the fear of the soloist.

[silinteresting]

At some point they would have to nerf self healing down to 0% - otherwise the power creep in the near future would just catch people back up again to the point where the "penalty" isnt punitive enough to stop people from soloing the hardest difficulty settings.

Keep in mind Im not saying we are at the point where R7-10 is a joke, but it is approaching that point. Back in the day we would have never imagined soloing elite either, but it became the standard eventually.

i think your a bit off here but i respect your opinion, i dont believe even 80% of the player
base could solo reaper 7-10 its probally higher, heck sure there are some dungeons that
can be done easier than others but we are nowhere near that point where all soloers are
completing all quests at the highest level.

the devs have other options too which may include more champions being spawned and more
reapers before the self healing aspect has even to be considered. so that means reaper has a
longer life span than perhaps your giving it credit for.

last but not least how far back in time are you going when you say never imagined soloing
elite? i remember when i joined that i was soloing heroic and epic elites about 6 months after
i started playing and that was back in 2010. heck i will say it was even easier back then as
once you reached the magic numbers it was game over, no champs and no reapers ment the
game was static and easy to beat.

your friend sil

[banjo174]

i remember when i joined that i was soloing heroic and epic elites about 6 months after
i started playing and that was back in 2010

Funny, Epic elite didn't comes out until mid 2012. So, either you are a liar, or your memory is a bit off. https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_14

Unless of course you were soloing the epic content that was before Epic Elite. Which that epic content was much harder than the epic elite that exists today.

[Chai]

i think your a bit off here but i respect your opinion, i dont believe even 80% of the player
base could solo reaper 7-10 its probally higher, heck sure there are some dungeons that
can be done easier than others but we are nowhere near that point where all soloers are
completing all quests at the highest level.

the devs have other options too which may include more champions being spawned and more
reapers before the self healing aspect has even to be considered. so that means reaper has a
longer life span than perhaps your giving it credit for.

last but not least how far back in time are you going when you say never imagined soloing
elite? i remember when i joined that i was soloing heroic and epic elites about 6 months after
i started playing and that was back in 2010. heck i will say it was even easier back then as
once you reached the magic numbers it was game over, no champs and no reapers ment the
game was static and easy to beat.

your friend sil

Only a bit off for the time being, but as power creep allows it to happen more and more, will be spot on.

Also EE was mid 2012. What you were soloing was the toned down old school post revamp epics. They played something similar to EH today.

When the original epics came out in 2009, those were a pretty good example of players grouping because it was too hard to solo with a decent margin of error / reasonable guarantee the soloer wasnt going to experience character death as the outcome. In many of the solo achievement threads, people would post how many attempts it took, how many mana potions etc...

If "flood the hallway with champions" is the answer to giving reaper difficulty a longer life, just kill it now.

[Amorais]

Don't know about anyone else but I class HH and HE as the same difficulty. Since champs came out, both these are effectively now "Random" difficulty as the quest is entirely a case of how unlucky you are with dice rolls instead of how challenging the dungeon is.

I've done really tough Elite dungeons with relative ease because the RNG didn't spawn a champ. Then done the self same dungeon again on Hard and 2 champs have spawned in the same encounter and I'm annihilated.

I mean its hardly worth getting a group when some random troll champ triple jumps you for 70, 80 and 60 damage in 1 round closely followed by a devastating acid DOT meaning your dead before you've even managed to swing a sword. Sure they can drag you to a rest shrine. Group or solo your still dead with no chance of avoiding it.

I hate the champ mechanic intensely. How about if your solo, you can do up to normal difficulty. Over that, you need a minimum of two players IMO. The game shouldn't allow solo to enter the harder difficulties - and this is coming from a soloer.

[banjo174]

Don't know about anyone else but I class HH and HE as the same difficulty. Since champs came out

Let me stop you right there. Go ahead and click this link, (https://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Champion), and edumicate yourself on the difference between Hard and Elite. Go ahead and edumicate yourself on the difference between Elite and reaper 1 skull while you're at it.

[silinteresting]

Funny, Epic elite didn't comes out until mid 2012. So, either you are a liar, or your memory is a bit off. https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_14

Unless of course you were soloing the epic content that was before Epic Elite. Which that epic content was much harder than the epic elite that exists today.

i appologise i should of said epic content not epic elite.

your friend sil

[silinteresting]

If "flood the hallway with champions" is the answer to giving reaper difficulty a longer life, just kill it now.

oh come now, champions are fun are they not.

your friend sil

a quick ps, a quest where nothing but champions spawn and when the
champion dies it spawns a reaper would be great fun. well to me anyhow.

[krimsonrane]

I'm curious why it matters what someone else does when you never see them and they have no effect on your gaming?

[fatherpirate]

Taking time to post because the game ate itself (AGAIN) because when ever the developers tries to stealth load something the game crashes dead and unrepairable.
Got fast internet so just reload.
Back to the OP post.
----------------
I see mainly 2 types of players, Members of Tycoons of tomorrow and solo players being bugged by ToT.
soon 90 % of players will be ToT, Players will join just to stop being recruited and get free buffs.
Important - but still solo.
---------------
The game is not group friendly.
No large 'Public' hunting grounds to meet people.
All adventuring is private instance.
Even guild ships have been streamlined to be quick buff stations.
It is hard to set up regular group dungeons even if you do belong to a guild.
-------------
The more private instances = solo friendly, group unfriendly.
More Public fighting/adventure/hunting areas = group friendly, solo unfriendly.
------------
DDO is BARELY an mmo.
Closer to solo game with chat areas.
-----------
This is not a good or bad thing.
LOTRO is group friendly AND uses same game engine (I think)
Instances are mainly for buildings/shops
Public areas hold most missions, so you MEET FOLKS ...while killing orcs.
----------
That is my take.

[Arctigis]

With 5 difficulty settings, one of which having 10 gradients, no one is asking for solo to be more difficult in all of them.

That begs the question that the reason people solo is because they can and they would group if they
could not. IMHO there is very little evidence for this. As illustrated in this thread, and the countless
others on this issue over the past thirteen years, there are lots of reasons people choose to solo.

You seem to be assuming that an entitlement exists to be able to complete the majority of quests (including Raids)
at the highest difficulty settings (lets say elite + R1 - R10 for the sake of argument). I've never seen
that.

Getting rid of group play by having the game solo-able at the highest setting is just as negatively impacting
on head count retention as getting rid of soloing by making it too difficult to solo the lower settings.

Wait, they got rid of group play? when did they do that?

What I normally find in these threads is that the actual problem being talked about is
not enough groups. Even if SSG made soloing literally impossible, it would not change this.

But hey, with all these different settings, why specifically cant the game have spaces for both?

It does. They introduced a whole new difficulty range and monster champions which are
more easily handled by groups. Champions alone drove away players who preferred to solo.

What other change(s) would you ask for?

The soloers will of course avoid talking about the real elephant in the room here.
I figured id give it a shot anyhow.

I think there are a herd of elephants. Like nobody knows just how many people are
soloing (except SSG, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they did not). Why
so many* players are choosing to solo rather than group or why players who group
want to group with players who don't want to (or would prefer not to).

*numbers unknown

I guess I'm just missing exactly how soloists are actually affecting the game.

Access to the strongest equipment in the game (a game which is thematically dominated
by gaining incremental character power) is gated by grouping mechanics yet
still players forgo that access. That should tell you something.

[kelavas]

No, it's fine to say reaper mode is a joke, because it is. Firegoddess is having no issues getting to 156 reaper points and maxed out the trees and is running R10 easily. Let's not forget about other players such as Zantettsuken of Argonnessen or Nightmare from Orien (his old build) and plenty others on different servers. Barbarians have ridiculous power in the reaper mode. For those of you interested because of the Ravager enhancements - barbarians self healing in Reaper mode is a joke because it scales with melee power and isn't nerfed in reaper mode. I am currently trying to find ridiculous ways to overachieve R10 solo with the self healing possible. I am getting close and it isn't hard at all. They need to nerf that kinda power and it will creep barbarians away.

Reaper Mode.
Is.
A.
Joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qgVO7mI8J4&t=826s

[Chai]

oh come now, champions are fun are they not.

your friend sil

a quick ps, a quest where nothing but champions spawn and when the
champion dies it spawns a reaper would be great fun. well to me anyhow.

This can be called, Reaper 11.

It should have a pic of the guy from spinal tap as the quest entrance icon.

[Chai]

No, it's fine to say reaper mode is a joke, because it is. Firegoddess is having no issues getting to 156 reaper points and maxed out the trees and is running R10 easily. Let's not forget about other players such as Zantettsuken of Argonnessen or Nightmare from Orien (his old build) and plenty others on different servers. Barbarians have ridiculous power in the reaper mode. For those of you interested because of the Ravager enhancements - barbarians self healing in Reaper mode is a joke because it scales with melee power and isn't nerfed in reaper mode. I am currently trying to find ridiculous ways to overachieve R10 solo with the self healing possible. I am getting close and it isn't hard at all. They need to nerf that kinda power and it will creep barbarians away.

Reaper Mode.
Is.
A.
Joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qgVO7mI8J4&t=826s

/dies to the end boss to prove it.

At least you didnt cheese-complete that part.

[Chai]

That begs the question that the reason people solo is because they can and they would group if they
could not. IMHO there is very little evidence for this. As illustrated in this thread, and the countless
others on this issue over the past thirteen years, there are lots of reasons people choose to solo.

You seem to be assuming that an entitlement exists to be able to complete the majority of quests (including Raids)
at the highest difficulty settings (lets say elite + R1 - R10 for the sake of argument). I've never seen
that.

I am not assuming it. We have aggregated much of it. People lobbied hard for anything to make elite tougher not to happen, and to keep things which were originally unintended in elite (example: dungeon scaling benefitting soloers) to be kept in place and not changed to be as originally intended due to what you claim is only being assumed here - entitlement.

Wait, they got rid of group play? when did they do that?

Making elite too easy then telling people that they can still group if they want to is mere semantics.

"Never mind the fact that average players can complete at run speed on the harder settings, the group system still exists so you can still use it" - is a terrible application of logic.

What I normally find in these threads is that the actual problem being talked about is
not enough groups. Even if SSG made soloing literally impossible, it would not change this.

You are again not addressing the real point here. People often address these points as if DDO has one difficulty setting and then strawman the position to mean "make it impossible to solo the entire game" which is simply incorrect. It SHOULD BE near impossible to solo the toughest difficulty settings however. Reaper temporarily accomplished this, but power creep continues to erode that away to the point where mid reaper is the new elite.

It does. They introduced a whole new difficulty range and monster champions which are
more easily handled by groups. Champions alone drove away players who preferred to solo.

Another fine example. Oh how the xp/min crowd moaned when champions were added. People wanted them to be optional so they could still zerg-complete quests without having their margin of error decreased. From above, youre telling me you never saw any of this?

I think there are a herd of elephants. Like nobody knows just how many people are
soloing (except SSG, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they did not). Why
so many* players are choosing to solo rather than group or why players who group
want to group with players who don't want to (or would prefer not to).

*numbers unknown

I guess I'm just missing exactly how soloists are actually affecting the game.

Access to the strongest equipment in the game (a game which is thematically dominated
by gaining incremental character power) is gated by grouping mechanics yet
still players forgo that access. That should tell you something.

And theres the obligatory "cant possible know for sure" that gets posted into every thread. When evidence did exist they moved to remove it, and those whose positions resort to posting the "cant possibly know for sure" position in every thread were delighted when this happened.

I guess I'm just missing exactly how soloists are actually affecting the game.

Its been iterated several hundred times now on these forums, and a few times in this thread, as well as in this post. Those objective readers doing their homework on this can start by answering the question "why was reaper needed in the first place?"

Clue#1, and bonus office pool: How long before the forums are loaded with "game is too easy" threads again?

[kelavas]

/dies to the end boss to prove it.

At least you didnt cheese-complete that part.

Yes. Because not dying in Reaper 7 isn't something that happens. It's an end boss fight.

Probably was sarcasm but whatevs.

Edit: That was Symbiont's video/Nightmare from Orien.
Edit (2): All credit goes to Symbiont/Nightmare.

[kelavas]

I mean, they introduced Reaper mode. What's wrong with introducing a mode called Wraith where you get wraith xp (same trees as reaper) but significantly less wraith xp and no self healing ability from any abilities in the ED or scrolls/wands, and can only be solo'd. It would be from abilities like Barbarians get that uh, heck what's it called, blood strength? Temporary HP works too. Monks get fists of light, warlocks get enlightened spirit, etc etc. Paladins would acquire the weak a** loh effect, ya know. Clerics would be defined as useless as they cannot heal in this mode. That would make for an interesting mode. Definitely dandy.

or scale the reapers down a bit back and fourth and introduce reaper 1-15, 10 would be no self healing - but 11-15 would decrease the amount of healing amp every skull by 65 and practically make healers useless as introduced above in wraith mode.

I don't know. Half hammered.

[banjo174]

No, it's fine to say reaper mode is a joke, because it is. Firegoddess is having no issues getting to 156 reaper points and maxed out the trees and is running R10 easily. Let's not forget about other players such as Zantettsuken of Argonnessen or Nightmare from Orien (his old build) and plenty others on different servers. Barbarians have ridiculous power in the reaper mode. For those of you interested because of the Ravager enhancements - barbarians self healing in Reaper mode is a joke because it scales with melee power and isn't nerfed in reaper mode. I am currently trying to find ridiculous ways to overachieve R10 solo with the self healing possible. I am getting close and it isn't hard at all. They need to nerf that kinda power and it will creep barbarians away.

Reaper Mode.
Is.
A.
Joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qgVO7mI8J4&t=826s

So... Let me get this right. Your argument for reaper mode being too easy. Is to use someone else's video. Someone who is probably among the top 10 best players in ddo. Who soloes 1 of the easiest quests out there. In order to prove that reaper mode is to easy?

I guess its not easy enough for you to solo it?

[Amorais]

Let me stop you right there. Go ahead and click this link, (https://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Champion), and edumicate yourself on the difference between Hard and Elite. Go ahead and edumicate yourself on the difference between Elite and reaper 1 skull while you're at it.

I said *i* class it as the same difficulty as it sure feels like it. For the reasons I stated.

[Chai]

Yes. Because not dying in Reaper 7 isn't something that happens. It's an end boss fight.

Probably was sarcasm but whatevs.

Edit: That was Symbiont's video/Nightmare from Orien.
Edit (2): All credit goes to Symbiont/Nightmare.

If characters are still dying they dont need to nerf the class. A solid portion of that video was watching a res run.

[RogerP1er]

I solo because I never get a chance to do anything in a group. If I'm a rogue, everyone just runs through the trap anyway and just chugs 10 pots after. If I'm a healer, everyone can self heal. If I'm a tank, the speed 30 9th lifer is already 7 rooms ahead of you. If I'm a mage, I get to buff at the start, after that mobs die so quickly 60% of my spells are wasted.

All the barrels are intact at the end of the quest. That's an anathema to me. Optionals are skipped. extras missed, nobody talks in chat. Only a "hello" at the start of the dungeon and "ty 4 grp" at the end.

When I solo, every barrel is smashed, every optional (thats possible to do depending on build) is done. I can cast spells, I can hit stuff. I can spend more than 3 milliseconds at a chest seeing if the item I looted is ok for my build...I can spend time making room for loot if my backpack is full. I can backtrack and use shrines I missed. I can plan. I can make time to get a cuppa mid dungeon.

I group when I need to if I need quick xp but I really do not enjoy it one bit. Every now and then you luck out and get a nice n slow group. Or I can spend 2 nights a week grouping with friends (which I do).

That s exactly my position as well, iby the time i catch up with a group, they re already half way done.. finding them is confusing, and they often leave you behind, not caring unless you die,and by the time you re rescued, everything is finish and they re moving out to the next quest... i find soloing more to my pace, and i dont have to worry if i miss anything as i m the one moving along..