If the game is too easy then . . .

[sebastianosmith]

Naaa, I didnt miss anything. What I did do was show that this issue is a two way street, and not just the fault of one group attempting to push all their expectations on the rest of the players.

Hey, I've got no beef with most of what you said other than the "your sacred casual gamers" part. I don't consider anything sacred, including whiners on both side of the issue. My only concern is for those rather disheartened and vocal players who seem to be here for the sole purpose of spreading their misery without offering or accepting any alternative. I sometimes find aspects of the game too easy as well. I just don't condemn the whole thing over what I consider my inability to find enjoyment in those facets.

[Memnir]

Would Turbine officially defining permadeath rules - no matter the number of tick-able options - be a "good thing"? I can't see that can of worms ever being opened, let alone sanctioned. The current honor system of most PD groups is truly one of the last bastions of the original P&P spirit.

I agree. I've consistently said I don't think sanctioned PD would be a smart thing to do since I started saying it in '05.
Which is, again, why I think Maj's post about posting about playstyles in the hopes they become official was misleading, to put it kindly.

I say experiment, talk about your exploits and how you play it...who knows it may someday become an official mode of play...

I don't think "someday" will ever come for niche gamestyles or voluntary and self-imposed rulesets. PD or otherwise... no matter how often it is, or has been up till now, posted about.

[Nitesco]

Why not try real life? It always gets harder, as time passes. Plus there's hardly any new loot anymore to make it easier. You die in real life, you are dead forever. What is more challenging than that? Real life, naked?

Edit: The golden age of internet gaming is over, capitalism has pretty much standardised gaming caper now. It's just another casino/slot machine, devoid of any traces of artistic/creative merit, to be run by shareholders. The future of any kind of original gaming will be voluntary community efforts. Anything 'official' will be lowest common denominator, cost/profit rationalized dross. Of course over time, being lemmings, most people will suck it up without blinking, having known nothing else.

[PNellesen]

If you find the game too easy - change servers and start anew. No items, no money, no past lives, no ship, nothing. Totally fresh start.


I've done it in the past, and frankly it rekindled my interest in the game as a whole.
I understand perfectly why people would hesitate to do this, but in my mind it's really the best way to inject the challenge back into the game.

Yeah, I've done this myself - I think it does make it a bit more challenging, although just knowing each quest inside and out does tend to make it easier. Doing the grind again for a new Bauble, and Torc, and Large Stones/Scales isn't exactly "fun" though

[Hambo]

I just drink a few boilermakers first...makes things quite interesting and I don't have to remove my gear either

Depending on the number and quality of the boilermakers, gear removal may not be an option...

[Hambo]

Artificially increasing difficulty is always interesting to play around with.
On Thief :TDP there was a couple of other ways of playing 'Lytha Style' which was Steal all loot in a level. Don't hurt anyone with any instrument, or any AIs at all, for that matter, and 'Ghost Style' which was the same, but you could never alert an AI to your existence.
Other games have build in modifiers, no rocket launchers, no health, melee only exc..
I say experiment, talk about your exploits and how you play it...who knows it may someday become an official mode of play...

How about bringing back the original XP death penalty on an individually selectable basis?

[Xynot2]

How about bringing back the original XP death penalty on an individually selectable basis?

As in part of the create character menu? Oooooo me likey!

[smatt]

How about bringing back the original XP death penalty on an individually selectable basis?

That should've NEVER been removed..... I hated it when they changed that, BUT it wasn't popular among the masses, and in fact as I remember the forumites were more in favor of removing it.

That game was failing though, and I suppose that wasn't fun for the newer players.

I liked it though.... "Darn it another failed Reaver.. Now I'm 164K XP in debt" Loved that game, but it was a failure


As for this thread.... I really find it hard to believe that the really good players are having problems being challenged. Do they really need other to provide them with challenge? There is this thing called self-challenge. Doing a quest without the uber weapons, without any healer, without bluffing out single mobs, without crowd control, no boosts, no buffs at all..... Start a new character, and use only what that character can gather from day one, no account passes... Solo a pure bard to 25..... Resouceful players have been doing this in DDO from day one.

So if you ask me, the poepl who claim there's no challenge in DDo are actually the people who are challenged in an ever so special way.

[Gkar]

I say experiment, talk about your exploits

Now that's sig material, a Dev giving you the OK to exploit and talk about exploits in the forums!

A new age has begun!

[Doomcrew]

. snip /rubbish

Yes, those that have accumulated gear and skills within the game should be ostracized
as they would like to enjoy a game that they most likely pay for .....

[blkcat1028]

Artificially increasing difficulty is always interesting to play around with.
On Thief :TDP there was a couple of other ways of playing 'Lytha Style' which was Steal all loot in a level. Don't hurt anyone with any instrument, or any AIs at all, for that matter, and 'Ghost Style' which was the same, but you could never alert an AI to your existence.
Other games have build in modifiers, no rocket launchers, no health, melee only exc..
I say experiment, talk about your exploits and how you play it...who knows it may someday become an official mode of play...

To this day one of my best DDO memory was completing "Irestone" on elite at level with a gimped Ranger/ Rogue. It was my first character and I was clueless.

I spent the entire time in stealth mode pulling one mob at a time with my bow and then melee when they got close. I didn't even know about hirelings, so the only healing i used was intrinsic to the build. It took nearly two and a half hours but I had a ball.

Like I said, it still stands out three years later

[fco-karatekid]

Why not try real life? It always gets harder, as time passes. Plus there's hardly any new loot anymore to make it easier. You die in real life, you are dead forever. What is more challenging than that? Real life, naked? ....

Yah, but what I've noticed is WIS and CHA keep increasing as you go and STR, CON, DEX, and INT start falling, so you really wind up not caring about the end game that much

[fco-karatekid]

now that's sig material, a dev giving you the ok to exploit and talk about exploits in the forums!

A new age has begun!

whoot! Forum rule change announced!

[fco-karatekid]

Someone has forced Chai to write something agreeable.

This can only mean that the post he responded to is very flawed and wrong in what it tries to argue.

Orrrrr, the world _IS_ about to end in a couple weeks.

[fco-karatekid]

A simple suggestion for a greater challenge; First Person view only. It sounds easy enough until you're surrounded by mobs with spell effects going off all over the place. Try it and see how long you can make it before spinning that mouse wheel to pull the camera back.

Just my 2c,
bitkaCK2

Red-named crotch - eww, no thanks.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Completing something that is difficult without inducing self-challenge is obviously more fulfilling. Self-challenges are mushy; absolute limits have real bite.

[Dark_Helmet]

I say experiment, talk about your exploits and how you play it...who knows it may someday become an official mode of play...

It is amazing that whenever we talk about our exploits, our threads get closed, infractions get handed out, and the nerfbat hits the players hard.

PS - Reported for requesting exploits be posted.

[QuantumFX]

Artificially increasing difficulty is always interesting to play around with.
On Thief :TDP there was a couple of other ways of playing 'Lytha Style' which was Steal all loot in a level. Don't hurt anyone with any instrument, or any AIs at all, for that matter, and 'Ghost Style' which was the same, but you could never alert an AI to your existence.
Other games have build in modifiers, no rocket launchers, no health, melee only exc..
I say experiment, talk about your exploits and how you play it...who knows it may someday become an official mode of play...

Your examples do not support your conclusion. The DDO team seems to be hellbent on finding new ways to screw over players that enjoy using stealth and guile over brute force.

And just in case you think that this is old news, let me draw your attention to this little tidbit from the Lammania release notes:

NEW: The quest "End of the Road" has a new additional quest objective. You must now kill a certain number of Netherese forces in addition to killing the demon to complete the quest.

[MRMechMan]

A game where players need to do things quickly, or shortmanned, or solo, or naked, or without pots, or with one hand, or while inviting 5 puggers to "try and help", or or or or...etc to find a sense of accomplishment...


...means the game does not really have enough challenge at the highest level.

Lack of challenge causes people to get bored and leave the game.

I mean...people soloed EE MoTU quests almost right away after it was released. WIthin weeks. Soloed. The hardest difficulty. Without resources, alone, on several different classes.

EN and EH are incredibly easier than old epic. And now we have EDs which are very, very powerful.

EN should be EH now. EH should be approaching EE now. EE should be silly hard, where the top players think of actually grouping.

EDs are brutally overpowered. EE is more difficult than old epic but it didn't increase in difficulty even close enough to keep the powergamers interested. EN/EH isn't even in the discussion.

I guess people will say "Go do stuff without gear, or without EDs".

That's stupid. Why grind for gear and then not use it? Why not use every advantage at your disposal? Having to gimp yourself to find challenge is innately not fun for a lot of people, including me.

I don't shoot myself in the foot before a cross country race so that it is fair on the competition. I'd rather they just got faster so that it is a close, exciting race.

[Forzah]

A game where players need to do things quickly, or shortmanned, or solo, or naked, or without pots, or with one hand, or while inviting 5 puggers to "try and help", or or or or...etc to find a sense of accomplishment...


...means the game does not really have enough challenge at the highest level.

Lack of challenge causes people to get bored and leave the game.

I mean...people soloed EE MoTU quests almost right away after it was released. WIthin weeks. Soloed. The hardest difficulty. Without resources, alone, on several different classes.

EN and EH are incredibly easier than old epic. And now we have EDs which are very, very powerful.

EN should be EH now. EH should be approaching EE now. EE should be silly hard, where the top players think of actually grouping.

EDs are brutally overpowered. EE is more difficult than old epic but it didn't increase in difficulty even close enough to keep the powergamers interested. EN/EH isn't even in the discussion.

I guess people will say "Go do stuff without gear, or without EDs".

That's stupid. Why grind for gear and then not use it? Why not use every advantage at your disposal? Having to gimp yourself to find challenge is innately not fun for a lot of people, including me.

I don't shoot myself in the foot before a cross country race so that it is fair on the competition. I'd rather they just got faster so that it is a close, exciting race.

You are spot on here, +1. However, the conservatives on this forum will probably completely ignore this post, or twist it in some way that fits in with their "don't ever change anything" mentality.