Greatest Flaw in Randomized Raid/Challenge Loot: Psychology

[Osma77]

Generally agree. Shroud mechanic works. Dragontouched now sort of works (at least you dont replace a good rune with a random one and end up worse off). Challanges work.

I think they wanted to save time and let random generator do the job because they didn't have enough time to come up with well balanced choices. Why try to make a list of 30 items that are well designed and thought out when you can come up with blanks, add a list of semi-random effects, and let the computer work out the details. If the player gets a great, uber-powered combo, then good for them. If they get a sucky choice, well the vendor will give some plat for it.

As stated in previous post, either change this mechanic, or at the very least pair down the list of possible random permutations so that we get one of 20 random GOOD adjectives rather then 50 good, medium, and bad ones.

[Sn00gans]

First of all, +1 Key I couldn't agree more.

This almost has me at a loss for words.....almost. I honestly do not understand what Turbine was thinking. The only thing i can come up with is that the majority of them aren't really gamers and do not understand how frustrating it is to grind with no semblance of progress. Did they learn nothing from the Dragontouched Armor? Apparently not, since they are implemented this type of loot system AGAIN in their first ever expansion.

Then there's the "Coyle" raid (I know, I know, shes not Coyle but, honestly it still sucks and you probably won't play it so, lets not split hairs) Going back to what I said earlier, the majority of them aren't really gamers. No one likes escort quests, any game, any platform, any time, or anywhere and if you say you do....you need to be examined. Regardless of whether her pathing was buggy in the beta or not and regardless of whether she can out live the players or not IT. IS. NOT. FUN. Last i knew that is why people play video games because it is fun!

But, all we can do is hope that on Monday when this goes live....that maybe just maybe. they listened to us and did something differently.....fat chance right?

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

It surely feels inspired by some of Seligman's work, that about hits the nail on the head.

Learned helplessness? I guess they forgot we're not trapped in this game.

[GeoffWatson]

How about this?

Instead of getting one item, a list of ten (or so) items appears and you pick one, like an end reward list.

It would still take a while to get the "perfect" item, but you're a lot more likely to get a "pretty good" item.

It would be a lot easier to program than some of the other ideas, so could be used as a temporary measure if the devs wanted to add the "build what you want" ideas later.

Geoff.

[blerkington]

Hi,

Partial reinforcement is a great way to keep lab rats and people doing something again and again. The problem is, if the subject realises what is happening, he or she might get a little resentful about it, while possibly being unable to change the behaviour.

But I didn't post here just to make snarky remarks. No. I have an idea which will revolutionise the way raid loot works. Gather around all, and prepare to receive enlightenment.

Make bug fixes drop in raid chests. Seriously. Every so often, the lucky player will find a golden ticket in his or her raid chest. The golden ticket can be submitted to fix a bug of the player's choice. Hooray!

I for one would be crouched like a rat at the lever, avidly clicking it every time my raid timer light went green. And no matter how many times I got nothing, I would click and click again and again and again ...

[ZeebaNeighba]

I think Turbine is kinda big on the randomized raid loot, I have a suggestion (that many people have probably seen before, but I haven't at least, come on everyone hates raid loot mechanics somebody else would have thought of this).

Each raid completion drops the chance of NO raid loot occurring by 2-5% (so the chance will never hit 100, and even if it does at some point become ridiculously high you still can't make a choice over what item drops), maybe it will vary on difficulty too (come on, shroud shouldn't be the only raid with a noticeable increase in rewards on elite). Let's say you run a raid with a 20% chance for a piece of loot to drop per toon, and each completion lowers the chance of raid loot dropping by just 3%. Your first completion has a 20% chance of loot, your 2nd a 22.4% chance, your 3rd a 24.7% chance and so on. Your 10th completion would have a 39.2% chance of dropping some loot, your 20th 55.2%, even your 50th run doesn't have guaranteed drops, at a rate of 82% chance for a random piece of special loot. The rate of increase in the raids can be tweaked but I think it would be a decent mechanic. Players will have a benefit from EVERY run, not just a benefit that they can only see 2+ months into the future (the 20ths).

[Feather_of_Sun]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback! We've been looking this over, and I have to say, I agree. It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

[ZeebaNeighba]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback! We've been looking this over, and I have to say, I agree. It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

Good, now just turn that into how you don't want to see chaosblades on your casters and torcs on your fighters and it's all good XD

[MeliCat]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback! We've been looking this over, and I have to say, I agree. It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

Thank you.

[whiteline]

When will Beta open again soon I hope

[Expalphalog]

When will Beta open again soon I hope

Just in case you're being serious: Beta is over. The update/expansion that you were beta testing is now on the live servers.

It'll be a while until they have something new to test.

[jejeba86]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback! We've been looking this over, and I have to say, I agree. It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

AFAIK, the staff has two spell power random types. So what about the other one?

[LelandHill]

Yeah the random gen challenge loot needs a ton of improvement. I spent like 6 solid hours of running the 3 challenges I need mats from to get a Cormyrian Longbow that is utterly completely useless. Min lvl 24 and its not even as good as a bow of sinew. If its gonna be completely random like it is now then at least raise the amount of materials you get for completing the challenges. I was lvl 24 soloing them at cr 24-26 and I think the most I got was 80 materials for a 4 star completion....80 out of the 800 that I needed!

After getting that garbage Longbow I don't think I'll be running any of the new challenges until they change it, you can't even form a group to run the challenges cuz nobodies even remotely interested in running them. Better quicker xp from the house C challenges (time is money for example) and the chance of getting something useful is slim to none.

Also...I hope the raid has some decent gear cuz with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 items, I have yet to find anything better than what I already had and I've found a ton of random gen and named items. All of which either got vendored or put up in the AH. Only things I kept was the Hide of Goristro with strength +8 and 2 of the Planar Focus trinkets with dex +8 and insightful dex +3.

[Shade]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback! We've been looking this over, and I have to say, I agree. It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

Personally would of prefered this item to have the different variations. Force is nice and all, but doesn't work well for many Air savants, which are an extremely useful and popular build for the xpack, and often spec in electric + ice.

I think people were more worried about EVERY piece of raid loot being randomized. As that wasn't made clear in your post about the staff.

And yea the challenge loot:
Um i've run an insane amount of hours worth of challenges, everything I got was worthless. Most of it BTC too, so it got vendored. Oddly some items were unbound, but only my party members recieved them. Maybe adding a 5th enchantment tot hem could cinch it to make them start to approach named items DPS levels or make them fun. That or +1 threat/w/multiplier on weapons may do it.

[rakhtal]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback! We've been looking this over, and I have to say, I agree. It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

<insert fry picture>
Not sure if serious or trolling.
That will definately make force specced casters happy, but im not sure about everyone else. In previous version it was - I didn't get what I wanted, but I may get it next time. Now it will be - I didn't get what I wanted because it doesn't exist, so I'll never get it.

[Galeria]

Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

That actually is helpful as most people can now put it on the "don't bother" list, which I guess is your point. To make things people don't want...?

You complain about the toy, we'll just throw it away. That'll teach you kids!

[mystafyi]

That actually is helpful as most people can now put it on the "don't bother" list, which I guess is your point. To make things people don't want...?

You complain about the toy, we'll just throw it away. That'll teach you kids!

LMAO so very true....

[Matuse]

That actually is helpful as most people can now put it on the "don't bother" list, which I guess is your point. To make things people don't want...?

Depending on other attributes, you could probably find Divines who will be interested in that.

[Galeria]

Depending on other attributes, you could probably find Divines who will be interested in that.

Agree, some people will still want it. But most will be happy in the knowledge that they didn't miss out on anything good, which I think is the point.

It wouldn't be very fun to see a raid item in your name but with a Spell Power type you didn't want, when you know it could have had one you would have liked better.

The idea seems to be to eliminate the things you would have liked better. It's an odd solution from a thread full of useful alternatives and suggestions, but I guess this is the easiest way to go about it.

[SisAmethyst]

...Taking this into consideration, we're changing the one raid item that has any randomized properties (the Spell Power type on the caster staff) and are changing it to Force Spell Power.

Dunno this reminds me a little bit on


... so somehow there might be a communication issue.

I guess Shade got it right that the concern about random loot is more that everything is random and the low chance that you pull a named raid item it most likely come with a property you really don't need.

Don't get me wrong, force is a nice power but I guess most Sorcs will just ignore it then...