Drow are ddos worst race now

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

I believe the changes to spell resistance have negatively impacted game play for all races - spell resistance hardly ever works now, the numbers are simply too low
and in most cases it is not worth using spell resistance on any but the Underdark races.

And even for the Underdark races, the numbers are simply too low.

This seems intended sadly. Spell resistance is now a garbage stat to be dumped for something considered less static.

Meanwhile, Spell resistance, according to the core rules DDO is based on is not a garbage stat or a stacking stat, it is an extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn’t affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance, i.e. slot multiple items to purposely stack buffs. The creature with spell resistance either natural or from a wonderous item need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate. And according to the official canon, in the Forgotten Realms, the Underdark is permeated with a magical energy the Drow call faerzress, which is used as a source of energy by the native plant life and which interferes with scrying and teleportation spells. As a result all of the denizens of the Underdark are highly resistant to magic, Aboleths, Beholders, Derro, Drow, Duergar, Svirfneblin (Deep Gnomes), etc.

Let's take a step back - the Drow were first mentioned in the Dungeons & Dragons game in the 1st Edition 1977 Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manual under the "Elf" entry, and were invented by Gary Gygax himself, one of the founders and creators of this game. There are people who've never played Dungeons and Dragons who can tell you what a drow is, Gygax's invention has become so popular; this partly due too to R. A. Salvatore's Icewind Dale Trilogy which elevated Drow and the Underdark to extreme popularity.

My believe is the devs ignored all this and changed DDO spell resistance and the underdark races to suit the current preference players to use 'spell saves' instead of spell resistance, away from the static, into save roll for spells; but this is counter to the original rules, counter the the canon, and counter to what the fans of the Underdark want.

And now due to Drow's loss of inherent spell resistance, coupled with their poor racial enhancements and abilities, Drow are truly only viable as flavor. That is what this spell resistance 'redesign' has literally done. It has killed Drow as a viable playable class for anything. Why? Because every other race is now better for a specific class than a Drow.

Spell Resistance was the Drow's main draw which set them apart, like half-elf dilettantes or dragonborn's flight and breath weapons. Drow now has the weakest racial enhancements especially when compared to deep gnomes and dragonborn. And Drow suffer from a build-point reduction which the others do not; not to mention they lack the basic and core Drow SLAs from pen and paper such as Darkness and Dark vision.

Therefore spell resistance needs to be fixed in the Drow racial enhancements to make them relevant again. Drow and Deep Gnomes and any other underdark race should receive a spell resistance equal to their level which stack, or start with 10 and 3 racial enhancements which ad 4 points per for a total of 10+(12) when maxed, which stacks; or they should just revert back to the old non-stacking system that is in the original rules.

The Drow also need a dev pass to fix their racial tree as well and bring it in line with the other premium races. They need arcanum for example.

I play a Drow for flavor, being a fan of the lore and it completely sucks and ruins my game
to know that I am literally playing the worst race in DDO now.

[Selvera]

I'll agree that drow need a buff. But I don't follow your logic in a number of ways.

Spell resistance is now more of a save vs spells instead of an AC vs spells? Let's look at the difference between saves and AC in the 3.5 rules;
Save -> Caster(monster) sets a DC, player rolls 1d20 and adds their save, if they get higher, they save.
AC -> Attacker(monster) Rolls 1d20 and adds their to-hit, Player has a DC that attacker must match.

They both have a number for the player and a number for the monster; separated by 1d20. I don't see "who rolls the die" as a significant variance, since the die's rolled by DDO in both cases anyways. They are both, fundamentally number + 1d20 vs number, and thus the same.

And in this system, a flat +6 or +12 stacking SR is always a 30% to 60% better spell resistance across all levels if the Devs are able to keep SR checks in the range of variance (aka not no-fail and not always-fail). As far as I can tell, the Devs currently have some work to do to make sure that this is the case, and, with the recent nerf to SR gear, always-fail is much too common to make SR useful for anyone.

In this system, giving drow SR based on level would too quickly turn SR into no-fail for drow while always-fail for everyone else. This is not what the devs want. (They want it to be useful on everyone, but better on drow).

Now, if your argument is that SR needs to have the same treatment as AC in DDO (where the formula is changed to: Monster's chance to hit: (Monster's Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target's Armor Class * 2) rounded to the nearest 5%), then I can see validity in your argument. This could be a method of making SR useful but not no-fail if they can't reconcile the numbers right now.

In my opinion, what devs need to do is adjust the numbers so that the actual math behind the game matches their design goals for SR (so that it's useful for everyone, but better for underdark races).

As for drow; I think they shouldn't get a build point penalty (Dragonborn have shown that +2 stats does not equate to a build point penalty) and that their enhancement tree should be upgraded somewhat. If these 2 things are done, drow will not be DDO's 2nd worst race anymore. (and the power-gap between races will close considerably).

[PsychoBlonde]

Now, if your argument is that SR needs to have the same treatment as AC in DDO (where the formula is changed to: Monster's chance to hit: (Monster's Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target's Armor Class * 2) rounded to the nearest 5%), then I can see validity in your argument. This could be a method of making SR useful but not no-fail if they can't reconcile the numbers right now.

You know, I proposed this shortly after the AC changeover and everyone was like "nooooo impossibru". Guess I'm just ahead of the curve. Anyway, I think this is a good idea. Whining aside, the AC rebalance and PRR/MRR helped A LOT. It makes sense that SR (which is basically AC vs. spells) would be on the same system as AC.

From what I can tell, I haven't seen a lot of complaining about spell DC's lately. (This could be for a number of reasons, from the fact that everyone is doing heroics right now.) But DC's/saves seem to be working reasonably well still. Maybe it helps that there's a lot more variety with DC's and saving throws and a much larger range. With SR, it tends to be very pass/fail because all the mobs in a given quest have basically the same SR values. This is not the case for spell DC's/saves.

As for drow; I think they shouldn't get a build point penalty (Dragonborn have shown that +2 stats does not equate to a build point penalty) and that their enhancement tree should be upgraded somewhat. If these 2 things are done, drow will not be DDO's 2nd worst race anymore. (and the power-gap between races will close considerably).

I said this, too. Dragonborn ticked me off as a race because of the build point disparity. No reason why Drow should be in the penalty box for build points still.

[Vulkoorex]

Make it simpler.
Drow immune to hold, fear, curse, and slow spells.

[Torkzed]

Make it simpler.
Drow immune to hold, fear, curse, and slow spells.

Great idea! It would be kind of like how warforged are immune to poison! Oh...wait...

[Vulkoorex]

Great idea! It would be kind of like how warforged are immune to poison! Oh...wait...

It'll work like Freedom of Movement.
Lol

[whoolsey]

Cute write up.
However drow were supposed to be the enemy hence the different stats and SR.
Though the emo writting about the one good drow didn't help either and spawned plenty of disapointed xxXdritzXxx clones in the harbor.
Bringing them down to player levels meant breaking down their power.
Though personally i liked the 3,5's system of buying of LA with exp, this wouldn't work in ddo due to the abbundance of exp. So a watered down version of drow it is.

Looking on to what they did to warforged, a quintesential Eberron race, be glad the drow is at least functional. Potential dev qoute: "Pray I don't alter it any further" aplies here.
The chance of devs intentionaly or accedentaly breaking drow to the level of warforged is to big, just keep your head low and be glad you stil have something playeble instead of a bunch of high level bank toons.

[valkrei]

I play a drow and wow, I agree the Spell resist drow get as a bonus is NOT enough. Huge SR nerf. I now use ward of the wierd but didn't need to before the changes.

Also Drow Enevonomed weapons shouldn't be so high up in the tier and it should do more that 1 dice of damage.

The +hit/dmg and enhancements should include scimitars, Drizzit Demands it!

[Aselrik]

Cute write up.
However drow were supposed to be the enemy hence the different stats and SR.

Not in Eberron's lore, though. Keep in mind DDO was Eberron only long before Forgotten Realms. Eberron was adopted as an official setting when WotC decided to try and have a contest to fully own the license of a setting. Forgotten Realms (and previously, Dragonlance) are WotC's most popular settings, but unfortunately, TSR sold all off portions in all kinds of crazy license deals that WotC still has to honor. These crazy deals will mean it's unlikely DDO will ever be in Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate, for example. It also means there's never going to be a FR movie.

It's disputed if Drow are based off Trow (essentially mischief goblins), norse dark elves (essentially dwarves), or winter elves aka Unseelie (not evil, but a balancing counterpart to summer elves).

I played through the 3.0 and 3.5 glory days, and I'll say that absolute morality of races was always unpopular.

Though personally i liked the 3,5's system of buying of LA with exp, this wouldn't work in ddo due to the abbundance of exp. So a watered down version of drow it is.

DDO basically resolved this with the racial enhancement tree. If you want to have good D&D racials, you spend enhancement points on it. If you don't, you'll be good in other areas, but not the racial abilities. But even if you add in LA, that doesn't fix OP's problem... which is the same problem AC had years ago. You either ignored it entirely, or stacked it to the detriment of everything else

[Kurse_Darkstone]

Let's take a step back - the Drow were first mentioned in the Dungeons & Dragons game in the 1st Edition 1977 Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manual under the "Elf" entry, and were invented by Gary Gygax himself, one of the founders and creators of this game. There are people who've never played Dungeons and Dragons who can tell you what a drow is, Gygax's invention has become so popular; this partly due too to R. A. Salvatore's Icewind Dale Trilogy which elevated Drow and the Underdark to extreme popularity.

actually.. Gygax asked Salvatore to come up with a new enemy for the module Isle of Dread.. which he did.. so.. ACTUALLY.. Salvatore invented the Drow as we know them today... just wanted to correct that one part of misinformation. Not taking anything away from Gygax at all!

[Annex]

Drow I can play.

Dragonborn, Dwarfs, Half-elfs, Half-orcs, Purple Dragon Knights, Shadar kai, Warforged...just ugg.

[Dreppo]

actually.. Gygax asked Salvatore to come up with a new enemy for the module Isle of Dread.. which he did.. so.. ACTUALLY.. Salvatore invented the Drow as we know them today... just wanted to correct that one part of misinformation. Not taking anything away from Gygax at all!

Not sure about this story. At least, the Isle of Dread certainly didn't feature any drow. Isle of Dread is remote island in Mystara inhabited by all sorts of strange creatures including pre-historic ones, kind of like a Jurassic Park.

[Pnumbra]

Drow I can play.

Dragonborn, Dwarfs, Half-elfs, Half-orcs, Purple Dragon Knights, Shadar kai, Warforged...just ugg.

I painfully remain loyal to the half-elf. It has the most horrid enhancement tree.

[elvesunited]

And now due to Drow's loss of inherent spell resistance, coupled with their poor racial enhancements and abilities, Drow are truly only viable as flavor. That is what this spell resistance 'redesign' has literally done. It has killed Drow as a viable playable class for anything. Why? Because every other race is now better for a specific class than a Drow

They still make the best shuri-cannons.

[Zavina]

actually.. Gygax asked Salvatore to come up with a new enemy for the module Isle of Dread.. which he did.. so.. ACTUALLY.. Salvatore invented the Drow as we know them today... just wanted to correct that one part of misinformation. Not taking anything away from Gygax at all!

Actually that is incorrect.

I have been a massive fan of the Drow for years, inc LARPing them. I had the good fortune to meet Gary many years ago, and we stayed in contact via email; and one of the questions I had asked was on the origin of the Drow. There were some things he couldn't discuss due to contractual obligations that were ongoing. But he discussed where the Drow actually came from, which has always made me chuckle over the years. It's one of my fondest memories of Gary, and I was deeply saddened when he passed away.

If you mention RA Salvatore, you have to mention Elaine Cunningham (Daughter of the Drow) and the follow on work from Ed Greenwood, in his ADND sourcebook,"Drow of the Underdark". I'd say that Salvatore colored in the sections, rather than "inventing" everything as it were.

[Fivetigers33]

Just because it isn't the "best" doesn't make it horrible. I'm TRing into a drow bard soon and looking forward to it. I don't do much with racial enhancements, so what their tree has or doesn't have isn't a concern of mine. The small inherent SR boost will put my SR higher than whatever it would have been as another race. Whether it's going to actually block any spells is another matter, as I don't generally go out of my way to have SR.

The one thing about Drow that I don't like is how they don't get any further ability points on subsequent TRs (34/36 point build). I know they are inherently have those bonuses, but if anyone can get them on a first life toon, 2nd+ lives should still get the extra points at creation.

[Miow]

They still make the best shuri-cannons.

Ninjas.

[Hilltrot]

Actually that is incorrect.

I have been a massive fan of the Drow for years, inc LARPing them. I had the good fortune to meet Gary many years ago, and we stayed in contact via email; and one of the questions I had asked was on the origin of the Drow. There were some things he couldn't discuss due to contractual obligations that were ongoing. But he discussed where the Drow actually came from, which has always made me chuckle over the years. It's one of my fondest memories of Gary, and I was deeply saddened when he passed away.

If you mention RA Salvatore, you have to mention Elaine Cunningham (Daughter of the Drow) and the follow on work from Ed Greenwood, in his ADND sourcebook,"Drow of the Underdark". I'd say that Salvatore colored in the sections, rather than "inventing" everything as it were.

Aaaand you're going to keep it a secret . . .

I really hate it when anonymous people claim to be primary sources . . .

Most everything about the Drow was already set down in D1-3. It is better to say that Ed Greenwood "colored in the sections."

Nothing truly new was added after D1-3. RA Salvatore just brought an obsession with something that was only suppose to be part of a major plotline. Since G1-3 D1-3 Q1 quality adventures never reappeared for the longest time, this was not difficult to do.

Since R.A. Salvatore was still a teenager at the time D3 came out, any claim that he had any part in the Drow's invention is bogus.

[Hilltrot]

actually.. Gygax asked Salvatore to come up with a new enemy for the module Isle of Dread.. which he did.. so.. ACTUALLY.. Salvatore invented the Drow as we know them today... just wanted to correct that one part of misinformation. Not taking anything away from Gygax at all!

You are so full of it.

D3 Vault of the Drow - 1978 RA Salvatore was a 19-year-old freshman who just read Lord of the Rings.

X1 Isle of Dread - 1981 - three years later

There is nothing about your story which is right.

[Zavina]

Aaaand you're going to keep it a secret . . .

I really hate it when anonymous people claim to be primary sources . . .

Most everything about the Drow was already set down in D1-3. It is better to say that Ed Greenwood "colored in the sections."

Nothing truly new was added after D1-3. RA Salvatore just brought an obsession with something that was only suppose to be part of a major plotline. Since G1-3 D1-3 Q1 quality adventures never reappeared for the longest time, this was not difficult to do.

Since R.A. Salvatore was still a teenager at the time D3 came out, any claim that he had any part in the Drow's invention is bogus.

Lol anonymous people claim to be primary sources, so sayeth another "anonymous person" (pot calling kettle black). If you refer to Gary Gygax being an "anonymous primary source" (o_O) but oh well, whatever floats your boat.

Effectively, the basic outline for the Drow came from Gary's niece. She had been about 9 years old at the time, and she rattled off about these evil fairies worshipping a spider as a Queen. Since elves were often regarded as fey, dark became black and so on.