Can I ask an honest question: why does something being a D&D world mean it should be an expansion? Fundamentally the Realms is just another series of relatively small instances (some of those explorers are pretty darn big, of course, but that's the same in Eberron) as far as your game client is concerned. So what means it should be a expansion that VIPs have to pay for? As opposed to say a series of closely packed updates?

Full disclosure on that VIP thing: I'm no longer a VIP, and the existence of expansions was the exact reason why my long standing sub got cancelled. In other words: I'd be paying extra anyway. I'm just curious as to why you think it should be specifically an expansion just because its a new world. Perhaps I've missed a trick and need to reevaluate.

[GoldyGopher]

Can I ask an honest question: why does something being a D&D world mean it should be an expansion? Fundamentally the Realms is just another series of relatively small instances (some of those explorers are pretty darn big, of course, but that's the same in Eberron) as far as your game client is concerned. So what means it should be a expansion that VIPs have to pay for? As opposed to say a series of closely packed updates?

Full disclosure on that VIP thing: I'm no longer a VIP, and the existence of expansions was the exact reason why my long standing sub got cancelled. In other words: I'd be paying extra anyway. I'm just curious as to why you think it should be specifically an expansion just because its a new world. Perhaps I've missed a trick and need to reevaluate.

First I want to bring a comment to the forefront. I do not believe that Turbine provided enough incentive for players to chose VIP over Premium. I have long been a VIP simply because I spend $150 on a night out with my significant other so $100 for a years worth of entertainment is peanuts for me. However I totally understand the flip side of the coin and the people counting their change to decide if they can eat lunch on a typical Wednesday. Somewhere I read/heard that SSG is taking a serious look at the VIP benefits and determining if they can do better.

Moving on
From a business perspective I totally understand desire and some what of a need to have paid expansion that even subscribers pay for. I believe however that many companies have shortchanged their subscriber base with unsatisfactory / unfulfilling expansions and simply use paid expansions as a way to line their pockets.
Expansions that bring large system work, substantial content additions, new races/classes, amongst other things, that bring value to the amount of money spent on them are worth every penny. Expansions that don't well simply aren't.
In my opinion MotU is an expansion that was worth the money spent, SC wasn't. We can argue over the reasoning or even a difference of opinion on whether one or both was worth it. It would however be a difficult argument that SC was substantially better than MOTU and I have actually never seen anyone try and make that argument.

MOTU could have been a much better expansion if they would have changed [insert you desire here] and I totally get that. SC however ...

Paid Expansion are simply now how the industry works. They bring in cash upfront for the company who in turn are supposed to use that money to supplement their usual development budget to bring the expansion to live. Without that investment, with out the $40 to $80 up front fee it is difficult to justify bringing in X number of contract employees to add stuff to the game. For smaller companies it is even more important because it can affect their financing and lines of credit and ....

Creating new Realms (Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft) is a pretty easy way to define a paid expansion, as our other large wholesale like Argonnessen and Aerenal, but locations like Ever Ice and the Storm Horns are not.

Because Paid Expansions are a way of life I think it very important that the player base dictate to the developers what are expectations and what we are willing to pay.

[Aelonwy]

Also this would coincide with movie?
Maybe movie needs main hero to be the cleric
Right, the one who Rezzes everybody?

I'm wracking my brain for an example of a fantasy movie with a cleric hero/heroine as a central/main character and the only immediate examples I can come up with are a stretch at best and those are Lucy from the Chronicles of Narnia (she had a healing elixer and not healing powers), Miracle Max from Princess Bride (not exactly main) and E.T. (Scifi not fantasy). Unless I'm missing some pivotal role, I'm starting to realize cleric/fvs type heroes and heroines are given short shrift in films.

[FranOhmsford]

I'm wracking my brain for an example of a fantasy movie with a cleric hero/heroine as a central/main character and the only immediate examples I can come up with are a stretch at best and those are Lucy from the Chronicles of Narnia (she had a healing elixer and not healing powers), Miracle Max from Princess Bride (not exactly main) and E.T. (Scifi not fantasy). Unless I'm missing some pivotal role, I'm starting to realize cleric/fvs type heroes and heroines are given short shrift in films.

Yep and in the 3 D&D movies we've had 1 Cleric who was actually part of the main Group and he was a numpty who decided to try and turn a white dragon {or Dracolich - Still not sure which it was but sorry Dracoliches are NOT Turnable!}.

In the first movie we had Tom Baker's Elven Healer - Never specifically mentioned to be a Cleric and basically in one scene!
In the third movie we had an Evil Druid {I assume it was a Druid} Verminwhosit from the Book of Vile Darkness!

In 3 movies we've had...

3-4 Rogues and Ftr/Rogues
1 Ranger
3 Wizards {one of whom somehow found out how to cast Divine Spells without having a Deity give her that ability - Sorry I call Bull!}.
3 Barbarians {Yes I'm counting the Dwarf in the first film as a Barbarian}
1 Fighter {The Main Character in the second film}
1 Paladin {The Main Character in the third film}
1 Warlock {The love interest in the third film}
1 Verminwhosit Druid {The villain in the third film}
And 1 Numpty of an expendable redshirt Cleric who thought turning a Dragon was a good idea and got exactly what he deserved!



And it gets worse - Divines in total in the 3 D&D Movies:

A Paladin of Pelor main character who has NO Powers until he commits a blatantly Evil act {well actually multiple blatantly Evil acts!}.
An Evil Druid Villain
A Redshirt Cleric
And a Wizard who for no apparent reason can learn Divine Spells!

[dunklezhan]

some solid stuff, but not what I was getting at

So...first, sorry for abusing the use of the 'quote' function like that. But I agree with much of what you say, especially about MOTU vs SC, so there's little point filling the page up with it again.

Let me be perfectly clear: I have plenty of sympathy for those who won't be able to immediately afford the expansion. However that's not really different than them having to save and buy an update.

Its what a real-cash-only-update represents in terms of free vs premium vs vip. As a premium player who owns everything content wise like a freakin' magpie, I'll certainly be buying it. I'm not a VIP, so I'm not speaking for whether VIP is worth it to others whilst still paying extra for expansions - that's my bugbear and the ship has sailed. But in terms of keeping free-level players around? I don't think a firm paywall is sensible, and that should be avoided except where essential in my view.

Anyway, that's my own thoughts, and not actually that pertinent to the question I was asking really. The question of expansion vs update for me is not one of money.

If the question was only 'does it warrant a paid for adventure pack'? then I would give a resounding 'shut up and take my money!' but that's not the same as an expansion, and I'm wondering what it is about a new world specifically that warrants taking that paywall step.

NOTE; I'm not calling for some "expansion boycott" or for turbine to "justify" themselves or anything like that. I'm just interested in what other players think because I'm interested, not because I have an ulterior motive to attack anyone/anything.