Epic Level & Iconic TR

[serenityangel]

Freaking out over a PROPOSED change that is probably a year out, and for one where the dev has actually requested feedback on the proposal (basically doing what everyone on the forums keeps asking for - requesting player feedback), is the definition of premature.

If you are making a completionist build, unless you TR life is only 1 week long and you constantly at it.. you need to make long term plans. Many players don't have a whole lot of faith in the developers about their concerns so that is why they are especially loud on the issue.

I kinda wonder how much you have TRed and if you have even maxed all your destinies on any of your toons once.

I also wonder if you ever spent any Turbine points on tomes of fate or keys to unlock faster certain destinies. If you had you would think that such would be a nice investment because you believed that you unlocked it forever. Now with this proposal you would feel inclined for a refund on your turbine points.

So people are upset on this proposal and expressing it. Some of them have legitimate concerns. Some people don't really care cause it doesn't affect them personally one bit of difference cause they haven't gotten that far in game. Either way it is too early to tell if it worth quitting over as they may feel inclined to not even touch heroic TRing. We can however respect that the majority of the experienced player base is not particularly happy with the idea of being forced to lose epic destinies and any investments they made when it was told to them that EDs would not be touched by heroic TRing when EDs came out in the first place.

[Ultramaetche1]

To further expand on Towrn's idea on page 24 (hopefully I'm interpreting this correctly)

The idea that seems to make the most sense to me, so far, is this:

Player X is lvl 28 and has all ED's fully maxed out.
Player X Epic Trs with Fury of the Wild ED active.
Player X becomes lvl 1 (not 100% I am reading the ED ranks transferring to Heroic ranks correctly)
Player X has Fury of the Wild exp reset to 0 and the other 10 ED's exp remain unchanged.
Player X now benefits from the Fury of the Wild Epic Past Life but has to re-level the Fury of the Wild ED after re-leveling to 20.

In addition, since Player X is not losing all exp in all EDs, Player X only loses the 1-2 Fate points from losing the 5 levels of Fury of the Wild.

This seems fair. There is still a lot of exp that will be needed to be gained so it is not a day or two of grinding to finish, but it will also not waste all of the time players spent grinding thier EDs up.

Just my 2 cents.

Make the Epic TR system similar to the current, whereas your heroic levels 1-20 are reset to 1, and ONLY your currently active destiny is reset to 1. Maybe rework the system to recognize that the reset, or bonded, ED's (FotW in Towrn's example) would be the only ones to count towards the "Epic Advantage"

With this method, people would have the choice between Heroic TR'ing, whilst keeping all their destinies where they currently are, but would not give you an ED past life feat (or whatever its going to be called) that the Epic TR would give.

Conversely, people who have all their ED's maxed, could Epic TR to gain chosen ED past life feats by resetting that ONE destiny and re-leveling ONLY that one. Keeping majority of their fate points, while gaining the ED past life benefit. Thus, if you would like to gain the FULL "Epic Advantage" you would TR the 11 times, or whatnot, but each time you only have to re-level the single destiny that you Epic TR'd from. Each time you Epic TR, the destiny would become bonded and THEN count towards the "Epic Advantage"

Example of what I'm trying to explain:

18/2/8 Barbarian|Fighter|Epic in Dreadnought with all destinies capped decides to Epic TR.
They will start back at lv 1 like any TR, however ALL ED's remain capped EXCEPT for Dreadnought, due to it being the ED he Epic TR'd from.
The person would gain benefits from "Epic Advantage" ONLY for the Dreadnought ED due to it now being bound, and when they level back to 20, they simply re-level the Dreadnought ED as if the ED itself underwent a TR.
Now say they hit 28 again with their toon, this time in Fury of the Wild.
They once again Epic TR, this time resetting FotW while everything else remains untouched, however this second time around they gain "Epic Advantage" from both Dreadnought AND Fury of the Wild. Repeating as needed/wanted until ALL ED's are capped and bound.

[MetropolitanCarl]

This is a massively dumb idea for all the reasons explained in detail by previous posters in this thread. Kill it.

[Towrn]

To further expand on Towrn's idea on page 24 (hopefully I'm interpreting this correctly)



Make the Epic TR system similar to the current, whereas your heroic levels 1-20 are reset to 1, and ONLY your currently active destiny is reset to 1. Maybe rework the system to recognize that the reset, or bonded, ED's (FotW in Towrn's example) would be the only ones to count towards the "Epic Advantage"

With this method, people would have the choice between Heroic TR'ing, whilst keeping all their destinies where they currently are, but would not give you an ED past life feat (or whatever its going to be called) that the Epic TR would give.

Conversely, people who have all their ED's maxed, could Epic TR to gain chosen ED past life feats by resetting that ONE destiny and re-leveling ONLY that one. Keeping majority of their fate points, while gaining the ED past life benefit. Thus, if you would like to gain the FULL "Epic Advantage" you would TR the 11 times, or whatnot, but each time you only have to re-level the single destiny that you Epic TR'd from. Each time you Epic TR, the destiny would become bonded and THEN count towards the "Epic Advantage"

Example of what I'm trying to explain:

18/2/8 Barbarian|Fighter|Epic in Dreadnought with all destinies capped decides to Epic TR.
They will start back at lv 1 like any TR, however ALL ED's remain capped EXCEPT for Dreadnought, due to it being the ED he Epic TR'd from.
The person would gain benefits from "Epic Advantage" ONLY for the Dreadnought ED due to it now being bound, and when they level back to 20, they simply re-level the Dreadnought ED as if the ED itself underwent a TR.
Now say they hit 28 again with their toon, this time in Fury of the Wild.
They once again Epic TR, this time resetting FotW while everything else remains untouched, however this second time around they gain "Epic Advantage" from both Dreadnought AND Fury of the Wild. Repeating as needed/wanted until ALL ED's are capped and bound.

That's about what I meant....Unless I am not seeing something in this idea that could present a problem it seems that would be a good base for the idea of Epic TRs.

[QuickSlick79]

Just to address people's passionate comments and opinions here: Keep in mind that this information is being presented to you far in advance of its implementation, and there's plenty of room to re-work the proposal in a variety of ways.

Yknow I went to go and reread the OP and couldn't help but notice at the very bottom it says "Last edited by Cordovan"

You can't just EDIT the original post and then comment about "hey wait, go read more careful".

I swear I read something about a soon to be implemented system. I almost could swear I read about it rolling out with the expansion.

Turbine has ZERO good history with LISTENING and then CHANGING PRODUCTION. Normally, by the time you have this rolled out it's so coded and bugged and then RELEASED bugged how can we expect a polished product?

Also, if this is soooo far back in production then prove it. Show us you will release a changed system. I can bet you top dollar that when this goes live we will see practically this ENITRE OP implemented just as it has been typed.

And it's annoying how you take time to tell us to "play nice" when it is a commotion and fire YOU started. I paid top dollar during MoTu for your epic destiny garbage you wanna change game mechanics on now. I understand it's in the fine print that you can, now understand it's human emotion to react negatively to such foolish plans and understand how you've lost customers, enraged them, and understand the only way to SETTLE the bickering YOU HAVE CAUSED is to bring us peace by showing that you are listening and

ANNOUNCE YOUR CHANGES FOR THESE PURPOSED DEVASTATING "UPDATES"

You've lost all future money from me. There is my pledge. Why?

You still haven't even answered the questions about fate points. Don't treat us like ignorant masses. You know **** well what we want to know and what we NEED to know to make preparations or give feedback.

The fact you CHOOSE TO HIDE details, even when PRESSED FOR SPECIFICS, shows just how much you think you can manipulate us. And I am just done.

Done with all the half ass planning, done with all the flip flopping, done.

[Cableman]

I am a Completionist with all Epic Destanies maxed, I plan on going Triple Heroic Completionist. As such the xp loss will not hurt me as much as the others. Please Turbine listen to the community.


1. Please let us keep our twist of fate points when we do any Tr. Granted it will hurt to lose all my capped epic destany xp, eventually I will get it back. This would lessen the pain.

2.If we have unlocked a destany, let it remain unlocked, even IF we still lose the xp.

3.I bought the +2 fate point tome, if they are lost do I get my TP back?

4.If we buy the pre-order on the expainsion- and own the Iconics- let us when we Tr into an Iconic get the equipment that they would get if they were a new iconic, or just make the iconic equipment be BTA not BTC.

5.It would also be nice to have the completionist feat and epic completionist feat granted like a class feat instead of bought, once you meet the prereqs for them.

Overall I do like the changes, they just need some adjustments.

I fully agree with the above post. On life 25 currently, I will continue to TR since that is what I find fun and it helps other guild members level their characters. I have 8 of the 11 Destinies capped and only work on them while I work on tokens for the next life. If I lose the xp for an epic destiny past life feat, that is my choice, you don't have to TR or ETR, it's optional.

[QuickSlick79]

I also can't stomach that this is a fresh idea on the table.

Remember back when people lost all their Epic Destiny experience when they did a TR?

How much you wanna bet that was just bad Turbine code letting out the new "update" too early? Kind of like what happened with casters and crits and spell power just earlier this month.

Methinks this has been planned in the system for a while. What? You say that is just paranoid talk? Gee I wish I could believe that. I wish Turbine had a history of trust, I wish they had a history of pleasing their players.

But really, they just seem to be self indulgent. It's like they are the only DM in town, and the only reason you put up with all of their stupid house rules is because you want to play.

Nevermind the group is always working against you, always finding a way to cheat you from victory, always thinking of a way to keep your power down.

Well, I don't wanna play with that group forever. Turbine you are way outta strikes. Want some more evidence you are killing your game?

Not a single LFM up for epic levels on my server. Oh, well that isnt true. There's technically 2 DEAD LFM's that ARE NOT REAL....cause yknow, Turbine fixes things. Your little "sneak peak" at our "updates" sure do show signs of driving away the player base.

But don't worry, I'm sure it's just random happen stance this is the third day in a row we have less than 3 divines online (including multi class builds) between levels 1 and 25. Yeah, real healthy game.

[oradafu]

Make the Epic TR system similar to the current, whereas your heroic levels 1-20 are reset to 1, and ONLY your currently active destiny is reset to 1. Maybe rework the system to recognize that the reset, or bonded, ED's (FotW in Towrn's example) would be the only ones to count towards the "Epic Advantage"

I don't see why players can't keep all their ED XP since it was earned already. Some of the EDs are absolutely horrible for certain classes and builds. Why should players have to farm through them again? Doing the XP grind back to cap should be enough to gain the benefits from TRing.

I will agree with you that the Epic Advantage should only work with bonded EDs. Again this will level the playing field for everyone who does an Epic TR.

So for Epic TRs, I'd like to see ED XP stay, but Epic level wiped. Each time a player Epic TRs, they can bond with an ED. The Epic Advantage only works with the number bonded EDs. So when these changes happen, all players will start roughly on the same footing when it comes to Epic TRing, no matter how much ED progress they have.

This seems the most fair, since players that are capped still have to level up 11 times to be an Epic completionist. Players that have varying degrees of ED progress won't be set back either, but will need to farm the XP for their incomplete EDs if they want to become a completionist, which at least one new ED (if not more) getting enough XP on the way to cap. So everyone will be on equal footing and no one will be setback.

[Candela90]

Yknow I went to go and reread the OP and couldn't help but notice at the very bottom it says "Last edited by Cordovan"

You can't just EDIT the original post and then comment about "hey wait, go read more careful".

I swear I read something about a soon to be implemented system. I almost could swear I read about it rolling out with the expansion.

Turbine has ZERO good history with LISTENING and then CHANGING PRODUCTION. Normally, by the time you have this rolled out it's so coded and bugged and then RELEASED bugged how can we expect a polished product?

Also, if this is soooo far back in production then prove it. Show us you will release a changed system. I can bet you top dollar that when this goes live we will see practically this ENITRE OP implemented just as it has been typed.

And it's annoying how you take time to tell us to "play nice" when it is a commotion and fire YOU started. I paid top dollar during MoTu for your epic destiny garbage you wanna change game mechanics on now. I understand it's in the fine print that you can, now understand it's human emotion to react negatively to such foolish plans and understand how you've lost customers, enraged them, and understand the only way to SETTLE the bickering YOU HAVE CAUSED is to bring us peace by showing that you are listening and

ANNOUNCE YOUR CHANGES FOR THESE PURPOSED DEVASTATING "UPDATES"

You've lost all future money from me. There is my pledge. Why?

You still haven't even answered the questions about fate points. Don't treat us like ignorant masses. You know **** well what we want to know and what we NEED to know to make preparations or give feedback.

The fact you CHOOSE TO HIDE details, even when PRESSED FOR SPECIFICS, shows just how much you think you can manipulate us. And I am just done.

Done with all the half ass planning, done with all the flip flopping, done.

Ill half agree with this.
I mean - Turbine made a great game and kept developing the game for years - and I still love it - Im gratefull for that. Its a good job.

But you devs and Cordovan cant really be suprised theres only rage and fighting in this thread. People think this is how itll be implemented and Id love to think otherwise but... You keep doing some mistakes over and over:
1) 80% of players says its bad idea, they try to change your mind - nothing happens.
2) On Lammania a lot of ppl send a ticket/bug report or write on forumns about some serious bugs - but its still going live.
3) Serious bugs that destroy half enjoyment for class, like: not-working wail, not working crit multiplayer enhancements and lowered crit % -> its really hurting ... and its a long time since it was reported.

We all UNDERSTAND that its a game with big code - bugs happen, also developers are all humans - they make mistakes. Its ok.
But reported bugs on beta server cant hit live almost every time... Bugs that happen on live only have to be adressed before thinking about anything else.
Also - lack of communication. Its 3-4 posts in this thread from devs - its ok, you cant waste all your time to answer to posts. But many other threads and questions are staying with no answer.

We - as a community - are not that horrible. But you cant blame us for something you have caused.
We all love and play ddo - and we are concerned because when sth we see as a very bad idea comes as "idea" on forumns - considering ignoring our bug reports and previous suggested changes - most of us is practically sure that this will hit live in this form. So we rage.

Even lately - how it was with expansion - everyone was suprised theres pre-order already with no real testing out or any informations about product.

We love you and the game. We just dont know how to trust you when things like that keep happening.

[DrNuegebauer]

To further expand on Towrn's idea on page 24 (hopefully I'm interpreting this correctly)



Make the Epic TR system similar to the current, whereas your heroic levels 1-20 are reset to 1, and ONLY your currently active destiny is reset to 1. Maybe rework the system to recognize that the reset, or bonded, ED's (FotW in Towrn's example) would be the only ones to count towards the "Epic Advantage"

With this method, people would have the choice between Heroic TR'ing, whilst keeping all their destinies where they currently are, but would not give you an ED past life feat (or whatever its going to be called) that the Epic TR would give.

Conversely, people who have all their ED's maxed, could Epic TR to gain chosen ED past life feats by resetting that ONE destiny and re-leveling ONLY that one. Keeping majority of their fate points, while gaining the ED past life benefit. Thus, if you would like to gain the FULL "Epic Advantage" you would TR the 11 times, or whatnot, but each time you only have to re-level the single destiny that you Epic TR'd from. Each time you Epic TR, the destiny would become bonded and THEN count towards the "Epic Advantage"

Example of what I'm trying to explain:

18/2/8 Barbarian|Fighter|Epic in Dreadnought with all destinies capped decides to Epic TR.
They will start back at lv 1 like any TR, however ALL ED's remain capped EXCEPT for Dreadnought, due to it being the ED he Epic TR'd from.
The person would gain benefits from "Epic Advantage" ONLY for the Dreadnought ED due to it now being bound, and when they level back to 20, they simply re-level the Dreadnought ED as if the ED itself underwent a TR.
Now say they hit 28 again with their toon, this time in Fury of the Wild.
They once again Epic TR, this time resetting FotW while everything else remains untouched, however this second time around they gain "Epic Advantage" from both Dreadnought AND Fury of the Wild. Repeating as needed/wanted until ALL ED's are capped and bound.

Yes.

Doesn't penalize people for playing the game, which is an excellent thing.

[Darkrok]

Yknow I went to go and reread the OP and couldn't help but notice at the very bottom it says "Last edited by Cordovan"

You can't just EDIT the original post and then comment about "hey wait, go read more careful".

I did some research and at least as of 2pm or so yesterday what's up now is identical to what was there before. I checked this by finding a 3rd party source for the post, pasting both posts into files, and doing a file compare of the two files.

I'm all for the tin foil hats right now but in this case I think it's unwarranted.

[Teh_Troll]

You, sir, have gone soft. The anticipation of scouring fecal-caked privies for a week pales in comparison to realizing one would have to politely answer all forum-submitted dev requests for the same time period. The threat alone should be more than sufficient.

You cruel bastard . . .

[Cordovan]

I did some research and at least as of 2pm or so yesterday what's up now is identical to what was there before. I checked this by finding a 3rd party source for the post, pasting both posts into files, and doing a file compare of the two files.

I'm all for the tin foil hats right now but in this case I think it's unwarranted.

I moved the heading Iconic True Reincarnation into a separate line for better clarity, as it was initially formatted in error.

[QuickSlick79]

I did some research and at least as of 2pm or so yesterday what's up now is identical to what was there before. I checked this by finding a 3rd party source for the post, pasting both posts into files, and doing a file compare of the two files.

I'm all for the tin foil hats right now but in this case I think it's unwarranted.

Does not change the fact that if you wanna participate in an ongoing discussion with your players, then talk. Do not go edit original posts (that are not even yours), and then tell us to refer back to it. Add something, chime in your own opinion. But don't try and tell us our attitudes are unjustified. Maybe take a look at all the rage and go "Oh, wow, bad idea."

You shouldn't have to do "research" on an edited post to confirm it's sincerity. After all, this is a discussion between Dev's plans and players. Why the need for detective work? Shouldn't we just be able to trust them?

I'm glad you have so much faith in them that all you can contribute is trying to slander another player by insinuating they are crazy by ONLY referencing a small portion of a post.

Turbine has earned every form of treatment from their player base that they get.

[QuickSlick79]

Hey guys look, I got a Dev to chime in to clarify why they would edit a post...yet...

Still no answers on Fate Points.

~shrug~ Did you not know about Fate Points? Did you not know they were part of the epic system? Did you make no note on what to do with their code when you started drafting plans for all of these new TR's?

No, I'm sure there is plenty of ground work for what you intend to do with our Fate Points.

So....answer?

[Grosbeak07]

I fully agree with the above post. On life 25 currently, I will continue to TR since that is what I find fun and it helps other guild members level their characters. I have 8 of the 11 Destinies capped and only work on them while I work on tokens for the next life. If I lose the xp for an epic destiny past life feat, that is my choice, you don't have to TR or ETR, it's optional.

Your view I think is more representative of many (most?) of the players out there.

Well said.

[Cordovan]

Also, just to note that the edit was made a few minutes after the post was initially made.

Last edited by Cordovan; 06-12-2013 at 01:50 PM.

[Cableman]

But don't worry, I'm sure it's just random happen stance this is the third day in a row we have less than 3 divines online (including multi class builds) between levels 1 and 25. Yeah, real healthy game.

I call BS, Online right now (Sarlona), there are over 50 and it's not even prime time. Sarlona isn't even the heaviest populated server.

[Darkrok]

I moved the heading Iconic True Reincarnation into a separate line for better clarity, as it was initially formatted in error.

That explains why I didn't catch it...I didn't flag tabs/spaces as that would just be too ugly to file compare.

[Teelk_Jafffa]

You just need to know your player base. I have 4 divines on Argonnessen and 3 other types. When someone needs a healer who knows me they ask politely. Guess what they usually get the healer they need for being polite.