thoughts on the Best filligree for an assassin

[Saekee]

It seems like a couple of the sets are geared towards assassins, such as the Long Shadow and Treachery. I think those are traps and not worth the nigh-impossibility of getting them.

Instead, I think the best bet would be to load up on any filigree that offers melee power. Sneak damage scales 150% with melee power; that is the DPS of an assassin. Ideally, it would be a 'rare' filigree for the extra amount, such as The Long Shadow: 3 melee power plus 2 rare MP bonus=5 melee power.

Next, there are some that have low-hanging fruit for melee power with two filigree in the set, so that might be an easier way to grab another 5 melee power as well as whatever the extra filigree offers (such as bonuses on damage or an ability score). The following offer a set bonus of two filligree for 5 melee power as well as a 'rare' melee power filligree for 5 mp:

• Long shadow
• Sucker Punch
• One against Many
• Treachery

If you are able to get four rare filligree for 5 melee power from each of these sets and then whatever other three to complement them in the set (ideally a boost to Assassinate ability like Dex), then you could conceivably have 35 melee power on your weapon. That is more than a ToEE full set mythic boosted from rare Shrooms (24 max) but only on ONE WEAPON.

Thoughts?

[Annex]

Your observation makes much sense, Saekee San. I am not seeing any 4+3 or 5+2 set bonus that would outperform a 2+2+2+1 set bonus (+3 Dexterity and +35 Melee Power) for sheer damage output. A couple of the 2+2+3 set bonuses look interesting but I think 2+2+2+1 would still top out on damage. Even with Common Filigrees such a weapon would offer +27 Melee Power. That's quite the damage boost for a Level 21 weapon!

Some of the other set bonuses offer interesting possibilities for a Cat Burglar...urrr...Assassin, but only as swap items. For example, the -20% trap damage bonus would make a useful swap for those annoying traps with the box on the far side.

One thing I just learned from reading the Wiki--when fighting with two weapons, Armor Piercing from a Thunderforged weapon apparently applies to _both_ weapons. That makes moving a Thunderforged Dagger with Dragon's Edge from the on hand to the off hand much less problematic to make room for Agony or an Epic Assassin's Kiss or whatever.

I am very curious to know just how often and where Filigrees will drop. That question went unanswered in the main thread.

[Saekee]

Your observation makes much sense, Saekee San. I am not seeing any 4+3 or 5+2 set bonus that would outperform a 2+2+2+1 set bonus (+3 Dexterity and +35 Melee Power) for sheer damage output. A couple of the 2+2+3 set bonuses look interesting but I think 2+2+2+1 would still top out on damage. Even with Common Filigrees such a weapon would offer +27 Melee Power. That's quite the damage boost for a Level 21 weapon!

Some of the other set bonuses offer interesting possibilities for a Cat Burglar...urrr...Assassin, but only as swap items. For example, the -20% trap damage bonus would make a useful swap for those annoying traps with the box on the far side.

One thing I just learned from reading the Wiki--when fighting with two weapons, Armor Piercing from a Thunderforged weapon apparently applies to _both_ weapons. That makes moving a Thunderforged Dagger with Dragon's Edge from the on hand to the off hand much less problematic to make room for Agony or an Epic Assassin's Kiss or whatever.

I am very curious to know just how often and where Filigrees will drop. That question went unanswered in the main thread.

Great! Yes, this can really load up melee power. With 7 filigree you can conceivably reach 35 melee power. I have an Epic Assassin's Kiss with a 4 melee power boost. So I could conceivably load that weapon up to a 39 melee power. That would be insane with its improved crit multi.

I am curious about the filigree drops etc but the big challenge will probably be getting those boosted ones. Even without the rare unboosted filigree, with the sets you can still pull in 5+5+5, and then the other 4 with 3 each, for 12+15=27 MP! (edit: Annex already did this math...)

[Saekee]

I am not sure what would be the best dagger to use.
Two daggers (Epic Dice and Pain) have Sovereign Vorpal which averages 300 damage every 20 hits; that is pretty solid. The extra multiplier from Assassin's Kiss would add maybe 75-100 damage extra on crits, which x6 (15-20) is very powerful. The Drow Dagger adds an extra range boost so on 14 (edit: 13) you would get a x4 multiplier extra; not quite as good as the Kiss (edit: as good as Kiss) but usable at low level (21) minimum for sentient (and it looks rather nice...).

Pain has Improved Deception as does Assassin's Kiss...Pain adds stacks of vulnerable which is diffficult to evaluate but probably would be the best for bosses and would also function against enemies in which sneak does not always proc as well as its sovereign vorpal (I know there are lots of ways to bypass sneak and crit resistance but let's face it, gameplay does not always happen that way...)

I think it is really between these three; one really could not go wrong depending on interests. But they should be mythic boosted too. As I mentioned here or elsewhere, I managed to pull a AK with +4 mythic, so that will probably be my weapon. It is also nice that you can use it at level 26 so a bit more useful for ER runs; Drow dagger is best in this regard; Pain is probably best for raids.

The other lowby daggers are just not good enough; level 21 means Blade of the High Priestess--it is solid in its own right in that you can bewilder then paralyze, or con drain and snuff out there life force, but these are not the best strategies.

I cannot evaluate the Spectral Dagger since I do not know its upper level stats. That could be nice too.

Are my calcs off? Any thoughts?

Pain, the Half of Whole
Dagger
7 [W]
19-20/x2

• Fetters of Unreality This weapon is cruel and deadly, and leaves behind wounds that affect both the body and the soul. This weapon has a chance to inflict multiple stacks of Vulnerable.
• Improved Deception
• Sovereign Vorpal
• Insightful Assassinate +4
• Purple Augment Slot
• Red Augment Slot

[Vish]

Stepping sideways,

This looks like a good breakdown for melee,
Looks good for my monk
He's ninja, not assassin tho...

I complained set bonuses didn't have enough mp
Should be doubled or tripled
I mean, sets
Make them worth having,
And not piecemealing to get better,
It's like multiclass better than pure
Oh well, I can hope anyways

Thanks for breakdown

[Annex]

*strolls through her walk in closet*

L28 Spectral Dagger
Base Damage Rating 28.05
Damage: (17-34) 5.50[1d4] + 12 Pierce, Magic
Critical Roll: (10%/34-68) 19-20 / x2
+12 Enhancement Bonus
Ghostbane 8 (8d10 bane damage versus Incorporeal monsters)
Evil Outsider Bane 8 (*d10 bane damage versus Evil Outsiders)
Superior Vorpal (2,500 Hit Point threshold)
Crushing 19 (19d6 Force Damage on each Critical Hit)

Those stats come from the Thrower but the L4, L12, and L20 Daggers and Throwers share the same stats, so I presume the L28 versions do as well.

In my opinion, Spectral Daggers suffer from a serious flaw--they cannot bypass Damage Reduction on Demons, Devils, and many Undead, nor can they take an Augment. They perform well in many circumstances and obviously exist to kill Reapers, but overall they're only kinda okay. They work great against Oozes!

Epic Assassin's Kiss, Epic Dice, and Epic Pain all bring interesting things to the table.

Epic Assassin's Kiss makes the most sense for Epic leveling since it works for 4 levels.

Epic Pain probably makes the most sense for hard stuff since in stacks Vulnerable on Bosses and that helps everyone in a group inflict more damage. It lacks Armor Piercing but who cares--that can come from an off-hand weapon or crafted item. Improved Deception means lots more sneak damage. The two Augment slots allow for lots of options--break Damage Reduction, drain Levels, drop Rocks, whatever.

Epic Dice includes more sneak damage and Greater Maiming. That strikes me as working better against weaker monsters. It lacks Improved Deception but that could come from another source. You can get better Armor Piercing from other sources making that a potentially wasted attribute.

I have not decided upon a weapon for Epic go rounds. None of the choices appeal to me. Agony probably makes the most sense since it works from L23 on but can I actually get my hands on one? Probably not.

[Saekee]

*strolls through her walk in closet*

L28 Spectral Dagger
Base Damage Rating 28.05
Damage: (17-34) 5.50[1d4] + 12 Pierce, Magic
Critical Roll: (10%/34-68) 19-20 / x2
+12 Enhancement Bonus
Ghostbane 8 (8d10 bane damage versus Incorporeal monsters)
Evil Outsider Bane 8 (*d10 bane damage versus Evil Outsiders)
Superior Vorpal (2,500 Hit Point threshold)
Crushing 19 (19d6 Force Damage on each Critical Hit)

Those stats come from the Thrower but the L4, L12, and L20 Daggers and Throwers share the same stats, so I presume the L28 versions do as well.

In my opinion, Spectral Daggers suffer from a serious flaw--they cannot bypass Damage Reduction on Demons, Devils, and many Undead, nor can they take an Augment. They perform well in many circumstances and obviously exist to kill Reapers, but overall they're only kinda okay. They work great against Oozes!

Epic Assassin's Kiss, Epic Dice, and Epic Pain all bring interesting things to the table.

Epic Assassin's Kiss makes the most sense for Epic leveling since it works for 4 levels.

Epic Pain probably makes the most sense for hard stuff since in stacks Vulnerable on Bosses and that helps everyone in a group inflict more damage. It lacks Armor Piercing but who cares--that can come from an off-hand weapon or crafted item. Improved Deception means lots more sneak damage. The two Augment slots allow for lots of options--break Damage Reduction, drain Levels, drop Rocks, whatever.

Epic Dice includes more sneak damage and Greater Maiming. That strikes me as working better against weaker monsters. It lacks Improved Deception but that could come from another source. You can get better Armor Piercing from other sources making that a potentially wasted attribute.

I have not decided upon a weapon for Epic go rounds. None of the choices appeal to me. Agony probably makes the most sense since it works from L23 on but can I actually get my hands on one? Probably not.

If you want to do one just for lots of epic cycles, then I would do the Drow Dagger if you can get it. You can always unslot it later.

[Saekee]

Well...loot gods really love me...everything I wanted. Check out its crit profile in dropdown (13-20, not 14-20):

[Annex]

Congratulations! I plan on looking for one of those this coming weekend since it really is the obvious choice for leveling a Sentient Gem.

I had some luck as well. On Thanksgiving I finally found a Shard of the Golden Guile. It only took 19 Epic go rounds.

[Saekee]

Congratulations! I plan on looking for one of those this coming weekend since it really is the obvious choice for leveling a Sentient Gem.

I had some luck as well. On Thanksgiving I finally found a Shard of the Golden Guile. It only took 19 Epic go rounds.

you got the shard! whoot congratz!

[Dreppo]

I'm thinking of making one sentient weapon that will focus on raising assassinate DC (by 3-4 points, 4 being the max possible). That will probably go onto the raid dagger "Pain, the Half of Whole" which gives +4 insightful assassinate. (As a side note I wonder if +4 insightful assassinate will actually give more than +3 insightful assassinate...)

And then a different sentient weapon that will focus on melee power. This will be used for bosses, or cases where most of the mobs are immune to assassinate, or cases where I can assassinate reliably even with lower DCs. I haven't thought about what weapon that will go onto.

[blerkington]

I'm thinking of making one sentient weapon that will focus on raising assassinate DC (by 3-4 points, 4 being the max possible). That will probably go onto the raid dagger "Pain, the Half of Whole" which gives +4 insightful assassinate. (As a side note I wonder if +4 insightful assassinate will actually give more than +3 insightful assassinate...)

And then a different sentient weapon that will focus on melee power. This will be used for bosses, or cases where most of the mobs are immune to assassinate, or cases where I can assassinate reliably even with lower DCs. I haven't thought about what weapon that will go onto.

That seems like a good approach.

My assassinate DC boosts are already currently on weapons which I swap in when needed. When I get another point of DEX from somewhere else I could shelve the LGS air weapon for +2 exceptional and use sentient instead.

I would like to have those boosts on non weapon gear, but haven't been able to find a good solution for getting them there. Unfortunately the new assassination gloves have a conflict with the place I slot healing amp, doublestrike and insightful DEX, which is very problematic.

So I may just have to accept I won't be able to use the boost from new gear and hope a solution opens up as more gear is added in future updates.

Another issue is that our better sentient weapon candidates are a bit limited when it comes to breaking DR.

Thanks.

[Saekee]

thread needs updating—new lama preview 3

[Saekee]

we got our wish which was to include level 20 weapons for sentience. So now three more assassin weapons are in the horizon: EMG, ePhiarlan Spy Dagger, Sacrificial Dagger.

Some changes to filigree. There is an obscene rare set that gives 100 MP for 10 sec on action boosts...Then they added some scaling acid damage in a decent set at 3 filigree but I am not sure if the math holds up to the acid damage over 5 melee power.

Thoughts? I agree that having a sentient weapon that is swapped only for assassinate could be a great idea, but making two of these requires a considerable investment.

[Saekee]

It seems like a couple of the sets are geared towards assassins, such as the Long Shadow and Treachery. I think those are traps and not worth the nigh-impossibility of getting them.

Instead, I think the best bet would be to load up on any filigree that offers melee power. Sneak damage scales 150% with melee power; that is the DPS of an assassin. Ideally, it would be a 'rare' filigree for the extra amount, such as The Long Shadow: 3 melee power plus 2 rare MP bonus=5 melee power.

Next, there are some that have low-hanging fruit for melee power with two filigree in the set, so that might be an easier way to grab another 5 melee power as well as whatever the extra filigree offers (such as bonuses on damage or an ability score). The following offer a set bonus of two filligree for 5 melee power as well as a 'rare' melee power filligree for 5 mp:

• Long shadow
• Sucker Punch
• One against Many
• Treachery

If you are able to get four rare filligree for 5 melee power from each of these sets and then whatever other three to complement them in the set (ideally a boost to Assassinate ability like Dex), then you could conceivably have 35 melee power on your weapon. That is more than a ToEE full set mythic boosted from rare Shrooms (24 max) but only on ONE WEAPON.

Thoughts?

Of the two-set bonuses that were giving 5 MP, only Long Shadow was nerfed to 3 MP. Sucker Punch, One Against Many and Treachery all give 5 MP in a two set. So there is no flexibility there; for the max melee power you need to combine those.

Next, Prowess, a rare set, gives a burst of insane amounts of melee power (100) for 10 seconds. That would be devastatingly awesome for a assassin burst damage. But then, it is rare; otherwise, if that remains, that is the best. I would not even bother attempting it TBH.

Long Shadow's three piece set offers Assassin Sentience ("Melee and Missile attacks deal an additional 4d6 +1d6 per character epic level in acid damage. This effect will not stack with other Sentience weapon procs.")

To do this Sentience bonus means giving up 2 MP (for the lower set bonus) plus 5 melee power (from the last rare filigree). that is a loss of 7 potential melee power. I think it is not worth it. But if you want the acid damage, it is not a bad option, especially if you can come up with acid vulnerability in your mainhand or some other way.

[Saekee]

I'm thinking of making one sentient weapon that will focus on raising assassinate DC (by 3-4 points, 4 being the max possible). That will probably go onto the raid dagger "Pain, the Half of Whole" which gives +4 insightful assassinate. (As a side note I wonder if +4 insightful assassinate will actually give more than +3 insightful assassinate...)

And then a different sentient weapon that will focus on melee power. This will be used for bosses, or cases where most of the mobs are immune to assassinate, or cases where I can assassinate reliably even with lower DCs. I haven't thought about what weapon that will go onto.

was perusing the thread now that I can set foot in Ravenloft (at level 20 lol post ER). Clearly there are easy farms—the nanny chest in the first quest is a fast run up two flights and you can pull filigree from it. I already pulled a couple and pukled a few just wondering around the area.

I no longer feel that getting filigree will be a big issue. Already the ASAH has some and that is even in the face of initial player hording. The real challenge will be leveling the weapons. I got mine up 2 or 3 levels by burning some recent stuff and older gear (I got a little carried away TBH but felt good).

Since the best things about Pain are 1) assassinate boost 2)vulnerable proc 3) improved deception, I think it makes a great offhand weapon. Sentients must stay in the mainhand. So I can really focus just on the Drow Dagger and use eKiss or some other in the offhand.

One could do a ToEE set still, maybe make ot acid and pair it with the acid damage of the 3pc filigree set (then you add acid vulnerability from ToEE); the gear sets in Ravenloft are very good but might be a PITA to build around. I do not have an ‘endgame’ gearset yet so will need to see how things evolve.

[Dreppo]

In the third Lammania preview, and I assume it went live this way, they neutered Pain by removing the Insightful Assassinate +4. (They replaced it with Deception +17 which is a joke because we'll already have Decpetion +16 or +17 from gear.)

On the one hand, I support them not putting bonuses to assassinate on weapons, because it's much better to get this from gear and be able to freely switch weapons. That said, I was probably going to use Pain anyway, since it was "one more" Insightful Assassinate than you can get currently from Cannith crafting, and also I was finding it difficult to fit it in on gear (only available on gloves and trinkets) and still qualify for some of the juicy set bonuses. Now with this change to Pain I doubt I will use either of the raid daggers at all.

[Saekee]

In the third Lammania preview, and I assume it went live this way, they neutered Pain by removing the Insightful Assassinate +4. (They replaced it with Deception +17 which is a joke because we'll already have Decpetion +16 or +17 from gear.)

On the one hand, I support them not putting bonuses to assassinate on weapons, because it's much better to get this from gear and be able to freely switch weapons. That said, I was probably going to use Pain anyway, since it was "one more" Insightful Assassinate than you can get currently from Cannith crafting, and also I was finding it difficult to fit it in on gear (only available on gloves and trinkets) and still qualify for some of the juicy set bonuses. Now with this change to Pain I doubt I will use either of the raid daggers at all.

Great points! I still feel like Pain should be an offhand boss beater—vulnerability thingy that I assume will stack with TF? Similarly, eKiss is great offhand due to its improved deception. Since sentients can’t go in the offhand, I wouldn’t put it on them.

Making multiple sentients is a lot of work...if it is just to boost assassinate I would put it on a low level weapon with full DR bypass (I am pretty certain that failure to break DR blocks an assassinate). That does not leave a lot of options—maybe the right Cormyrian? One can put an augment in eSpy dagger but I am still trying to get the seal for it. Thoughts?

[blerkington]

After farming the content intensively and ransacking my mules for sentient weapon food, I finished upgrading my sentient gem today.

In the end I went with 4 treachery and 3 long shadow rare filigrees for two set bonuses. That gives 2 DC, 2 DEX, 20 MP, 1 extra SA die and the acid damage and some assorted little bonuses. It seemed like a good compromise between boosting my DC and weapon damage.

I'm sure most of you have already thought of this, but the morninglord kukris and light maces make really nice undead beaters for when daggers aren't your best choice for breaking DR. The ones you buy with totems are BTC but the ones from chests are BTA.

People on Khyber have been extremely cooperative about sharing loot and trading filigrees, so if any of them happen to see this I'd like to say thanks. Assembling the rare filigrees you want is actually not that hard when everyone has a helpful attitude about it.

Thanks.

[Saekee]

After farming the content intensively and ransacking my mules for sentient weapon food, I finished upgrading my sentient gem today.

In the end I went with 4 treachery and 3 long shadow rare filigrees for two set bonuses. That gives 2 DC, 2 DEX, 20 MP, 1 extra SA die and the acid damage and some assorted little bonuses. It seemed like a good compromise between boosting my DC and weapon damage.

I'm sure most of you have already thought of this, but the morninglord kukris and light maces make really nice undead beaters for when daggers aren't your best choice for breaking DR. The ones you buy with totems are BTC but the ones from chests are BTA.

People on Khyber have been extremely cooperative about sharing loot and trading filigrees, so if any of them happen to see this I'd like to say thanks. Assembling the rare filigrees you want is actually not that hard when everyone has a helpful attitude about it.

Thanks.

wow! I find leveling it is taking forever.


Thankfully I had a stack of TF ingots that really helped. I have 20 mp on it and a fifth slot open; I plan to put another 15 mp in it still and +3 dex total. A kind guildie passed me one filigree; 1 I pulled & 2 I bought on the ASAH. It has been awesome having the extra MP; this really buffs assassins, much needed.

Just made an Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger too for offhand 20-25.