U45 THF Paladin for Racial Lives

[Wipey]

Let's stay civil please and make notes as the the reaper level in question...some gearing, twists, etc become better on different settings.

Building for epic 8 - 10 skulls quests and r1 raids ( except thth ) is worthy of discussion imo. I shouldn't have reacted, my bad. Please do carry on ))

[palladin9479]

Building for epic 8 - 10 skulls quests and r1 raids ( except thth ) is worthy of discussion imo. I shouldn't have reacted, my bad. Please do carry on ))

Get out of here with that weak sauce, solo R11 or GTFO.

Seriously though, smites are terrible on Paladin, same with Quicken. FoP is because Wisdom is a dump stat on Paladin and Charisma is massive better, QD due to most of Paladin's abilities into epics are treated was weapon swaps for some reason. The rest is super situational, meld isn't what it used to be due to the nerf and sense sucks unless you have casters doing Mass Hold Monster on targets not immune to mind control. If your in a high level reaper group with casters, then your being carried as a Paladin, that's just how reaper scaling works with all melee's vs casters / ranged.

Unless of course your running Assimar with Falconry and Inquisitive and ignoring Paladin entirely, which I suspect is what your doing because everything you mentioned belongs that that category of play.

[count_spicoli]

Pick up racial past lives on a high DPS and survivable melee platform.
Perform exceptionally well in some raids: Shroud, Killing Time, Strahd, Too Hot to Handle
Perform adequately in other raids.
Perform adequately in high reaper content

Responding only to the first so cant comment on on the others since i havent taken a pally to cap with the new overhaul yet.

I have done 4 racial past lives with a pally since they redid the enhancements and they are really good. Running r3 and r4 grouping and soloing is pretty solid. I always use exatled smite. In heroics exalted smite is a bomb that now hits whatever mobs you got strike thru on and can crit on all of them. Remember the base bonus dmg you get for regular smiltes calculates into the crits which are 2 range/2 multi. To compare it to divine sacrifice is incorrect. You get x1 multi for divine sac with no xtra dmg in it and doesnt hit on strike thru. I insta killed 3 orthons at lvl 16 at one with an exalted smite in r3. Thats how good it is.

And why would anyone take fop on a pally when you get divine grace which already adds your cha mod to all your saves including will. Maybe something I'm missing.

As far as levling racial lives to get stunning blow as fast as you can. For soloing r3 and r4 you will def want to use this and trip because remember now it hits with strike thru so regularly stunning and tripping 3 things. Having a mob of crowns stunned in r3 is alot better than them pounding on you.

[LavidDynch]

The initial post, aka the OP is what I would never ever do... and here I thought paladins was more SSG-proofed and stremlined than even barbarians in terms on of how to build it... (aka: str, cha, con .use all feats that looks good for you, don´t pick them in alphabetical order and you will be just fine......

Fury and paladin is a real bad mix to begin with, even if fury is better than LD for two handers....

the DDO anthem...

[Tobril]

And why would anyone take fop on a pally when you get divine grace which already adds your cha mod to all your saves including will. Maybe something I'm missing.

As far as leveling racial lives to get stunning blow as fast as you can. For soloing r3 and r4 you will def want to use this and trip because remember now it hits with strike thru so regularly stunning and tripping 3 things. Having a mob of crowns stunned in r3 is alot better than them pounding on you.

PDK could justify Force of Personality. That's a bit out of scope here. You could also take it to help with gearing issues and that would be OK.

I've stunning blow'd soft targets in R8 Sharn and have been pleasantly surprised by how helpful the extra stun cooldown is for tackling targets that tend to be out of an AOE all by themselves. Strikethrough works on it too, as you mentioned, giving extra value. It's helpful though not mandatory.

[Tobril]

The initial post, aka the OP is what I would never ever do... and here I thought paladins was more SSG-proofed and stremlined than even barbarians in terms on of how to build it... (aka: str, cha, con .use all feats that looks good for you, don´t pick them in alphabetical order and you will be just fine......

Fury and paladin is a real bad mix to begin with, even if fury is better than LD for two handers....

They are fun though and that's OK

I'm working epic lives in combination with racial lives. That's the main reason for mentioning Fury.

[LavidDynch]

They are fun though and that's OK

I'm working epic lives in combination with racial lives. That's the main reason for mentioning Fury.

I can´t remember exactly what it was but it was something that didnt function at all or was being turned off while being raged that was annoying the **** out of me when I tried out the paladin. (probably the sacred defender stuff - mmr/prr con-str...)..

[palladin9479]

And why would anyone take fop on a pally when you get divine grace which already adds your cha mod to all your saves including will. Maybe something I'm missing.

Because Wisdom, the normal stat for Will saves, is a dump stat and your replacing it entirely with one of Paladin's key stats. Charisma effectively counts twice then, once for Will and again for Divine Grace. Will save is the source of the most annoyingly lethal status effects you will be targeted with, Hold, Dance and Confusion. If I had a way of replacing Reflex with Charisma instead of Dex I would, thankfully Reflex is usually just damage and we can reduce that with lots of stuff anyway. Fort is Paladin's high save along with being linked to Constitution, a stat all melee's should have high values for anyway.

As for Exalted Smite, it sucks for it's cost and is noob bait. No matter how people spin in, spending 6~9 AP for a charge ability that adds +2/2 is bad. Now if they lowered it's cost to 1AP per upgrade, like we asked them to during Preview 1, then I could see it being taken. Running around in heroics where your crit range is 15~25% means exalted has a 65~75% chance of being a waste. With 3~5 smites naturally that means about one of them is going to be useful, unless we spend another 3AP, bringing the total to 9AP, to give a second useful one. For damage Divine Sacrifice is better, which has a 3s cool down, no charges and adds +1 Crit Multi for 1AP. Just pressing Sacrifice over and over again will get you better damage then Exalted Smite because you can do it forever, heck it even gives us more melee power (10) when hitting evil opponents.

Tobril at least had a decent use for it, Adrenaline forces a crit at a huge damage multiplier. He's using Exalted Smite to buff the crit multi on that attack even higher resulting in a guaranteed giant damage bomb. Since the whole purpose of fury and Adrenaline is to generate spike damage on demand and it also has charges, they work together pretty well. There are issues with going in Fury, but if the purpose of the build is to make a DPS that specializes in spike damage, then it works pretty well.

Normal Great Sword would have a 3.0 Crit Multi after Holy Sword, Long Swords and Battle Axes would have 4.0. All of these are at a 25% threat range (16-20) with Holy Sword.
Exalted by itself would raise that to 35% threat range (14-20) and 5.0 crit multi (for Great Sword), that's a 65% chance of doing nothing and a 35% chance of being really cool. We can see the issue right there, limited charges with a slow recharge rate means we can't afford for it to do nothing. Now Adrenaline adds +80% crit rate (+16 threat), which immediately brings our 65% chance of doing nothing to 0% chance. So 100% chance of doing a 5.0 crit attack that just also does +400% damage (another 5.0 multi). That's an attack that will do more then 25x the damage of a regular attack and can be repeated until the player runs out of Adrenaline/Smite charges. So epic raid boss beater.

[palladin9479]

I can´t remember exactly what it was but it was something that didnt function at all or was being turned off while being raged that was annoying the **** out of me when I tried out the paladin. (probably the sacred defender stuff - mmr/prr con-str...)..

Fury prevents defensive stances from working and that's one of the Paladin's key survival mechanisms. I once did a Paladin Fury Vanguard, was doing 50K per shield bash and it was glorious. Everything else was kinda meh, but during Unbridled Fury it demolished everything.

[Tobril]

I can´t remember exactly what it was but it was something that didnt function at all or was being turned off while being raged that was annoying the **** out of me when I tried out the paladin. (probably the sacred defender stuff - mmr/prr con-str...)..

You do have to drop stance and losing all those tasty treats is a pain. Ditto if a tank can't hold against the built-in 150% threat generation.

Unloading smites/Confront any Foe during the Fury moment with a boost is surprisingly OK burst damage.

I don't prefer Fury for Paladin by any means, it's just some observations that could help someone who wants Primal lives.


It's like getting a new toy but being told you have to clean the backyard instead...and then you find a kind of neat stick and everything is alright once more.

[LavidDynch]

You do have to drop stance and losing all those tasty treats is a pain. Ditto if a tank can't hold against the built-in 150% threat generation.

Unloading smites/Confront any Foe during the Fury moment with a boost is surprisingly OK burst damage.

I don't prefer Fury for Paladin by any means, it's just some observations that could help someone who wants Primal lives.


It's like getting a new toy but being told you have to clean the backyard instead...and then you find a kind of neat stick and everything is alright once more.

I guess just going barb would be the safest choice for primal lifes right now; super powerfull cannot literally die in r1 with blood tribute and ravager t5 for solo-leveling (FB might be stronger if your grouped thou and the W5-knockdown is a godsend.... If your going 1-30 an aasimar clr/barb build would probably be great I still think you can loh while raged if you feel that you need the extra heal button. or just horc for totally crushing everything with a 1 or 2 lvls of clr for confront any foe...

no matter. the important thing is that you enjoy what you play and if ur not that bothered with losing the paladin defensive stuff while being in primal than more power to you!.

[palladin9479]

@Tobril,

Just got done reworking my sets a bit and found a solid path.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Ruby of Adamantine
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Silver Dragon Scale Helm (+10 Ins Strength) (changed this out completely, hate that **** tiara)
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Whatever/Shatter/Quality Strength) (Put slavers here)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This let me fit in even more stats, just gotta get more Forge runes now. Got flexibility on the second augment on that ring since the helm gives "accuracy".

Note, just got done a bunch of R8 last few days and without any "accuracy" items i'm sitting at +163 attack bonus and had no issues in smashing stuff left and right. People can pour more accuracy on but I really think it'll be overkill in most places.

[Tobril]

@Tobril,

Just got done reworking my sets a bit and found a solid path.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Ruby of Adamantine
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Silver Dragon Scale Helm (+10 Ins Strength) (changed this out completely, hate that **** tiara)
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Whatever/Shatter/Quality Strength) (Put slavers here)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This let me fit in even more stats, just gotta get more Forge runes now. Got flexibility on the second augment on that ring since the helm gives "accuracy".

Note, just got done a bunch of R8 last few days and without any "accuracy" items i'm sitting at +163 attack bonus and had no issues in smashing stuff left and right. People can pour more accuracy on but I really think it'll be overkill in most places.

That's a good setup too. It does need FOM via potion/spell, otherwise you lose quite a bit in the possible swap slots.

I ended up with basically the same slavelords item and put Devotion in the "whatever" slot since the +8 resist augment gets the softer saves in the high 90's.

If you can manage, a deconstructor give a little more kick than just the adamantine weapon augment. I'm running that plus the vampire slayer for silver and a pinch more damage. I carry the strahd greatsword for any other strange DRs and a LGS Salt weapon for the occasional CC in strange party comps and to bypass evil DR.

[palladin9479]

Oh for FoM, we can use Flightfloot but then we'll lose out on +9 Charisma from Softsole, no vender sells scrolls so eternal flask, honestly if it gets down to it I'll sacrifice some charisma.

[StromReich]

Really like this build! I had an idea for a somewhat similar build and wanted to know if you have tried anything like it, or maybe tips on how to make it work.

I’ve noticed a huge difference in both single and two handed fighting. Obviously THF deals much more damage and TWF hits faster. I was trying to work out how to create and capitalize off both aspects of THF/TWF, improved, greater, and perfect THF & TWF, for the most benefits out of both. Wanted to specialize in bastard swords, as they are considered a two handed weapon and would stand to gain benefits from both.

Initially I choose 14Pally, 4fghtr, 2monk BF for enhancement bonus to strike through from both BF and KoTC tree. T5 KoTC has some very hard hitting moves and a self replenishing exalted smite that deals a lot of damage. The last combat feat I choose was Whirlwind. With those 5 attacks, or 6 if you count spring attack, it’s very possible to hop into the middle of a large mob, keep hitting with one spin attack followed by another and timer will have reset when you need to use it again.

A large drawback is 14 pally will only get one top lvl spell, holy sword being the better of the two in my opinion. I just couldn’t find a way to get the feats needed for Whirlwind, Bastard Sword, Critical: Slash, and full chains of TWF/THF.

Even without whirlwind, this should be a fairly effective combo. Have you tried using bastard swords or insight you might have into it would help?

[palladin9479]

Whirlwind is terrible, especially if your using THF, it's a giant noob trap. Warforged is also the absolute worth race to go Paladin on. Paladin will naturally get energy immunity along with ridiculously high saves and the ability to use Greater Restoration on themselves should anything get through the defenses. All Paladin's healing is positive, it's tree's include tons of Positive Healing Amplification, all of which being Warforged mess's with. Paladin gets two Cleaves in it's enhancement tree's and is feat starved, Whirlwind requires we waste four feats to get, to do something Paladin already does. I've already gone over how bad exalted smite is, though at least Torbil has a good use for it in Raid boss killing.

I really hate that devs left so many noob traps in the game with descriptions that "sound" awesome, but work out to be terrible in practice.

If you really want to go Warforged, then Artificer or Wizard works out really well. Both of those get natural repair spells and Reconstruct is ridiculous for self healing WF's.

Generally you want to run at least 18 levels of Paladin for the 18 core goodies, post update they are very nice. If someone is dead set on a big split, then dump Paladin all together and go with War domain cleric, get most of the same stuff only with a bit more flexibility and more levels to play with. 14 Cleric / 5 Barb / 1 Fighter is really nice.

Level 2: You gain +1 to hit and damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.
Upon Turning: When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds.
Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.
Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.
Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA. 10 SP, 6 second cooldown

Go for the Frenzied Berserker T5 with for bigger crits, Holy Sword, Warcaster, Divine Might, Ameliorating Strike and Holy Striker on Cleric and Action Boost Haste from fighter. Plus Cleric would give native access to Cure spells and Heal.

Got two options for favored weapons, first is Divine Crusader Book of War for Great Swords, second is 11 points in Wood Elf for Falchions if you really want. These only matter if your running in Divine Crusader as there are some benefits for using Favored Weapons there, KoTC is the only tree that really requires them, otherwise Favored Weapons aren't a big deal. Then you can go big and use Mauls from Silvanus, but that's an Iconic.

[Tobril]

Really like this build! I had an idea for a somewhat similar build and wanted to know if you have tried anything like it, or maybe tips on how to make it work.

I’ve noticed a huge difference in both single and two handed fighting. Obviously THF deals much more damage and TWF hits faster. I was trying to work out how to create and capitalize off both aspects of THF/TWF, improved, greater, and perfect THF & TWF, for the most benefits out of both. Wanted to specialize in bastard swords, as they are considered a two handed weapon and would stand to gain benefits from both.

Initially I choose 14Pally, 4fghtr, 2monk BF for enhancement bonus to strike through from both BF and KoTC tree. T5 KoTC has some very hard hitting moves and a self replenishing exalted smite that deals a lot of damage. The last combat feat I choose was Whirlwind. With those 5 attacks, or 6 if you count spring attack, it’s very possible to hop into the middle of a large mob, keep hitting with one spin attack followed by another and timer will have reset when you need to use it again.

A large drawback is 14 pally will only get one top lvl spell, holy sword being the better of the two in my opinion. I just couldn’t find a way to get the feats needed for Whirlwind, Bastard Sword, Critical: Slash, and full chains of TWF/THF.

Even without whirlwind, this should be a fairly effective combo. Have you tried using bastard swords or insight you might have into it would help?

TWF and THF can't be mixed, unless there's something funny happening now. One style is all you get.

KoTC gives two free cleaves and there's much better feat choices that make whirlwind a hard sell.

With the new strikethrough mechanic you'll have plenty of AOE damage.

You can get most of the THF benefits with the bastard/dwarf weapon. The only thing you lose is significant DPS and the Chrism doesn't work with bastard/dwarf. Hand-and-a-half weapons are waaaaaaay less DPS overall and the shield benefits are rather low compared to the DPS loss for a non-tank melee.

Bladeforged is a sweet race for paladin. You get repair spells, double-tap lay hands, and some really nice racial abilities. You'll want the weapon attachment and Power of the Forge boost.

I'd recommend paladin DPS be pure or close to pure, otherwise a cleric/fighter combination will give you something solid.

[LavidDynch]

Oh for FoM, we can use Flightfloot but then we'll lose out on +9 Charisma from Softsole, no vender sells scrolls so eternal flask, honestly if it gets down to it I'll sacrifice some charisma.

just stay on softsole, gives ghostly too. I have, well... I, well guess right now I would say due to TR, I had FoM as a spell and used flask 90% of the few cases due to being a raging cleric build... u actually do need to use it that often. As a Paladin u will make most saves like hold person anyway... FoM is very minor thing in DDO these days and there is a flask for the few Q´s you need it in...you can also swap in boots for those rare occassions...

edit : I think the best overall melee build right now is a PDK pure pally(requires +1 heart thou) or a bear. THF dps is quite insane these days but the same problems such as lag and poor d-fens compared to ranged still exists... oh well at least its more fun.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Building for epic 8 - 10 skulls quests and r1 raids ( except thth ) is worthy of discussion imo.

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. People find it to be beneath themselves to discuss building for casual gaming, because they believe "if people were building for Reaper, they'd had everything they'd need for casual gaming as well, so everyone should follow what's posted in Reaper discussions, nothing else."

It's kind of elitism to think that everyone should do what those people at the top do : And that is build everything for Reaper. Even if people do not want to play Reaper.
Reaper has become the mark to aim at, and if one doesn't, one becomes ignored.

I bet if I was posting a build with the headline of "for casual gaming", no-one would answer. Or at least no-one of the reaper builders.

So, we're stuck in a world within the top people define how a game is to be played, and that is not only elitism, it is also some kind of Oligarchy.

[LavidDynch]

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. People find it to be beneath themselves to discuss building for casual gaming, because they believe "if people were building for Reaper, they'd had everything they'd need for casual gaming as well, so everyone should follow what's posted in Reaper discussions, nothing else."

It's kind of elitism to think that everyone should do what those people at the top do : And that is build everything for Reaper. Even if people do not want to play Reaper.
Reaper has become the mark to aim at, and if one doesn't, one becomes ignored.

I bet if I was posting a build with the headline of "for casual gaming", no-one would answer. Or at least no-one of the reaper builders.

So, we're stuck in a world within the top people define how a game is to be played, and that is not only elitism, it is also some kind of Oligarchy.

look at it this way, when I was a kid, about 10 and played sportsball (sock-her or football) we used the 4-4-2 system or the 4-3-3. (defender/midfielder/attacker).. we were just playing for fun and had zero ambitions to become anything in the game other than just having fun. we lost ALOT! In fact we never won a game; one time we even scored a goal! I almost became a hero for hitting the post once!... but we still used the same tactics and system as the best clubs in the world used instead of the real old skoool way of playing sportsball in the 1800´s; the good old and more FUN system of 1-1-9. Nine attackers now that sure sounds like a lot of more fun doesn´t it? and still we didn´t use that tactic cause the results would probably be even more horrendous...

with that said... there are builds that are greater in r1 than in r10 and viceversa, and r10 build might perform poorly in r1 (relatively)

also.. what on earth is a casual gamer? there is a casual mode in the game if that is what you mean? I don´t think there are 2 gamers that are alike so in other words there is no such thing as a casual gamer, its a pointless word. Do you mean ppl who play less? If so why on earth would I bother if the current system is designed top-down? I have played other mmo´s with zero ambitions just to test them out, grinding out this and that testing dungeons and dying alot... I was hardly whining on the forums for the design. (I guess that is one definition of the term casual-gamer? -- I have no idea)