U27 Enlightened Spirit Adjustments

[Memnir]

Not deep cuts, and after playing around with the ES tree on a few builds - they make sense. Yeah, as a player I'll miss the current numbers a bit - but the DM in me is nodding in agreement that the adjustments make sense without going overboard.

[fmalfeas]

You know, given that Eldritch Chain is 110% spellpower /with/ -1 pact die, and no bonus dice of any kind, while the ES cleavebursts are 130% with bonus light dice (and possibly more bonus light dice as well), and Chain is quite potent...I'd say you'll be completely fine.

[Steve_Howe]

nm

[Chai]

Terrible.

Self healing for the class was already shouted down, so now the temp HP gets lowered?

When I use both spell bursts the same result occurs as when I use cleave and great cleave in rapid succession. Apparently cleaves have been OP for 9 years, and every single person who played DDO missed it.

[Uska]

:sigh:

Really?

I'm getting tired of this. I spend money on four +5 Hearts to convert my 20th level Horc fighter to a 20th level Horc melee Warlock because I found a build I liked through testing on Lamannia only to have it nerfed a week later.

I know I'm not the only one this has happened to and I know this certainly isn't the first time such a thing has happened. Nonetheless, I am getting tired of the same thing happening to builds over and over and over again.

It's quite demoralizing really.

A little dramatic it's not that big a nerf

[Pnumbra]

This nerf to Warlock is just ridiculous. Did you bother to fix the bugs in the class before deciding to nerf it? How about a post release opinion poll on the idea before blindsiding us. Didn't the Lama test runs show the prowess of the class, and you were ok with that back then, right?

If the class is over performing (subjective idea at best), the it is in the heroic levels, not in the epics. Have you read the conversations? Even in this thread players are stating that there are far more powerful classes. Are you going to nerf them based on player admission to the fact?

...And yes this was a bait and switch tactic. It will be a cold day in the nether realms before you fool me again.

[Drwaz99]

I love it when I buy a car and after owning it for a month the dealership calls me and tells me I need to take it in because it makes 15 horsepower too much and they are going to adjust it.

This was mentioned on Lamannia, they ignored it. Now there are going to be droves of ****ed off players who don't read the forums who just bought warlocks and now aren't going to get what they paid for. The facepalming continues.

[Krumm]

How about for lowering the spell power scaling, you increase the radius of the blasts and/or aura.

By how much, I'm not sure... 30%?



Just enough to make some difference but not a lot would be my suggestion.


btw, what is the actual radius of the blasts and the aura?
I felt it was bigger than cleave/great cleave radius but still annoyingly a wee bit smaller than I would like...

[Vellrad]

Con score?
Shouldn't it be X*con mod, like everything else in game (except max carrying cap) is?

[kain741]

:sigh:

Really?

I'm getting tired of this. I spend money on four +5 Hearts to convert my 20th level Horc fighter to a 20th level Horc melee Warlock because I found a build I liked through testing on Lamannia only to have it nerfed a week later.

I know I'm not the only one this has happened to and I know this certainly isn't the first time such a thing has happened. Nonetheless, I am getting tired of the same thing happening to builds over and over and over again.

It's quite demoralizing really.

Not sure if that makes a lot of sense. You know it's a new class...you know there will be nerfs as the balance is found. Set that aside for a moment. (4) +5 hearts is approx 6000 TP with a required 12 day cool down on reincarnation cooldowns. Chances are you can grind a free heart in a few hours and if you spend a little TP on a couple XP elixirs you will have a past life, approx 5K saved TP and will be back to 20 in about half the time of the reincarnate cooldowns. The Dev team cannot always anticipate someone making such an illogical decision knowing that this is an evolving class and game in general. In general, if it is going to take multiple hearts to fix a build, it just makes more sense to TR.

[Xyy]

This is an unfortunate reflex to one side of the clamoring. Following is stated IMHO. The problem with the power of warlocks is a perception issue. A warlock is easy enough to play that less skillful players can play one at much closer to the level of a top level player. Kinda the opposite of an assassin, where there is a much wider performance gap between less and more skilled players. Shining Through is a bit over the top in heroics, but is merely adequate in epics. If the class had good innate healing, then yeah, this would be overpowered.

[Xyy]

Oh, and one more thing: Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!

[Seikojin]

thanks for the heads up

Agreed. LOL @ the complainers.

[HastyPudding]

Oooook... So introduce some of the most exciting abilities to use on a melee (a "burst" attack) and then nerf it like 2 weeks later? You guys know us players spent money on this right?

I'll just point you to the direction the "Recon SLA" discussion went... If you nerf this, it's bait and switch!

The damage it's doing is not even close to the damage a Barbarian is doing with his Cleaves, at least not if you're playing a melee Warlock and not some kind of Uber crit chance/damage caster warlock (no clue what an end game caster warlock's burst hits for).

Just keep in mind, if you ever change the aura scaling to anything less than 150% then melee Warlock is dead. And idc if you want to kill a specific build or not as long ppl don't need to spend money to build it. This one cost money...

Blatant Bait and Switch.

Edit: Btw, if there's anything about the Warlock that needs a nerf, these are definately Consume and Stricken. They hit for way more than any Wiz/Sorc or Clr/FvS spell does. I just finished a "Souleater" Warlock life on my FvS and these two combined made boss fights as trivial as killing trash with Wail of the Banshee.

It's not the melee warlocks, it's the full caster warlocks that do nothing but boost intelligence for spellcraft/damage then put every metamagic they can on the cleaves and spam as much as they want without cost, all the while having a huge chunk of easily and cheaply re-castable temporary HP. Not to mention the strong defensive benefits of the tree. This current 'nerf' is a rebalance, and if you ask me, they're being prudent and testing the water because it really needs a nerf, not a rebalance. Nobody should walk around with the kind of ridiculously easy damage ES warlocks have AND have the survivability aspects as well.

This nerf to Warlock is just ridiculous. Did you bother to fix the bugs in the class before deciding to nerf it? How about a post release opinion poll on the idea before blindsiding us. Didn't the Lama test runs show the prowess of the class, and you were ok with that back then, right?

If the class is over performing (subjective idea at best), the it is in the heroic levels, not in the epics. Have you read the conversations? Even in this thread players are stating that there are far more powerful classes. Are you going to nerf them based on player admission to the fact?

...And yes this was a bait and switch tactic. It will be a cold day in the nether realms before you fool me again.

Have you seen the warlocks on live? They have widespread immunities, short cooldown/massive power/no cost cleaves, huge temporary HP buffs on a short cooldown, and the PRR/MRR capabilities of a decently-geared tank. It's not the other warlocks that are getting rebalanced, it's just this tree, because it's blatantly trivializing most content. I don't think the devs thought that offensive casters would play in a defensive/support tree, but now you have them doing so and it's absurdly strong.

This is an unfortunate reflex to one side of the clamoring. Following is stated IMHO. The problem with the power of warlocks is a perception issue. A warlock is easy enough to play that less skillful players can play one at much closer to the level of a top level player. Kinda the opposite of an assassin, where there is a much wider performance gap between less and more skilled players. Shining Through is a bit over the top in heroics, but is merely adequate in epics. If the class had good innate healing, then yeah, this would be overpowered.

I'm inclined to agree. It's not that warlock is obviously overpowered (they're definitely on the strong side, but it does have some drawbacks) it's just the ease in which they do things. It's a very easy class to play, making maximizing the damage capabilities almost effortless, because it needs so little requirement to play efficiently. Now, take this easy-to-play class that doesn't need uber specialized builds and put it behind a completionist TR character with tons of epic past lives and good gear. THAT is why it's considered overpowered.

[Steve_Howe]

A little dramatic

Not really. I didn't forecast DOOOOOOOOOOOM nor did I threaten to quit the game.

I merely expressed my frustration.

[Chai]

It's not the melee warlocks, it's the full caster warlocks that do nothing but boost intelligence for spellcraft/damage then put every metamagic they can on the cleaves and spam as much as they want without cost, all the while having a huge chunk of easily and cheaply re-castable temporary HP. Not to mention the strong defensive benefits of the tree. This current 'nerf' is a rebalance, and if you ask me, they're being prudent and testing the water because it really needs a nerf, not a rebalance. Nobody should walk around with the kind of ridiculously easy damage ES warlocks have AND have the survivability aspects as well.




Have you seen the warlocks on live? They have widespread immunities, short cooldown/massive power/no cost cleaves, huge temporary HP buffs on a short cooldown, and the PRR/MRR capabilities of a decently-geared tank. It's not the other warlocks that are getting rebalanced, it's just this tree, because it's blatantly trivializing most content. I don't think the devs thought that offensive casters would play in a defensive/support tree, but now you have them doing so and it's absurdly strong.




I'm inclined to agree. It's not that warlock is obviously overpowered (they're definitely on the strong side, but it does have some drawbacks) it's just the ease in which they do things. It's a very easy class to play, making maximizing the damage capabilities almost effortless, because it needs so little requirement to play efficiently. Now, take this easy-to-play class that doesn't need uber specialized builds and put it behind a completionist TR character with tons of epic past lives and good gear. THAT is why it's considered overpowered.

And yet there are numerous builds which are clearing out quests faster than warlocks, with their own easy button survivability, and are just as easy to create and effortless to play.

TR lives are no longer what makes a build super powerful. I have a feeling many people who did all the work are peeved at this, and likely rightfully so, but that ship sailed when EDs came along, and is only heightened by class revamps, but the class revamps and introduction of a new class did not create this issue, nor is it going away. There is no content in this game which can be completed on a multi TR build which cannot be completed on the first life version of the same build all other things being equal.

The myth that someone needs to be multi TR to be powerful enough to steamroll content is a myth and has been a myth since 2012, yet I still see it perpetuated on the forums on a daily basis, where people are comparing old hat multi TR builds to new revamped first life characters and demanding nerfs based on this apples to oranges comparison. The biggest place TRing has an impact is spell penetration. It offers no other source of power that is needed in order to complete elite or epic elite content. Therefore this comparison is not a justification for a nerf.

we saw a lot of the same mentality when nerf demands were made against shiradi, multiple times. Its too easy. Past lives aren't required. Correct. Past lives aren't required - for anything any more, nor will they be in the future in their current state. Instead of asking for an increase in past life power gained, people demand nerfs using the same tired comparison between multi TR old hat builds, and new first life builds, after every_single_update - because they think the new class is the issue, which is incorrect. Past lives not scaling in power as the power crept up is the issue.

The other issue is the content. Yes warlocks are OP in heroic content. What class isn't?

[Sebastrd]

Hey, all.

We have a pair of adjustments for Enlightened Spirit abilities planned for Update 27, and we're not sure whether or not they'll make it into a Lamannia build, so we wanted to let you know about them ahead of time. Currently, they are:

• The Spell Power scaling of Eldritch Burst and Spirit Blast is now 120% (was 150%).
• Shining Through now grants Temporary Hit Points equal to 12x your Constitution Score (was 15x).

These two abilities on Live are a bit stronger than intended, and we believe these adjustments will put them a little closer to where they should be while still remaining powerful.

Thanks!

-Steel

If you're going to make adjustments, you should make them in heroic only. Warlocks are not at all overpowered in epics; in fact, they're somewhat underpowered at 20+.

Edit: I'd also like to echo some of the sentiment in this thread. I am NOT happy about this change, especially when there are bugs in the class that still have not been fixed.

Warlocks, even in heroics, are NOT overperforming compared to other classes that have been revised recently - and even some that haven't. After two Warlock lives, I ran a Mechanic for the last Rogue life I needed, and I ran circles around the numerous Warlocks I grouped with. The burst abilities are no better than Cleave/Great Cleave or Exalted Cleave/Avenging Cleave. Shining Through should have had a smaller multiplier in heroics (probably x10) than in epics from the beginning, just like Brilliance; but otherwise, the class is fine.

Either way, this is just one more instance of the nerf bat coming in hot and heavy thanks to the cacophony from a vocal group on the forums, while detrimental bugs are left to linger. You'll go ahead and reduce my spell power and temp hit points, but I guarantee I'll still be unable to res on occasion and be unable to complete certain quests thanks to the buggy aura. I'm a little fed up with the apparently skewed priorities.

[Xerio]

If you're going to make adjustments, you should make them in heroic only. Warlocks are not at all overpowered in epics; in fact, they're somewhat underpowered at 20+.

agreed ^

[Pnumbra]

If you're going to make adjustments, you should make them in heroic only. Warlocks are not at all overpowered in epics; in fact, they're somewhat underpowered at 20+.

Edit: I'd also like to echo some of the sentiment in this thread. I am NOT happy about this change, especially when there are bugs in the class that still have not been fixed.

Warlocks, even in heroics, are NOT overperforming compared to other classes that have been revised recently - and even some that haven't. After two Warlock lives, I ran a Mechanic for the last Rogue life I needed, and I ran circles around the numerous Warlocks I grouped with. The burst abilities are no better than Cleave/Great Cleave or Exalted Cleave/Avenging Cleave. Shining Through should have had a smaller multiplier in heroics (probably x10) than in epics from the beginning, just like Brilliance; but otherwise, the class is fine.

Either way, this is just one more instance of the nerf bat coming in hot and heavy thanks to the cacophony from a vocal group on the forums, while detrimental bugs are left to linger. You'll go ahead and reduce my spell power and temp hit points, but I guarantee I'll still be unable to res on occasion and be unable to complete certain quests thanks to the buggy aura. I'm a little fed up with the apparently skewed priorities.

Great idea:

The Spell Power scaling of Eldritch Burst and Spirit Blast is now 120% (was 150%). OR scales 100% heroic and 150% epic
Shining Through now grants Temporary Hit Points equal to 12x your Constitution Score (was 15x). OR 10x heroic and 15x epic

I wonder if something like this was even considered?

[Steve_Howe]

Great idea:

The Spell Power scaling of Eldritch Burst and Spirit Blast is now 120% (was 150%). OR scales 100% heroic and 150% epic
Shining Through now grants Temporary Hit Points equal to 12x your Constitution Score (was 15x). OR 10x heroic and 15x epic

I wonder if something like this was even considered?

This makes WAY more sense.

Nice!