If the game is too easy then . . .

[doomteen007]

This is not true by a long shot. In other MMOS its not standard practice for people to beat the new raid an hour or two after release. There has also never been an expectation in most of those games that stuff just needs to be easy peasy so everyone can beat it handedly, then get bored because devs cant crank out content as fast as people people grind it and get sick of it.

I remember EQ and WOW expansions in particular where after 6 months, a handful of guilds had beaten the new raid content, and still could not routinely beat it 100% of the time. The best items on the server are only had by a few players on each server. When people can accept this, Its much easier to create a game where everyone can be entertained.

The issue with DDO players, is people caught easy-button-itis. People feel everyone should be entitled to success 100% of the time, and when this is the expectation, its not possible to keep the skilled players entertained because in order to do so new content would have to be pushed out faster than they get bored with the old stuff, which wont happen with said easy buttons in place. To say this is the case with other games however, is false.

As far as 1k dollars a month. LOL. Other MMOs do it on 12-15 bucks a month. Say what you want about "those other games", but look at how many players they attract and keep playing compared to this game. Its all because the expectation is set right when people begin playing that they company isnt going to dumb the end game down simply because a fraction of its player base on their forums complains about failure being a waste of time.

THIS. Hit the nail on the head man. WHY must we EXPECT that everyone, regardless of gear and ED's, is able to complete the raid the day it is released? (EN or not- personally, I think EH and EE should be the raid diffs, as it's a RAID).

I've a suggestion: lets turn current epic hard into epic normal and current epic elite into epic hard and then lets do all kinds of funky **** with the new epic elite: lets add more spells to mobs, lets improve their AI, lets add more mobs to quests, more traps, lets give them dangerous weapon effects (paralyze, vorpal weapons, vampiric weapons, level draining weapons, heck, give them a weapon with lightning strike), make them use tactical feats like players do, give them clickies or potions based on what "class" they are or how powerful they are, for example an orange named fighter could cast death ward once, and seeing as it is from a clicky it could have a lowish caster level which means it could also be dispelled, he could also have an item which grants him a permanent blur or some other effect.

There's tons of stuff that could be done to make things more difficult and interesting without actually just raising the stats enemies have but I've seen very little if any of things like these.

The cool stuff that changing EH into EN and EE into EH would do is crazy- making players that barely have 21 NOT expect to complete EH??? Insane!

/sarcasm off

Seriously though, if players and Turbine started to rethink what was reasonable, i think everyone would be more happy. If EN was what average players did to complete with 90% success, EH was challenging to above average players, and EE was an insane challenge to everyone, and it took that "TINY" top tier months to get above a 60% success rate, everyone would be happier- even players who struggled on EH, because it gives everyone room to grow and get better. If EE is completable by everyone, but only a few are good at it- where do people go? I DON'T think that 99% of the player base should be able to do EH, as it is neither epic nor hard then.

I know that Viisari's request that mobs do DIFFERENT things on EE means a LOT of special coding, and play testing, and bugs, etc, and is therefor (sadly) kinda unreasonable, but the sentiment that more hp, harder hits, and higher saves = higher diff is grindy remains.

I agree that the game should cater to as many as possible- but cater by giving everyone something to run, NOT making every diff completable by everyone.

[doomteen007]

Would that be why deathward was killed off, but the charm nerfs are still in effect for epic warded mobs? Why we've seen massive spikes in straight DPS output, but stat-damage remains a no-no? Because "The Playerbase" is all about nothing but gutting things directly?

Sorry man, you know I respect you, and I can even see why y'all are circumscribing how much you need to balance out given the obvious lack of resources to crosscheck the interactivity, but it's tough to swallow the notion of "supporting variation in playstyle" when anything but the lowest common denominator solution consistently takes it to the knees.

/signed.

[Singular]

I have seen a few players who have joined my pug groups say the quest is to easy, or that they just soloed that quest. Then most of those players who join in my group, they try to run ahead and die. Then they complain up a storm, oh i just did this quest, its not fair he tripped me, oh he knocked me down not fair. I would have killed him if he didn't hold me, or just some other lame excuse.

These folks will never be satisfied, they will complain if they do die and then complain if they don't, I have learned in my lifetime there are those types of people out there, and not to worry about them, and to find others who are not like them.

After talking to these super ego folks who join my pug group, a few of the same things come from them.

1. They do not do the whole quest=aka do not do all the optionals.
2. They use countless mana pots to do 1 quest.
3. they exploit - you can call them cheats, glitches, or shortcuts.
4. They spend tons of money to have the best of everything

First some of these people will never be happy. So no need to talk to them any further. No game will ever make them happy.

To spec out for a specific quest and to farm out a specific quest well your the one running your toon why do it if you spec out for a specific quest that makes it that easy.

Dont use mana pots

Pug more often, players who do not know the quest so well or don't have the right gear will make it harder. The quest is scaled, so if your all geared out and solo a quest its scaled at 3, but add some not geared out pugs having a group of 6 players with each adding 3 to scale you will have a harder quest.

Yea those players bragging they solo and then join my pug group and die, never mention the scaling, and you know what the biggest thing i found out, most of those who do think they are "geared out" and complain the game is easy and they solo then die in pug groups, really didn't know the game.

Turbine shouldn't try to cater or adjust the game to these select few who only try to run a toon in such a way and have time to complain. We the many other players in the game are out enjoying the game and dont have time to post in forums. We are to busy in quests and cant find enough time per day to quest. Work and sleep get in the way of game play all the time.

Most of these players by the way are sorcs. Funny thing is when you ask them why they don't try to run a different type of toon, they say, oh that build is gimped, or its weak. Well again they want the strongest toon out there and complain they made the game so easy for themselves.

And btw some of the most fun I have had, and those who were in my groups at the time also agreed, was when we did the quest without totally geared out players, with players who didnt know the quest well, or we didnt have the perfect group, and we either failed or barely completed the quest.

Run a group without a caster in it dotting, holding, or insta killing. See how hard that gets lol

Or make a group with the first 6 people who join no matter what their build is.

(Who is doing the traps-says all the non trappers) LOL
(What no healer? what what how we gonna heal? [100 potions cure serious wounds])

Don't use the short cuts, cheats, glitches. Dont spec out for a specific quest, dont buy certain weapons in AH. Build your toon with only what you yourself have earned in the quests. Don't farm quests for an item, do each quest on elite per lvl and lvl to 20. (Oh I hate that quest!! Why cause its hard??? then don't complain the game is to easy) Run each quest per lvl on elite then if you need more exp do each quest on hard. There is enough exp to run that way and not to really have to farm out one quest.

A game is a game, if you exploit it to make it easy then its easy, if you play it for how it was designed to be played then you will enjoy it.

Yeah, whoever zergs ahead but doesn't have the skill to stay alive and carry the quest sucks. Sorry they bragged to you.

You can't actually buy better items from the store, hey.

I will buy specific items from the AH when I want to outfit my character to its max, non-named gear potential. Tough if you don't like that.

You're right about running quests on elite first then hard. You will still have to farm, though. You can't make it to 20 just running each quest twice, let alone to 25 and capping your destinies doing that.

[I_Bob]

The number of DDO quests designed where you have to 'kill everything in the room' to get the door to unlock or gate to raise really limits the number of approaches one can take to complete a quest. If I charm, sleep, or otherwise incapacitate everything in a room, why do I still have to uncharm and kill everything to advance?


I would LOVE more optional completion opportunities that don't require killing everything as you go or invis running past everything to kill the boss.


One aspect of the Eveningstar rare encounters I like is that sometimes you actually need high skill levels in things like diplo, bluff, or haggle to complete them.

/signed! We need more than one way to "skin the cat". That would increase interest i a lot of the quests and inspire many bragging rights.

[Bekki]

Someone has to say it if it hasn't been said already...
"If the game is Too easy... Try Permadeath.

Nothing amps up a game better than realization of your own mortality...

I admit; When I play games like Fallout 3 and Rage... I can be a tad reckless at times....
But when I decided to try a Permadeath character in my Fallout 3 game...
Man did things change! I walked the wasteland with a whole new attitude...
I lived in fear of the death animation... I went into every encounter knowing...
"If I get stupid... I can get dead... Permanently!
That really ups the risk, and the challenge and your game.

Same goes for DDO...
When you know, that any adventure can be your last if you don't watch your step...
You get a whole new attitude.... Add to that only getting what you pull...
With no Passdown items... Or only one in some guilds...
And no Ressurection shrines...

Things get real... Very fast.

Kinda wish I had more time to play...
I might try Permadeath in DDO...

like I said; somebody had to bring up Permadeath.

/Bekki pours everyone a drink...

[Drekisen]

Someone has to say it if it hasn't been said already...
"If the game is Too easy... Try Permadeath.

Nothing amps up a game better than realization of your own mortality...

I admit; When I play games like Fallout 3 and Rage... I can be a tad reckless at times....
But when I decided to try a Permadeath character in my Fallout 3 game...
Man did things change! I walked the wasteland with a whole new attitude...
I lived in fear of the death animation... I went into every encounter knowing...
"If I get stupid... I get dead... Permanently!
That really ups the risk, the challenge and your game.

Same goes for DDO...
When you know, that any adventure can be your last if you don't watch you step...
You get a whole new attitude.... Add to that only getting what you pull...
With no Passdown items... Or only one in some guilds...
And no Ressurection shrines...

Things get real... Very fast.

Kinda wish I had more time to play...
I might try Permadeath in DDO...

like I said; somebody had to bring up Permadeath.

/Bekki pours everyone a drink...

I was thinking of making a base CON only elite setting PD guild LOL.

Only dungeon loot and no looting a dead member....if they feel they may die they have to leave something behind before they go on their quest MUHAHAHAHA

[heavenandhell]

Really challenge yourself instead of complaining that with fully geared toons it should be easy. Too often people cant even comprehend not wearing every piece of uber gear. Just drop the robes boots armour bracers and rings and try the quests again, you might realize that you need more teamwork than ever.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Man, I'm now to the point where I think I've heard every possible response to every possible complaint about ten times over.