What about the sorcerer elemental forms

[Hobgoblin]

I see that you fixed druid elemental forms? but what about sorcs?

It seems like they are left behind. again.

[moo_cow]

old
+1 CL and MCL for water or fire
-3 CL and MCL to everything else

New
+3 CL and MCL for water or fire
-3 CL and MCL to everything else

Sorc
+3 cl and mcl
-3 everything else
and 10% spell point increase

Only difference is the 10% spell point cost. I still hate it though because that makes your secondary spell school almost useless. I would welcome a change to improved their stances though.

Edit: I misspoke. Druids got a buff all around except to opposing element. I would love the sorcs stance to be buffed to the same and with the 10% increase gone.

[nolifer1]

old
+1 CL and MCL for water or fire
-3 CL and MCL to everything else

New
+3 CL and MCL for water or fire
-3 CL and MCL to everything else

Sorc
+3 cl and mcl
-3 everything else
and 10% spell point increase

Only difference is the 10% spell point cost. I still hate it though because that makes your secondary spell school almost useless. I would welcome a change to improved their stances though.

Edit: I misspoke. Druids got a buff all around except to opposing element. I would love the sorcs stance to be buffed to the same and with the 10% increase gone.

+1 , im just thinking how much dps can do ranged meeles, dont even need to shrine anymore....... 10 % spell cost is very unfair, how much sp shirady casters use? lol instead of 10% cost it shod be -10 at least or more

[Scrabbler]

The key problem with Sorcerer elemental form is Repair immunity.

[Blackheartox]

Sorc is fine, elemental form doesnt require a buff.

I dont get why you people neglect the prr and other benefits there are in cores and elemental forms special benefits like dodge more prr etc (depending on form) and the double sp sorc gets from tree combined with way superior spells.

Sorc doesnt need a buff, maybe the opposite.
A nerf

[Hobgoblin]

Sorc is fine, elemental form doesnt require a buff.

I dont get why you people neglect the prr and other benefits there are in cores and elemental forms special benefits like dodge more prr etc (depending on form) and the double sp sorc gets from tree combined with way superior spells.

Sorc doesnt need a buff, maybe the opposite.
A nerf

this is not about nerf/buffing its about 2 similar things and why they are not both changed

[Blackheartox]

this is not about nerf/buffing its about 2 similar things and why they are not both changed

Similiar yes, but sorc is still ahead with cores and overall caster levels.
You cant look at just "form" since cores are part of sorc-s kit and they overwhelm what sad druid had.
Druid elemental forms needed a buff since they were underwhelming and even after this minor buff the fact wont change that they are with fsoul and artie one of the weakest casters, but they are slightly ahead of those 2
/looking at pures, shiradi giberish is entirely different

[moo_cow]

Sorc is fine, elemental form doesnt require a buff.

I dont get why you people neglect the prr and other benefits there are in cores and elemental forms special benefits like dodge more prr etc (depending on form) and the double sp sorc gets from tree combined with way superior spells.

Sorc doesnt need a buff, maybe the opposite.
A nerf

3% dodge is basically worthless
20 prr isn't bad, but I usually don't take much damage anyway
spell power bonus is good
2 charisma is also good

I don't disagree with you however. Sorc is still insanely powerful. But ... my biggest beef with the elemental form is it renders every other spell other then your spec worthless. Dots can still be good but if I am an Air Elemental and cast a DBF, well there really is no point because I lose several hundred damage. Yes it is still a secondary but if it didn't lose -3 to mcl and cl then it may actually be somewhat useful. Dropping DBF to a 17 CL is completely worthless. You can bump it up in your secondary tree back up to 20 as well but that is still worthless compared to my 28-30 MCL of electric.

Would giving back the 3 cl from savant be a huge buff? No. It is not in the slightest OP, all it does is give us a decent bonus to secondary savants instead of a worthless secondary.

I also find a 10% increase to spell points stupid. It makes sense for electric spells since we gain power (would be cooler it was completely gone, but still ). 10% increase in spell points for my mass hold monster and dancing ball too? Now that IMO doesn't make any sense.

[moo_cow]

The key problem with Sorcerer elemental form is Repair immunity.

Silly Robits

[Blackheartox]

3% dodge is basically worthless
20 prr isn't bad, but I usually don't take much damage anyway
spell power bonus is good
2 charisma is also good

I don't disagree with you however. Sorc is still insanely powerful. But ... my biggest beef with the elemental form is it renders every other spell other then your spec worthless. Dots can still be good but if I am an Air Elemental and cast a DBF, well there really is no point because I lose several hundred damage. Yes it is still a secondary but if it didn't lose -3 to mcl and cl then it may actually be somewhat useful. Dropping DBF to a 17 CL is completely worthless. You can bump it up in your secondary tree back up to 20 as well but that is still worthless compared to my 28-30 MCL of electric.

Would giving back the 3 cl from savant be a huge buff? No. It is not in the slightest OP, all it does is give us a decent bonus to secondary savants instead of a worthless secondary.

I also find a 10% increase to spell points stupid. It makes sense for electric spells since we gain power (would be cooler it was completely gone, but still ). 10% increase in spell points for my mass hold monster and dancing ball too? Now that IMO doesn't make any sense.

Yes i agree with the 10% cost being a bit funny and not needed.
But i look at it as a flavor sort of thing, with great power comes big drain to users magical powers

As sidenote, i didnt have issues with sp bar managing in anything in ddo so far beside mark since its a sp drain fest, but i have a silly project about that issue when im done with 3x all, 2 etrs to go.

What i do is usually focus as fire savant as my 2ndary spell school, its mainly for imollation from cores/empyrian and scorching ray/delayed met /whatever synergy.
Since its affected by spellpower alone it becomes really good to mix fire/air fire/earth for example so the caster lvel doesnt hurt as much.
It would hurt if you went ice/air since 1 dot would be weaker, not considerably but still weaker.
What i like about the penality is the flexibility it allows, it makes me want to chose my spellbook and gear appropriate to the savant i am, if there was no penality the selection of spells and thus every savant would look more or less the same

Also the dodge is quite handy bdw, when i did drow sorc couple lifes ago i sacrificed a feat for dodge, took 3 from racial, got 3 from form.
Gave me 3 feat/3 racial enchant/3 form/3 plife/1 in air tree, 1 haste free dodge.
With belt it pushed it to a total of 25% dodge.
Can hardly say that was bad.
IF you exclude the 3 from plifes its still 22% for most players, hardly can say that is bad