thoughts on the Best filligree for an assassin

[blerkington]

wow! I find leveling it is taking forever.

Thankfully I had a stack of TF ingots that really helped. I have 20 mp on it and a fifth slot open; I plan to put another 15 mp in it still and +3 dex total. A kind guildie passed me one filigree; 1 I pulled & 2 I bought on the ASAH. It has been awesome having the extra MP; this really buffs assassins, much needed.

Just made an Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger too for offhand 20-25.

The increased melee power is very nice. My main's is now sitting at 121 (not counting the bonus from measure) at cap in SD due to the dagger and a bunch of boosts from reaper Slaver blanks and his armour. I'm sure there are people running around with more than that, but it's a high point for my character as a rogue and the increase made a noticeable difference to damage output along with the high base damage of the morninglord weapons too.

The spy dagger is a nice weapon despite its lowish base damage and issues with DR breaking. I slotted mine with neg levelling augments and still carry them, although I tend to use a Salt weapon (now that I've been able to make one) paired with a Tier 2 TF blinding/paralysis, when needed. The TF weapon is interesting because it causes blindness on the first strike. It helps if you're caught on cooldown for shiv and bluff.

Unlocking those last two slots on the sentient gem meant I had to be quite ruthless about feeding it and now my mules are pretty threadbare. I also fed some raid gear into it that I'd been hoarding for no good reason other than it was hard to get. Having the gem on a BTA weapon made it possible to pass it over to an alt for a purge of his inventory too. But it does mean I have nothing left to put into the sentient gem for this alt, so I will have to start building up a supply of high level items again.

Anyway, I think your approach to ignoring the sets is an interesting one and reminds me of a couple of DC casters I know who are just slotting as many augments for their main stat as possible. If I become less happy with how my weapon is set up I might give your idea a try. The filigrees are dropping in value every day so I think before long only the rare ones will be worth anything at all. I'm sure as you find other rare ones for trade or sale you'll be able to fill in your collection of rares before long at all.

Thanks.

[Saekee]

The increased melee power is very nice. My main's is now sitting at 121 (not counting the bonus from measure) at cap in SD due to the dagger and a bunch of boosts from reaper Slaver blanks and his armour. I'm sure there are people running around with more than that, but it's a high point for my character as a rogue and the increase made a noticeable difference to damage output along with the high base damage of the morninglord weapons too.

The spy dagger is a nice weapon despite its lowish base damage and issues with DR breaking. I slotted mine with neg levelling augments and still carry them, although I tend to use a Salt weapon (now that I've been able to make one) paired with a Tier 2 TF blinding/paralysis, when needed. The TF weapon is interesting because it causes blindness on the first strike. It helps if you're caught on cooldown for shiv and bluff.

Unlocking those last two slots on the sentient gem meant I had to be quite ruthless about feeding it and now my mules are pretty threadbare. I also fed some raid gear into it that I'd been hoarding for no good reason other than it was hard to get. Having the gem on a BTA weapon made it possible to pass it over to an alt for a purge of his inventory too. But it does mean I have nothing left to put into the sentient gem for this alt, so I will have to start building up a supply of high level items again.

Anyway, I think your approach to ignoring the sets is an interesting one and reminds me of a couple of DC casters I know who are just slotting as many augments for their main stat as possible. If I become less happy with how my weapon is set up I might give your idea a try. The filigrees are dropping in value every day so I think before long only the rare ones will be worth anything at all. I'm sure as you find other rare ones for trade or sale you'll be able to fill in your collection of rares before long at all.

Thanks.

with MP that high, I think you come ahead adding that 1d6 sneak. But MP boosts weapon damage too...I made the drow dagger sentient so that will eventually total 37 MP+ expanded crit range at level 21!

I think that when I tr, I will go lawful good and twist blessed blades. (I do not have litany trinket.) I did add the alignment bypass in the spy dagger; I think it is great from 20-25 in which the paralyzing still sometimes procs plusthe Improved Deception—then I swap it with eKiss til cap.

Don’t forget to add improved feint—it has revolutionized assassin strength.

[kendo]

of the various daggers mentioned in this thread, I have Dice, Agony and Drow weapon master. what would be the best to make sentient ? one advantage of Dice is that it is bound to account, so I could pass it around to alts to help boost the level. as I understand it, I could make the Dice sentient, pass it around to build up the XP of the jewel and then pull it out and put it in the final weapon choice

side question, once I decide on the choice for sentient weapon, what would make the best offhand weapon to pair with it?

I don't run much reaper because I still need to build up some better gear and past lives but am aiming for elite and low level reaper, if that makes a difference on which weapon to use. that's also why I was leaning towards Agony or Drow dagger for now, would be more useful getting the weapon at 21 or 23 for running past lives

many thanks for any advice folks can pass along

[Saekee]

of the various daggers mentioned in this thread, I have Dice, Agony and Drow weapon master. what would be the best to make sentient ? one advantage of Dice is that it is bound to account, so I could pass it around to alts to help boost the level. as I understand it, I could make the Dice sentient, pass it around to build up the XP of the jewel and then pull it out and put it in the final weapon choice

side question, once I decide on the choice for sentient weapon, what would make the best offhand weapon to pair with it?

I don't run much reaper because I still need to build up some better gear and past lives but am aiming for elite and low level reaper, if that makes a difference on which weapon to use. that's also why I was leaning towards Agony or Drow dagger for now, would be more useful getting the weapon at 21 or 23 for running past lives

many thanks for any advice folks can pass along

I am unsure of BtA stuff since I only play one character, plus a challenge farmer.

I chose the drow dagger (already with a small mythic boost) since I plan many epic reincarnations in the future. Its expanded threat range means that its strength improves as my character’s other stats improve at higher levels—ability scores, seeker, MP etc since the overall damage from the expanded threat increases. The Drow dagger suffers from DR breaking, so on my next TR I plan to go Lawful Good and twist Blessed Blades from DC.

A weapon with improved deception is ideal in the offhand but with the feat Improved Feint & shiv, it is not as necessary. It is still very helpful. I have Epic Phiarlan dagger there from 20-25 (the improved paralysis is still effective in lower epics too); then Epic Kiss from 26-cap with its extra multiplier & also improved deception. For bosses, ideally we add stacks of vulnerable so swap the offhand with TF vulnerable (if no one else has). The raid dagger has its own vulnerable which I assume stacks, although I will probably never pull it as I do not raid much.

For me, the ideal is drow dagger until Pain, then a buffed Sentient version of Pain coupled with a TF or LGS weapon. I do not expect to ever get there but the journey is so much easier with a jacked-up Drow dagger!

[Saekee]

It seems like a couple of the sets are geared towards assassins, such as the Long Shadow and Treachery. I think those are traps and not worth the nigh-impossibility of getting them.

Instead, I think the best bet would be to load up on any filigree that offers melee power. Sneak damage scales 150% with melee power; that is the DPS of an assassin. Ideally, it would be a 'rare' filigree for the extra amount, such as The Long Shadow: 3 melee power plus 2 rare MP bonus=5 melee power.

Next, there are some that have low-hanging fruit for melee power with two filigree in the set, so that might be an easier way to grab another 5 melee power as well as whatever the extra filigree offers (such as bonuses on damage or an ability score). The following offer a set bonus of two filligree for 5 melee power as well as a 'rare' melee power filligree for 5 mp:

• Long shadow
• Sucker Punch
• One against Many
• Treachery

If you are able to get four rare filligree for 5 melee power from each of these sets and then whatever other three to complement them in the set (ideally a boost to Assassinate ability like Dex), then you could conceivably have 35 melee power on your weapon. That is more than a ToEE full set mythic boosted from rare Shrooms (24 max) but only on ONE WEAPON.

Thoughts?

Time to update this. With the new filigree here:
Treachery/Twilight's Cloak: +2 Dexterity (Rare: +4 Physical Resistance Rating)
Sucker Punch/One Against Many: +2 Strength (Rare: +4 Melee Power)

[Zretch]

I think this overlooks Prowess. 50% uptime on 75 melee power is 37.5. That requires 5 slots, leaving 3 remaining (try to have one of them be melee power rare). Put in a Treachery 2 piece (melee power rare and threat reduction rare) for 10 melee power. Add in one other melee power rare and that's 20 standing melee power with a 95 melee power burst for 10 seconds of every 20 while your action boosts hold out.

If you don't use action boosts, then it seems like a good approach. If you do, Prowess + 2 Treachery + 1 random melee power rare worked best for me.

[Saekee]

I think this overlooks Prowess. 50% uptime on 75 melee power is 37.5. That requires 5 slots, leaving 3 remaining (try to have one of them be melee power rare). Put in a Treachery 2 piece (melee power rare and threat reduction rare) for 10 melee power. Add in one other melee power rare and that's 20 standing melee power with a 95 melee power burst for 10 seconds of every 20 while your action boosts hold out.

If you don't use action boosts, then it seems like a good approach. If you do, Prowess + 2 Treachery + 1 random melee power rare worked best for me.

hi Zretch, I agree with your thinking--if someone is going the action boost route (I know shadow_jumper advocates it for endgame with a set group), then that is the way. However, in most of my personal playstyle, action boosts are only a minor part of it.
With 8 slots potential now AND having one able to be doubled up, the following setup is now possible:

• Treachery/Twilight's cloak double: +2 Dexterity
• sucker punch/one against many: +2 Strength rare with +4 MP
• Sucker punch Melee rare: +5 MP, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP
• treachery MP rare: +5 MP, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP
• One against many: +5 MP rare, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP
• The Long shadow: +1 Dex
• The Long shadow: +5 MP rare, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP

we can then add an 8th filigree; this can be assassin's sentience for the acid damage (or some other)

That totals 44 MP at all times and +3 Dexterity plus assassin's sentience

It also assumes getting some rare double filigree and also having 8 slots filled (this will not happen with me anytime soon)...So with 20 standing melee power in the prowess set, plus 95 burst in 10 seconds of the action boost means that the overall MP during an action boost will be only a little less than having the 44 MP for the entire 20 seconds. The big difference will be in having more action boosts via the Prowess set.

[Bolo_Grubb]

I went with a mi of offense and defense,

I use a 4 piece Treachery Set and a 4 piece City's Beacon set.

The City beacon's set bonus procs for me all the time, that is a huge amount of Defense, + 20 MRR, +20 PRR and most important 10 second displacement. I have Str (rare), Fortification (rare), Melee power (rare), and Intelligence (rare).


The Treachery set I use Melee Power (rare), Intelligence (rare), Dex (rare), and Critical Confirmation (rare).

I am not sure what my Melee power is at cap, I am in the middle of a TR.

[Zretch]

hi Zretch, I agree with your thinking--if someone is going the action boost route (I know shadow_jumper advocates it for endgame with a set group), then that is the way. However, in most of my personal playstyle, action boosts are only a minor part of it.
With 8 slots potential now AND having one able to be doubled up, the following setup is now possible:

• Treachery/Twilight's cloak double: +2 Dexterity
• sucker punch/one against many: +2 Strength rare with +4 MP
• Sucker punch Melee rare: +5 MP, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP
• treachery MP rare: +5 MP, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP
• One against many: +5 MP rare, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP
• The Long shadow: +1 Dex
• The Long shadow: +5 MP rare, +5 set bonus; total, +10 MP

we can then add an 8th filigree; this can be assassin's sentience for the acid damage (or some other)

That totals 44 MP at all times and +3 Dexterity plus assassin's sentience

It also assumes getting some rare double filigree and also having 8 slots filled (this will not happen with me anytime soon)...So with 20 standing melee power in the prowess set, plus 95 burst in 10 seconds of the action boost means that the overall MP during an action boost will be only a little less than having the 44 MP for the entire 20 seconds. The big difference will be in having more action boosts via the Prowess set.

Well, if you're including the new, as of yet unreleased filagrees....

Prowess + OaM/SP dual rare + OaM MP rare + SP dual rare is 29 standing MP, 104 spike MP.

Something to consider with action boosts is that the haste action boost will actually give you 30% more sneak attacks, so that's a multiplier on top of the melee power boost to your sneak attacks. Even if you're going Shadowdancer as your core ED, you can twist in Haste Boost from LD for a tier 3 twist slot. Those extra sneak attacks for 20 seconds really add up when you need to rush something down, and the fact that they multiply the impact of the huge melee power spike for the first 10 seconds is icing.

[Vish]

I just use prowess,
I run in shadowdancer,
And all my twists are from ld
I just melee stuff to death
Flank fighting of course
Even tho my front fighting is pretty good too

[Saekee]

Well, if you're including the new, as of yet unreleased filagrees....

Prowess + OaM/SP dual rare + OaM MP rare + SP dual rare is 29 standing MP, 104 spike MP.

Something to consider with action boosts is that the haste action boost will actually give you 30% more sneak attacks, so that's a multiplier on top of the melee power boost to your sneak attacks. Even if you're going Shadowdancer as your core ED, you can twist in Haste Boost from LD for a tier 3 twist slot. Those extra sneak attacks for 20 seconds really add up when you need to rush something down, and the fact that they multiply the impact of the huge melee power spike for the first 10 seconds is icing.

my main experience with assassins is that I have never had a melee combat last that long—either the mob dies or it decides to whack me—at which I need to duck out and heal...

Building around MP from action boosts is interesting & probably works best in strong groups like shadow_jumper’s. Considering that MtF expires in 10 seconds, it may be better to pull out of combat & return to sneak after 7-8 seconds. This enables another assassinate as well. So it leaves just red named targets as the big DPS beatdown at best; everything else can now be assassinated, sadly.

edit: since it costs 40K to get 8th slot, & it is not really needed thanks to the new combo filigree, the best setup might be a swap weapon with 40K sentient for Prowess & boosts.

[Zretch]

my main experience with assassins is that I have never had a melee combat last that long—either the mob dies or it decides to whack me—at which I need to duck out and heal...

Building around MP from action boosts is interesting & probably works best in strong groups like shadow_jumper’s. Considering that MtF expires in 10 seconds, it may be better to pull out of combat & return to sneak after 7-8 seconds. This enables another assassinate as well. So it leaves just red named targets as the big DPS beatdown at best; everything else can now be assassinated, sadly.

edit: since it costs 40K to get 8th slot, & it is not really needed thanks to the new combo filigree, the best setup might be a swap weapon with 40K sentient for Prowess & boosts.

YMMV. Against trash, I normally don't bother with action boosts, blitz, etc. For normal questing, I prefer being in Shadowdancer and an "all melee power" weapon would work great. For raiding, however, my job is boss DPS, and those fights last through multiple haste boosts, so you get that prowess bump multiple times in a fight.

I think either option is a good one, and a swap with prowess on it would work great if you had duplicates of your weapon.

[Saekee]

YMMV. Against trash, I normally don't bother with action boosts, blitz, etc. For normal questing, I prefer being in Shadowdancer and an "all melee power" weapon would work great. For raiding, however, my job is boss DPS, and those fights last through multiple haste boosts, so you get that prowess bump multiple times in a fight.

I think either option is a good one, and a swap with prowess on it would work great if you had duplicates of your weapon.

hmmn looking like the Prowess nerf is pushing things hard the other way

[Shadow_Jumper]

YMMV. Against trash, I normally don't bother with action boosts, blitz, etc. For normal questing, I prefer being in Shadowdancer and an "all melee power" weapon would work great. For raiding, however, my job is boss DPS, and those fights last through multiple haste boosts, so you get that prowess bump multiple times in a fight.

I think either option is a good one, and a swap with prowess on it would work great if you had duplicates of your weapon.

An "All Melee Power" sentient stick is just that. Only Melee Power.

A prowess stick is still going to have the higher average MP, while only requiring one MP Filigree for the set. The gains of a Prowess set is going to be +15 MP(average), AND +11 PRR, +2 ABs over any other sentient weapon setup you could make.

It is still the best choice, both offensively and defensively

[blerkington]

An "All Melee Power" sentient stick is just that. Only Melee Power.

You could do this with four two piece sets, where each set includes one melee power filigree, one other bonus, and a set bonus for melee power. So a weapon with eight slots would give 40 static MP as well as four other effects.

I'm not going to argue that Prowess isn't the best choice especially for people running in LD. But you can get a few miscellaneous effects by doing four two piece sets instead of just sticking eight unrelated melee power filigrees into your weapon.

Thanks.

[Shadow_Jumper]

I'm not going to argue that Prowess isn't the best choice especially for people running in LD. But you can get a few miscellaneous effects by doing four two piece sets instead of just sticking eight unrelated melee power filigrees into your weapon.

Hadn't thought about that. Probably the best option to go if people don't want prowess.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Heyo all.

Hasn’t been much happening on this thread, so I thought I would update it with my filigree plans.

After having the One Against Many/Sucker Punch (Rare) raid filigree slotted in my weapon for a bit it’s probably definitely the route I’m going to stay. (Though I did unslot it and sell it on the SE as soon as I realized it was unbound).

Filigree Set looked like:

5 pc Prowess :
MP rare
PRR rare
Dex rare
A&D rare
MRR or Crit confirmation rare

2pc set of:
One Against Many/Sucker Punch Str rare
One against many MP rare
Sucker punch MP rare

As a side note, Sharn is coming out early spring and I would be prepared to expect a sentient slot raise of 1 or 2. Once that happens I’m planning on reslotting treachery 2 pc set of MP/Threat Reduction.

For the moment tho, sitting at 177 MP before blitz/prowess inside reaper is feeling super nice.

[0ldschool]

You could do this with four two piece sets, where each set includes one melee power filigree, one other bonus, and a set bonus for melee power. So a weapon with eight slots would give 40 static MP as well as four other effects.

I'm not going to argue that Prowess isn't the best choice especially for people running in LD. But you can get a few miscellaneous effects by doing four two piece sets instead of just sticking eight unrelated melee power filigrees into your weapon.

Thanks.

Necro, because I'm going through this same exercise right now as my TWF dagger assassin hits Epics, and this is a good thread. I believe that Saekee's logic is still sound. I was looking into this yesterday, and I don't think I can do better overall with 8 slots than the following (if I had the filigrees).

2 piece Treachery (DEX & MP)
2 piece Long Shadow (DEX & MP)
2 piece Sucker Punch (DEX & MP)
2 piece One Against Many (DEX & MP)

Assuming all rares, that is +4 DEX, +40 MP, and a little +8 PRR bonus. As important as DEX is to this toon, I don't think anything else realistically competes.

The math on total filigrees has changed, of course, with minor artifacts, but the basic logic still holds. If I had 3 more slots, I'd put in Prowess or Next Fall for +10 MP, DEX +1, and whatever else.

[Saekee]

Necro, because I'm going through this same exercise right now as my TWF dagger assassin hits Epics, and this is a good thread. I believe that Saekee's logic is still sound. I was looking into this yesterday, and I don't think I can do better overall with 8 slots than the following (if I had the filigrees).

2 piece Treachery (DEX & MP)
2 piece Long Shadow (DEX & MP)
2 piece Sucker Punch (DEX & MP)
2 piece One Against Many (DEX & MP)

Assuming all rares, that is +4 DEX, +40 MP, and a little +8 PRR bonus. As important as DEX is to this toon, I don't think anything else realistically competes.

The math on total filigrees has changed, of course, with minor artifacts, but the basic logic still holds. If I had 3 more slots, I'd put in Prowess or Next Fall for +10 MP, DEX +1, and whatever else.

It makes a huge difference in early epics having all that MP; by later epics, less so and perhaps combining it with Prowess on an artifact is the best of all worlds! I have a little over 40K sentient xp on my drow dagger and realized that it would be better to focus the rest of sentient xp used on endgame weapon/artifact sentients.

If you splashed 1 barb you can do a swap set (2 on weapon plus 3 on artifact) at cap for Beast Mantle 1000K temp hp

[Saekee]

I thought I would update this since it comes up in searches.

Everything is in play with a few changes:

1. minor artifacts adding 3 slots and able to complete sets
2. prowess nerf as discussed above
3. shattered device (Strimtom uses this in his set; see commentary in his thread)

Minor artifacts can be used also as a swap if you wish to use one purely while assassinating. It only costs 3K sentient xp to open up three slots on an artifact. For example, we could load up one minor artifact with the third and fourth pieces of Treachery for +2 assassinate; the other two (Dex and Melee power) would sit on the main weapon for +10 melee power (two set) and +1 Dex. It could even be used for hosting Long Shadow filis so that a pure DPS swap is possible against bosses, minimizing the less useful DC allocaiton. For example, in the artifact one could put HS/MS +2/Threat reduction of Treachery and one from Long Shadow, or even a random Dex filigree.

Strimtom's setup which is very advanced (using 8 slots) does the full 4 piece shattered device and four piece treachery. He then loads up on MP in the artifact. Since he has Ring of the Silver Tongue he just keeps full assassinate setup running at all times.

My toon is too gimp to pull this off so I am looking at 6 slots on the weapon, 3 on the artifact. I believe that having shattered device on the artifact is a better option since you can then have it completed on a swap weapon, should you use one for certain mobs (such as oozes, a ranged weapon, or in the case of undead if you do not have Pain and Suffering).

If you do not wish to do the shattered device route, you can use the artifact to complete the prowess setup quite easily, win-win.

Thoughts?