Legendary level 30 or 31?

[noinfo]

There is no need to admit to being wrong when one knows he is right, and if you go to a nominal level 30 quest it currently clearly tells you the quest is EPIC (not legendary) and on all level 31+ quests, it tells you the quest is LEGENDARY.
Also notice that you need the legendary raid timer bypass hourglasses only for level 31+ raids while raids with lvl 30 only demand the normal (old) non-legendary version.

But these examples only show that SSG is in the question of whether LVL 31 is the first legendary character level only mostly consistent the only thing that comes to my mind that is odd is that you get at level 30 a so-called legendary feat.

And there is by logic no question, we have 20 class levels and therefore level 20 is the last class level and with that the last heroic character level.
Then we have 10 epic levels (21-30) and we get 10 legendary levels (31-40)
It is indeed that simple and it is actually you and SSG who refuse to admit that you are wrong!
The fact that I cannot "force" SSG to do something right means not that I'm wrong.

By logic I hit 20 I am not heroic I am epic, my heroic progression ended. Evidence to this is clear, same with level 30.
What you "believe is right" and what is actually right is not the same thing.

Evidence
-> level 30 quests are intended to be legendary. Text issues are based on release date more than intent.
->level 30 quests are bugged and SSG investigating why they are not giving xp.
->legendary feat at level 30
->discussion by SSG to rename items of 29 and under to epic.

->raid timers, well we know why they were brought into being, they just had to call them something different and they couldn't use the term epic because to their credit they did not want the old ones to stop working on existing raids.

but you go back to doing you!

[mikarddo]

The logic is hit quite a bit by the fact that we start out level 1.00 rather than level 0.00.
Thus heroics actually only has 19 levels as the first level from 0 to 1 is missing.

Heroics: [1.00, 20.00[ (20 excluded)
Epics: [20.00, 30.00[ (30 excluded)
Legendary: [30.00, 40.00] (an inconsistency as exactly level 40.00 is counted as legendary because there is nothing above that).

Not that it matters for any practical purposes

[slarden]

The logic is hit quite a bit by the fact that we start out level 1.00 rather than level 0.00.
Thus heroics actually only has 19 levels as the first level from 0 to 1 is missing.

Heroics: [1.00, 20.00[ (20 excluded)
Epics: [20.00, 30.00[ (30 excluded)
Legendary: [30.00, 40.00] (an inconsistency as exactly level 40.00 is counted as legendary because there is nothing above that).

Not that it matters for any practical purposes

It looks like a change is in the works: https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...=1#post6523093

The irony is that you can get legendary xp from heroic sagas, but not level 30 quests.

[Chacka_DDO]

By logic I hit 20 I am not heroic I am epic, my heroic progression ended. Evidence to this is clear, same with level 30.
What you "believe is right" and what is actually right is not the same thing.

Evidence
-> level 30 quests are intended to be legendary. Text issues are based on release date more than intent.
->level 30 quests are bugged and SSG investigating why they are not giving xp.
->legendary feat at level 30
->discussion by SSG to rename items of 29 and under to epic.

->raid timers, well we know why they were brought into being, they just had to call them something different and they couldn't use the term epic because to their credit they did not want the old ones to stop working on existing raids.

but you go back to doing you!

bla bla yada yada...

Again for you even if this is so super simple that it pops already...

20 heroic class levels (1-20)
10 epic level (21-30)
10 legendary level (31-40)

Very simple but seemingly too hard for you and SSG to understand

[Chacka_DDO]

The logic is hit quite a bit by the fact that we start out level 1.00 rather than level 0.00.
Thus heroics actually only has 19 levels as the first level from 0 to 1 is missing.

Heroics: [1.00, 20.00[ (20 excluded)
Epics: [20.00, 30.00[ (30 excluded)
Legendary: [30.00, 40.00] (an inconsistency as exactly level 40.00 is counted as legendary because there is nothing above that).

Not that it matters for any practical purposes

A level 0 character has no class and is therefore not a heroic character (however you want to call that but it does not exist in DDO anyway) a character starts at level 1 (ONE) with the first-class level and level 20 is the last class level. (very simple)
And before you hit the create button your character is for example not a level 1 barbarian in the same way as your character is not epic before he takes his first epic level (21) or legendary before he takes his first legendary level (31).

I could say much more but this should be obvious enough.

[Weemadarthur]

A level 0 character has no class and is therefore not a heroic character (however you want to call that but it does not exist in DDO anyway) a character starts at level 1 (ONE) with the first-class level and level 20 is the last class level. (very simple)
And before you hit the create button your character is for example not a level 1 barbarian in the same way as your character is not epic before he takes his first epic level (21) or legendary before he takes his first legendary level (31).

I could say much more but this should be obvious enough.

Here we go again. Rather than derail yet another thread with a long argument about why only your opinion can be right and everyone else is wrong why not just accept that this is a complete non issue as SSG are very unlikely to change the whole game just because you and only you think differently. These arguments have all been heard before and you bring nothing new to the table every time you go on one of these rants. Please just accept that your opinions are just that and hold no more weight than everyone elses.

[Tyrande]

Don't blame the dude or dudette, blame the computer.

In Computer programming, and some programming languages like C, we start with 0 instead of 1.

So its natural to go from 0 to 19,

20 to 29,

30 to 39, 40.

We stop the buck at 40 does not mean there are no levels after 40, its just that D&D materials/book said 40 is max; unless Wizards of the Coast invent some books in the future or SSG has some further house rules regarding levels beyond 40.

We did not actually level from 0 to 1 in DDO, we are actually given level 1. I guess level 0 (non-adventurer) to level 1 (adventurer) is basic training. Its like college graduation. The character finally earned the confirmation of the elders/armsmaster/sensei/guru whatever, and is ready to go out there, explore the world and adventure.

I mean we can have some basic training like what we had pre-Kothos on the training island for level 0 -> level 1, but I think the reason is gone is because most people find the training boring.

[slarden]

bla bla yada yada...

Again for you even if this is so super simple that it pops already...

20 heroic class levels (1-20)
10 epic level (21-30)
10 legendary level (31-40)

Very simple but seemingly too hard for you and SSG to understand

You are right level 30 quests have always been epic and the main distinction used to be whether mortal fear proc'd or not. The gear description from those quests even show it as epic. Here is the release notes from U29 that indicate legendary starts at 31 (scroll towards bottom @ quest section): https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_29_Release_Notes

However, since then the devs have been referring to level 30+ quests as legendary so it only makes sense they change it.

I am not sure how much it matters really since getting to 32 isn't hard, but with double rxp starting at 30, I am glad the devs are going to change those quests from epic to legendary. It's just one less point of confusion in the game.

[Cordovan]

This is a bug, and one we intend to fix in the next game update. Base level 30 CR quests should be considered Legendary and give Legendary experience.

[Weemadarthur]

This is a bug, and one we intend to fix in the next game update. Base level 30 CR quests should be considered Legendary and give Legendary experience.

Thanks for the response but just to clarify and to make it easier for everyone to understand exactly which quests should and shouldn't give legendary xp going forth this does mean that only quests which have a base level of 30+ will be rewarding legendary xp when this is working correctly? By that I mean a level 29 quest on elite or reaper should not in fact reward legendary xp as they are in effect still level 29 quests just at higher difficulty rather than level 30+ quests?

As a side note and providing what I said above is correct have you considered removing the level increase due to increased difficulty? As running any quest on elite+ is a lot more difficult than running any quest 2 levels higher on normal the added levels shown by increasing difficulty actually makes no real sense anyway.

[TheMaxpower]

Why not test these things before release?

[ahpook]

why not test these things before release?

roflmao

[ahpook]

Thanks for the response but just to clarify and to make it easier for everyone to understand exactly which quests should and shouldn't give legendary xp going forth this does mean that only quests which have a base level of 30+ will be rewarding legendary xp when this is working correctly? By that I mean a level 29 quest on elite or reaper should not in fact reward legendary xp as they are in effect still level 29 quests just at higher difficulty rather than level 30+ quests?

As a side note and providing what I said above is correct have you considered removing the level increase due to increased difficulty? As running any quest on elite+ is a lot more difficult than running any quest 2 levels higher on normal the added levels shown by increasing difficulty actually makes no real sense anyway.

I don't disagree with you but they made a similar poor decision at level 20 so I don't know why they would correct that at 30. I guess they could do it differently because for years people have been pointing out that level 18 and 19 quests are wasted because you cannot run them in reaper once you take 20. It is odd that rather than listen to that feedback SSG decided to double down and also remove other difficulty levels as options.

It is beyound ridiculous that you would suddenly not be able to run lower level quests without gaining any sort of XP, RXP or regular.

As you can guess by my comment above, I agree with your sentiment. The discontinuity was bad at level 20. It is sad that they decided to make it even worse at level 30. (though I believe you can still bring in epic chars into a legendary party which is better than the epic/heroic situation so one thing is better).

[Chacka_DDO]

Here we go again. Rather than derail yet another thread with a long argument about why only your opinion can be right and everyone else is wrong why not just accept that this is a complete non issue as SSG are very unlikely to change the whole game just because you and only you think differently. These arguments have all been heard before and you bring nothing new to the table every time you go on one of these rants. Please just accept that your opinions are just that and hold no more weight than everyone elses.

Not only my opinion can be right, that is nonsense.
I just only say how it is and if I would be wrong I would for sure admit it but the logic is so simple and clear that there is no doubt about it DDO (and D&D?) has 20 heroic class levels (1-20), 10 epic level (21-30) and in the future 10 legendary levels (31-40).
There are inconsistencies to it in DDO but this doesn't change this fact!
And that SSG is not willing to remove these inconsistencies makes them only look awful to everyone who understands that.

[ahpook]

Not only my opinion can be right, that is nonsense.
I just only say how it is and if I would be wrong I would for sure admit it but the logic is so simple and clear that there is no doubt about it DDO (and D&D?) has 20 heroic class levels (1-20), 10 epic level (21-30) and in the future 10 legendary levels (31-40).
There are inconsistencies to it in DDO but this doesn't change this fact!
And that SSG is not willing to remove these inconsistencies makes them only look awful to everyone who understands that.

Your conclusions are entirely valid .... for your made up numbers.

With these numbers (which are what SSG seems to use) you are completely wrong:
19 heroic levels (1-19)
10 Epic (20-29)
3 Legendary (30-32) (though the last level is only partial as you can not gain ED nor experience while you are 32 (yet))

[Chacka_DDO]

This is a bug, and one we intend to fix in the next game update. Base level 30 CR quests should be considered Legendary and give Legendary experience.

This is a clear contradiction to what we see currently in DDO and to all that you said so far, level 30 quests are considered epic in DDO
Take a look at this picture:



And now how it looks for a nominal level 31 quest:



It is not only like I say because it is pure and simple logic (20 heroic class level 1-20, 10 epic level 21-30 and 10 legendary level in the future 31-40)
Also so far almost everything in DDO confirms that so I have no idea why you keep telling such things.
It is really not that hard and no matter if you don't like me (for whatever reason) and wish I'm wrong what I say is simply right and logical correct!

[Chacka_DDO]

Your conclusions are entirely valid .... for your made up numbers.

With these numbers (which are what SSG seems to use) you are completely wrong:
19 heroic levels (1-19)
10 Epic (20-29)
3 Legendary (30-32) (though the last level is only partial as you can not gain ED nor experience while you are 32 (yet))

also for you once again, we have 20 heroic class levels (1-20), 10 epic levels (21-30) and we will have 10 legendary levels (31-40).
I have no idea how you get the idea that we have 19 heroic class levels.
And that we will see 10 legendary levels (up to 40) is already announced, by your logic we would have 11 legendary levels.

[slarden]

This is a clear contradiction to what we see currently in DDO and to all that you said so far, level 30 quests are considered epic in DDO
Take a look at this picture:



And now how it looks for a nominal level 31 quest:



It is not only like I say because it is pure and simple logic (20 heroic class level 1-20, 10 epic level 21-30 and 10 legendary level in the future 31-40)
Also so far almost everything in DDO confirms that so I have no idea why you keep telling such things.
It is really not that hard and no matter if you don't like me (for whatever reason) and wish I'm wrong what I say is simply right and logical correct!

It's semantics, clearly these have always been epic quests by design up to U55, but the devs intention has always been to allow us to earn legendary xp with level 30+ quests.

I am not sure what their fix is going to be. Whether they relabel these quests as legendary or change their logic to look at unadjusted quest level, it gets us to the same place.

The important thing is that this is a positive change for players and a rare moment where the devs and most players agree on a change that is beneficial to players. I am just happy with the change.

[Chacka_DDO]

It's semantics, clearly these have always been epic quests by design up to U55, but the devs intention has always been to allow us to earn legendary xp with level 30+ quests.

I am not sure what their fix is going to be. Whether they relabel these quests as legendary or change their logic to look at unadjusted quest level, it gets us to the same place.

The important thing is that this is a positive change for players and a rare moment where the devs and most players agree on a change that is beneficial to players. I am just happy with the change.

First of all the decision that you get only experience for your legendary character levels in legendary quests (31+) is not mandatory but I see it as reasonable.
And As I pointed already out this is also no contradiction because a nominal level 30 quest is in fact effective level 31 when you play it in hard and 32 when you play epic or reaper.
Therefore if nominal level 30 quests give no legendary experience when you play them on normal and if they give legendary experience when you play them on hard, elite, and reaper it would be perfectly logical and there is no need to suddenly call such nomical level 30 quests legendary (on normal).

And I would also more like when the level 30 quests give legendary experience and when you still can get reaper experience in such quests.

But the important message is that it doesn't matter whether I like it or not, it is simply logically and correct that such quests give on hard, elite, and reaper legendary experience because they are 31+ at that difficulties and therefore legendary.
And maybe it is just unnecessary hairsplitting but a level 30 quest (such quests on normal) is still epic!

The only thing I would recommend to make it perfectly consistent at this point is that nominal level 29 quests should also still give legendary experience when you play them elite or reaper (and consequential also reaper experience)

And if they would make the transition from heroic to epic exactly the same I would be happy with that!

[noinfo]

This is a clear contradiction to what we see currently in DDO and to all that you said so far, level 30 quests are considered epic in DDO
Take a look at this picture:



And now how it looks for a nominal level 31 quest:



It is not only like I say because it is pure and simple logic (20 heroic class level 1-20, 10 epic level 21-30 and 10 legendary level in the future 31-40)
Also so far almost everything in DDO confirms that so I have no idea why you keep telling such things.
It is really not that hard and no matter if you don't like me (for whatever reason) and wish I'm wrong what I say is simply right and logical correct!

I am sure Lyn can fix that typo in level 30 quests. Its almost like when they released them they didn't have the legendary concept in place. Oh wait, they didn't.

Also level 31+ quests show in the LFM and EPIC (reaper)