Ghost of Perdition's end fight is stupid: is this WAI?

[Wizza]

Getting drained -20/-30 Con every second and then getting stunned is just simply a stupid mechanic, not fun, impossible to avoid by moving around the beholder or any tactic (you know, like avoiding the Anti-magic field requires you to stay BEHIND normal beholders).

Is it WAI to get spammed with -30 CON every second? Because if so, good job at making a rather fun and hard quest on heroic, one of the most annoying end fight ever.

[-Zephyr-]

Pretty sure the -CON is being spammed instead of the antimagic (which is missing altogether).

[PermaBanned]

Lol @ -30/second - exaggerate much? Even on EE I haven't seen a sustained drain rate that high - spikes that high yes, but not sustained. Also, with no Anti-magic you can Restoration yourself or ask a party member for one.

[Hobgoblin]

Lol @ -30/second - exaggerate much? Even on EE I haven't seen a sustained drain rate that high - spikes that high yes, but not sustained. Also, with no Anti-magic you can Restoration yourself or ask a party member for one.

he did say between 20 and 30

ran it twice on ee - not fun. got hit with -20 -22 -34 - 14 con then dead.

so that would fall in the parameters of the op

/shrug

not fun - i like a challenge but that was a stupid way to get one.

hob

[PermaBanned]

Am I safe in guessing that all y'all (Hob & Wiz) were soloing EE? I ask because the -Con damage amount doesn't really seem out of line (to me) for top level EEs, especially when there's multiple cannon fodd- *ahem* party members to spread the damage around. But when you're the only source for any & all damage to be focused on... Yeah, gonna need that Resto at the ready.

[Hobgoblin]

Am I safe in guessing that all y'all (Hob & Wiz) were soloing EE? I ask because the -Con damage amount doesn't really seem out of line (to me) for top level EEs, especially when there's multiple cannon fodd- *ahem* party members to spread the damage around. But when you're the only source for any & all damage to be focused on... Yeah, gonna need that Resto at the ready.

not sure about wiz but i was in a 4 man guild group and it just wasnt fun. i think my poor sorc had a target on my back cause my guildies didnt have issues - ie they were takin con damage but not in the same speed as me. its just not fun

/shrug

[mobrien316]

I did GoP with a full party immediately after the update. I had a PLIS equipped, Death Ward cast, negative energy absorption items on, and I was shield blocking much of the time. None of that stopped the whatever-ray from dropping me from 30-something CON to zero over and over again.

We completed, but I also thought it was stupid-hard. Making something challenging by making it somewhat unfair isn't what I'd like to see more of. Something should be able to prevent the CON drain, even if only for a limited number of times (like shield blocking or a Mantle or a PLIS or something like that.)

[LeoLionxxx]

Forgive me, for I've only actually run the quest once or twice, but since there is no anti-magic field, couldn't deathblock spell/potion prevent this stat damage?


edit: okay, I see above that deathblock actually doesn't work for some reason. I wonder if anti-beholder crystals or the Beholder optic nerves work.

[PermaBanned]

Out of curiosity then, what amount of -Con damage would you consider better? How much would be enough to retain some challenge while being completably fun but not /auto win?

[Hobgoblin]

Out of curiosity then, what amount of -Con damage would you consider better? How much would be enough to retain some challenge while being completably fun but not /auto win?

what i would like is one of a few things:

keep it the way it is, but add a tell
keep it the way it is, but only have him do it to the person hes aggro'd on
give it a save
allow something to block it: ie shield blockin, praying mace something

hob

[JollySwagMan]

The antimagic part is gone, huh?

Since Death Ward and things like Pale Lavender Ioun Stones aren't doing the trick...anyone checked if Spawn Screen blocks the Con damage? (that spell has a 'hidden benefit' of preventing ability damage from the attacks of some ghostly-type mobs, different from Death Ward but similar)

[PermaBanned]

...anyone checked if Spawn Screen blocks the Con damage? (that spell has a 'hidden benefit' of preventing ability damage from the attacks of some ghostly-type mobs, different from Death Ward but similar)

o.O? Gonna have to get a few scrolls from the Morna and check this out next time I'm on!

[Wizza]

Am I safe in guessing that all y'all (Hob & Wiz) were soloing EE? I ask because the -Con damage amount doesn't really seem out of line (to me) for top level EEs, especially when there's multiple cannon fodd- *ahem* party members to spread the damage around. But when you're the only source for any & all damage to be focused on... Yeah, gonna need that Resto at the ready.

You are not guessing right. I was in a group. I was spamming Heal scrolls everytime they were off cooldown but my CON was going to 0 even FASTER than the 6s CD of my scrolls. Ridicolous would be a compliment to this mechanic. It's absolutely unfun, stupid and I dare to say broken.

[BigErkyKid]

You are not guessing right. I was in a group. I was spamming Heal scrolls everytime they were off cooldown but my CON was going to 0 even FASTER than the 6s CD of my scrolls. Ridicolous would be a compliment to this mechanic. It's absolutely unfun, stupid and I dare to say broken.

Well, the majority of people do not face this because they run it in EH-EN.

It is an absolute cake below EE.

I agree that it is too much since it does not allow for any tactical approach to avoid the CON damage.

It feels arbitrary and unfun.

EDIT : There is also little incentive to run EE. Loot wise and XP wise, I mean.

[mobrien316]

Out of curiosity then, what amount of -Con damage would you consider better? How much would be enough to retain some challenge while being completably fun but not /auto win?

It's the helpless state the CON damage puts you in that is annoying. I don't find it "challenging" to be helpless when the rest of the party is as well and when there doesn't appear to be anything to do to prevent it. When everyone is helpless you just have to hope the one or two that aren't killed will be able to quickly raise everyone when they finally are able to move. It seems like a random death-no skill involved-hope the die roll goes your way scenario, which I find far more annoying than challenging.

It would be challenging without being annoying if, for example, your CON could be lowered to 1 but that's it, so no helpless state. That would force you to restore yourself (or party members) without simply rendering everyone helpless. The "everyone becomes helpless" scenario is not one I find challenging; it seems more like a shortcut to make up for a lack of decent AI by the mobs and bosses.

[BigErkyKid]

It's the helpless state the CON damage puts you in that is annoying. I don't find it "challenging" to be helpless when the rest of the party is as well and when there doesn't appear to be anything to do to prevent it. When everyone is helpless you just have to hope the one or two that aren't killed will be able to quickly raise everyone when they finally are able to move. It seems like a random death-no skill involved-hope the die roll goes your way scenario, which I find far more annoying than challenging.

It would be challenging without being annoying if, for example, your CON could be lowered to 1 but that's it, so no helpless state. That would force you to restore yourself (or party members) without simply rendering everyone helpless. The "everyone becomes helpless" scenario is not one I find challenging; it seems more like a shortcut to make up for a lack of decent AI by the mobs and bosses.

+1.

Add more mobs on every floor and leave people with little CON if they don't heal.

That would make for a pretty challenging scenario.

[Beethoven]

o.O? Gonna have to get a few scrolls from the Morna and check this out next time I'm on!

I can save you the trouble, Spawn Screen doesn't block it. My wife tried it on her cleric.

What (imho) is worse that heroic elite is as bad. The Con drain is part of the cold ray, which he does spam every other second now and does the same con damage on heroic elite - it does seem a little excessive hitting level 14-16 toons with as much as 20+ Con damage every few seconds.

I am all for there being quests with some challenge but this mechanic feels a little extreme and one-sided.

What a possible fix could be is adding more effects, have the Doomsphere circle through debuffs instead of spamming the same in two second intervals. Ie: Cold, acid and negative energy vulnerabilities, curses, reflex debuffs, shattering (reducing fortification), slow, anti-healing curses would maintain an element of challenge in combination with mobs like Ice Flensers and Skeletal casters but - again, in my opinion, feel a little less silly.

[PermaBanned]

It's the helpless state the CON damage puts you in that is annoying. I don't find it "challenging" to be helpless when the rest of the party is as well and when there doesn't appear to be anything to do to prevent it. When everyone is helpless you just have to hope the one or two that aren't killed will be able to quickly raise everyone when they finally are able to move. It seems like a random death-no skill involved-hope the die roll goes your way scenario, which I find far more annoying than challenging.

It would be challenging without being annoying if, for example, your CON could be lowered to 1 but that's it, so no helpless state. That would force you to restore yourself (or party members) without simply rendering everyone helpless. The "everyone becomes helpless" scenario is not one I find challenging; it seems more like a shortcut to make up for a lack of decent AI by the mobs and bosses.

It hasn't seemed like a broadcast/AoE attack, but rather an individually targeted one. I haven't yet seen a whole group become Helpless - individual members, yes - but when an individual (usually the one with agro ) is unable to keep pace with Heal/Restore a 'mate's usually able to help out -- yes, this includes pugs.

EDIT : There is also little incentive to run EE. Loot wise and XP wise, I mean.

Screen Shots of +6 Tomes in a chest is all the incentive I could ask for Granted, I've also seen a 5->6 upgrade tome drop on Normal (he was running Guild buff loot boost, but no Gem or Chest Blessing); but I don't have +5s on every stat or any +6s at all - so I'm incentivized

[PermaBanned]

I can save you the trouble, Spawn Screen doesn't block it. My wife tried it on her cleric.

Bummer, but Thanx!

What (imho) is worse that heroic elite is as bad. The Con drain is part of the cold ray, which he does spam every other second now and does the same con damage on heroic elite - it does seem a little excessive hitting level 14-16 toons with as much as 20+ Con damage every few seconds.

I am all for there being quests with some challenge but this mechanic feels a little extreme and one-sided.

What a possible fix could be is adding more effects, have the Doomsphere circle through debuffs instead of spamming the same in two second intervals. Ie: Cold, acid and negative energy vulnerabilities, curses, reflex debuffs, shattering (reducing fortification), slow, anti-healing curses would maintain an element of challenge in combination with mobs like Ice Flensers and Skeletal casters but - again, in my opinion, feel a little less silly.

Yeah, if it's doing identical Con Damage on Heroic as Epic that's bunk - and I suspect/hope unintended/slated for a fix.

I agree increasing the variety of attacks/rebuffs would be an improvement, though I can't help but wonder if it would solve or exacerbate the "this fight's unfun" complaints...

[blackdae]

Just did it on EE.. After a quick wipe due to the liches that spam soundburst we reenter and completed..

From my experience, the quest is far more boring and deadly than the end fight.. We had tons of deaths during the quest and only a few at the end.. If I remember correctly we were around 25-30 deaths..

It helps having a lot of ppl with scrolls.. Me and other 2 ppl were able to use heal and greater restoratione ones..

Doomsphere taking full damage and not doing level drain or almost anything a beholder usually does, helped.. But yes, getting to zero everytime is really boring..

It exhausted me