Give Artificers some lovin!

[DOA666]

Anyone know when the Artificer pass is due? I hate seeing every other class get a chance before my beloved Artificers!

Not to walk in and complain without a suggestion.....

As rune arms are acceptable offhand items for the Single Weapon Fighting feat already and animation of Artificers shows them using crossbows one handed ... I would like to propose that crossbow's are added to the list of acceptable weapons for Single Weapon Fighting feat as a way of increasing their current below average damage with the crossbow. To get the bonuses characters would have to have Artificer class and offhand a rune arm i.e. crossbow in one hand. Keep the current bonuses from the chain of feats however credited them towards ranged attack speed/ranged attack power instead of melee.

Maybe an enhancement for the Battle Engineer tree not dissimilar to Bards Swashbucklers tree having the buckler added to the acceptable offhand list for Single Weapon Fighting feats? If I am seen as pushing this idea to the extreme, how about adding all the Single Weapon Fighting feats to the Artificer bonus skill list? We already have the first one!

[)OA

[Khatzhas]

I view the Harper tree and the crossbow update as boosts to Artificers. I'm still waiting for them to get their 3rd tree, and possibly even an epic destiny as well though. The Harper tree does an awful lot of stuff that I would have expected to see in an Artificer tree however.

I don't think SWF really fits that well with crossbows. It certainly fits well with a melee artificer as an alternative to THF though, so adding it to the bonus feats sounds good.

In Heroics at least, artificer repeater damage is quite respectable. (Particularly considering that you will also be adding a large amount of damage from rune arm and your support capabilities.)
The issue is in Epics because it doesn't scale too well. (Compared to Mechanic Rogues who have a primary source of extra damage that scales with Attack power for example.)

[unbongwah]

As rune arms are acceptable offhand items for the Single Weapon Fighting feat already and animation of Artificers shows them using crossbows one handed ... I would like to propose that crossbow's are added to the list of acceptable weapons for Single Weapon Fighting feat as a way of increasing their current below average damage with the crossbow.

Not signed. SWF is exclusively a melee feat chain, the same as TWF and THF; the fact the description contains the phrase "single weapon" doesn't mean it should be a ranged bonus as well. What's next, asking for dual-thrower builds if you have the TWF feats?

. . . okay, that would actually be kinda badass too. But I don't see it happening, either.

I agree that arties need serious buffing, but fundamentally changing the way certain feats work isn't the best solution, IMHO. You can accomplish what needs doing by buffing the PrEs and tweaking their spells.

[PentegarnDarras]

*BUMP*

Artificer is the most fun class for me. I'd like to see them get OP in epic if only for a short while.

[Lemdog]

*BUMP*

Artificer is the most fun class for me. I'd like to see them get OP in epic if only for a short while.

They are already OP

[HastyPudding]

They are already OP

In heroics, sure, but they're not that great in epics. It's the same boat with caster druids; you spend level 6-18 one-shoting most things with call lightning, then you hit level 20 and epic HP hits you in the face like a sack of bricks with the message 'you're CC now, not DPS, get used to it.' labeled on it. Artificers are overpowered in the lower levels, but beyond level 16-18, their DPS drops off and they rapidly take the back seat to most other ranged builds. When it gets to the point where you HAVE to multiclass to be even remotely competitive in damage, there's a problem.

I'd love to see a makeover artificer trees:

Battle Engineer: a crossbow/repeater line and a SWF line would suffice, with some support for rune arm usage. Ranged/melee power can be added in the individual lines, perhaps making it a multi-selector line (like in kensei) so you can't abuse both swf and crossbows at the same time. You have to be careful with the balance though, one misstep and you're sending rogue mechanics back into obscurity.

Arcanotechnician: this tree is actually pretty nice in heroics as a pure spellcaster. However, once you hit level 20 your damage drops off the deep end. I'd like to see some more spellpower additions to this tree, as well as removing the dog enhancements and putting in some useful passives, perhaps making the lightning bolt in the cores an SLA rather than the actual spell. Also, there needs to be much more support for the rune arm in this tree, enhancing its damage and spellpower bonuses instead of it being in the engineer tree.

Master Maker: this was the original design for the third tree, if I remember correctly. This would make an interesting support tree. Switching the dog enhancements from arcanotechnician to this one and making them better (like the enlightened spirit tree for warlocks) would be a start, as well as providing the augment summons feat in the cores. Give them some weapon enchantment SLA's, flame turret enhancements, maybe even some new turrets to play with, as well. You could add a repair serious wounds SLA to the tier 5's along with a repair and rust spellpower/critical line. Heck, while you're at it, give this tree enhancements for the 'construct essence' feat, making it more useful (perhaps even full repair healing in the tier 5's) as well as the other body feats, along with repair amplification. So many possibilities.

[Khatzhas]

Personally I would change the Artificer trees something more like this:

Battle Engineer: the physical combat and trapping tree.

Move Rune arm bonuses to Master maker tree, both core and tree.

Cores: instead of +1s to weapons and armour, make them multipliers. So Infused weapon I multiplies the weapon's enhancement bonus by 1.5. II doubles the bonus. Same with infused armour. (Possibly even doubles for I and triples for II if that isn't excessive.)

Add an option for one-handed weapons (or any weapon) to the crossbows and hand-and-a-half selectors for the weapon Training. Rethink the bonuses and costs based on the newer examples like Rogue Mechanic tree.

Add Improved Traps from the Rogue Mechanic tree, but at a higher tier.

Above that, add an enhancement to increase the range of open lock and disable device skills.

Tier 5, drop an improved turret or something similar. Perhaps a spinning blade trap. (The type that pop out from the ground.)

Add multiselector enhancements to improve weapons and armour. (Similar to Harper Tree but perhaps more options.) Such as elemental resistance, PRR, MRR, based on enhancement bonus of armour. (Pick one).
Higher tier add multiselector for things like Deathblock, feather falling, underwater action, Shield.

Tier 2(?) and 3(?) Select weapons or armour. Doubles the duration of spells that enhance them.


Arcanotechnician: Spellcasting.

Move the Iron defender enhancements to Master Maker tree.

Add higher tier (or core 4) additional boost to Wand Mastery. (Possibly selector to apply a metamagic feat you have to any spell cast from an item.(May not be feasible due to coding.))

Add some (force?) based SLAs/enhancements to reduce focus on electrical damage.

Either change the max caster level of the SLAs in the tree, add enhancements/cores that increase the max caster level, or pick different spells that don't max out at level 10.
(Or ideally, change the actual Artificer spells that they are based on.)


Master Maker: Magical devices and Constructs.

Add the Rune arm enhancements from Battle engineer.

Add enhancements to increase the Spellpower scaling of Rune arms.

Add the Iron defender enhancements from Arcanotechnician. Rethink some of them, such as the Arcane Engine to improve the combat capability and survivability.

Add a few more enhancements based on Construct Essence. Increase repair amp. ->Casting Construct-only spells on yourself. -> Taking Warforged feats. -> Gain warforged immunities, gain Construct type, lose humanoid type.
(I would add ability to use docents/now look like a Warforged but that might be unfeasible due to appearance changes.)
Perhaps on a selector that allows Warforged to go the other way: increase healing amp and gradually become more humanoid instead.


Any thoughts?

[Vellrad]

Meh, artificers are decent, wizards need much more help now.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

Give them the Mechanic Tree, kill Battle Engineer, take the rune arm enhancements and the iron defender enhancements and make that a tree, and put more casting styled enhancements in Arcanotechnician. Done.

[unbongwah]

Battle Engineer: the physical combat and trapping tree.
Arcanotechnician: Spellcasting.
Master Maker: Magical devices and Constructs.

I might suggest putting the trapping & turret bonuses in the 3rd PrE, which fits better thematically IMHO and makes it more useful. Otherwise I like the basic concept here.