Let's Talk: Enhancements!

[Drona]

I realize not everyone will be interested in this sort of thing, but for those who are, here's an updated mockup of the race panel of the new enhancement UI.

This is nice! Looks like we will not have a gazillion useless enhancements just populating the current UI.

Also, looks like this is in "Tab" format, so we getting more than 3 trees..??

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Kargon

= Legend

[stainer]

Kargon make a few modimifications that SHOULD pretty much finamalize the design right away, can't get much bettermer than this!

This awesome can not be surpassed.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I hate to steal any idea from Blizzard, but why not have a "hidden" goof quest where all we fight is armies of Kargon's tasty hams!? (Ode to the old mad cow zone in Diablo). Akin to the kobald's amusing rants in the Cove, I'd like hear some of Kargon's best funny quotes Let him do the voice over too, Pay the man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfYInNvYyFA

Heh heh heh...

[Steiner-Davion]

I think that it is a bit unbalanced that these spells for sorcerers cost 0 action points (as they are part of the savant tier) and cost Archmages not only spell points for each use, but also a ton of max/permanent spell points to gain the ability when they purchase the enhancement. Let's revisit these as well.

[katz]

Kargon make a few modimifications that SHOULD pretty much finamalize the design right away, can't get much bettermer than this!

lol win!

[Glenalth]

I think that it is a bit unbalanced that these spells for sorcerers cost 0 spell points to use and cost Archmages not only spell points for each use, but also a ton of max/permanent spell points to gain the ability. Let's revisit these as well.

All of my sorcs SLAs cost points, not sure what you are talking about here.

[xoowak]

I think that it is a bit unbalanced that these spells for sorcerers cost 0 spell points to use and cost Archmages not only spell points for each use, but also a ton of max/permanent spell points to gain the ability. Let's revisit these as well.

Sorcerer SLAs do cost spell points. Wizards are still superior at endgame; I can't see any reason to nerf sorc/buff wizard.

[gloopygloop]

Sorcerer SLAs do cost spell points. Wizards are still superior at endgame; I can't see any reason to nerf sorc/buff wizard.

For now. Once Drow start polluting end game quests with their filthy Spell Resistance, the forums will be filled with the salty tears of Wizards who are relegated to the job of buff-bot and Web slinger.

[Failedlegend]

All of my sorcs SLAs cost points, not sure what you are talking about here.

I think 'he's refering to the fact that getting the SLAs on an Archmage actually reduces Max SP

[xoowak]

But the archmage enhancements increase it. Taking both foci and one line of SLAs up to five is only a net loss of 75 SP.

For now. Once Drow start polluting end game quests with their filthy Spell Resistance, the forums will be filled with the salty tears of Wizards who are relegated to the job of buff-bot and Web slinger.

True, but I don't feel we should start calling for nerfs based on what we think content that's coming out in 6+ months is going to be like. I think it's quite likely Turbine will lower the SR of epic drow a little. Also, if the new content is going to be more epic than the old epic to account for 21-25, those sorcs better hope the drow are xXxDrizzztclonexXx-types without a CON item, or nuking may not be an effective strategy.

[Steiner-Davion]

I think 'he's refering to the fact that getting the SLAs on an Archmage actually reduces Max SP

Yes. I edited my above post to be clearer on this. The loses of max/permanent SO also seems to be against the spirit if the Prestige Class/ Archtype.

[kingfisher]

I realize not everyone will be interested in this sort of thing, but for those who are, here's an updated mockup of the race panel of the new enhancement UI.

looks pretty. but it also looks like almost every other mmo out there. dont get the need to copy whats been done before but its too late for them to go back now as its pretty clear this mostly done and ready for lama. i find it funny and a little sad that they keep doing this and peeps keep falling for the 'we want your feedback' line when all they really want is to guage the support/outrage levels so they know how much extra xp/loot/reknown boosts to give out to distract and placate the masses.

the only question is how many of these trees are we getting? lol. from the looks of it they could easily add a general tab or additional class tabs for multi's. no way this hurts the game to do so. wont make it more cluttered or harder to understand for their new target 9 year old demographic. dont see a good reason not too.

[Aashrym]

ummmm thats EXACTLY whats Single Classes and Multiclasses are meant for

Single Class = Much Better at whatever their designed for
Ie. Monk = Higher Fist Damage
Casters = Higher Level Spells and hoiw good they are at using them
Bard = Better Songs
Barbarian = Rage
Artficer = Everything


Multiclass = More Useful in more situations due to having more options

Also Multiclasses CANNOT take the capstones as they have a Lvl 20 CLASS Level requirement. (IIRC it goes 3/6/9/12/15/18/20)


Taking choice/options away from multiclasses WILL cripple them..I know your a Purist but I don't see how you can't see that...if you want more choice than MULTICLASS...if pure classes all of a sudden had the same amount of choices (ie. 3 Trees) multiclasses would become useless

This is not true. EVERY race will have a RACE capstone available pure or not and EVERY race with have a RACE PrE UNLOCK that provides access to a capstone based on CHARACTER LEVEL.

The level 20 CLASS requirements MIGHT be applicable for SOME but NOT FOR ALL capstones.

Or do you choose to disagree with what the DEV'S HAVE POSTED IN THIS THREAD?

I can take a child into a toy store and tell that child she gets 1 toy. She has a choice of a more expensive toy in the more expensive section or a cheaper toy in the cheaper section. Both option are available to her. It doesn't matter that there are 10 rows of toys or 20 rows of toys in the cheap section. They are all cheaper toys. More rows might provide more chance there is something she might want but in the end the existing toys didn't lose value and the more expensive section is still going to be the more likely choice.

More choices does not change the value of the choices all by itself. It is the perceived value of the purchaser that makes the difference and that is entirely subjective based on personal opinion. In the case of the tree system we would be looking at tier costs that are already for higher cost (req) items already partially paid for in the previous AP spends compared to opening up new tiers for more cost requirements. So the effect ends up with purchasing a more expensive item for less cost than purchasing a cheaper item providing incentive to not want to open up more of those other trees, and if we can get a more expensive item for the same price than a less expensive item it makes sense to give those more expensive items a bit of a priority just to eliminate unnecessary costs.

Asking for more cheaper choices would never guarantee effectiveness in power or versatility. It is a request in the hopes the possibility will exist. There would be a higher possibility that there would be something that person wants but that does not guarantee effectiveness or versatility in the slightest.

In the meantime, I would never plan a character in the new system around what I could do in the old system. I would plan it around what I can do in the new system.

That means if I want to be a caster, melee, or some hybrid of abilities I'm going to look at what races, PrE's, and level splits provide what I am looking for. Then I will select what best fits what I am looking for and multiclassing will not preclude vertical progression in several areas so I would take advantage of that. If I want to make a melee there is a great chance drow, horc, dwarf, and halfling are going to be the choices for those races with what information we have now. If I want ranged then elf or helf. If I want a caster then that is not clear yet and casters do tend to make use of the higher levels more so that is more likely to be more effective pure but the tree system already limits progression in too many trees so that does not provide more incentive over multiclassing just looking at enhancements.

In the end, I will still be able to build that multiclass, it will still be effective, and it will still provide advantages over going pureclass in many cases. If single classes are designed for heavy vertical progression in one tree how is that an incentive to go pure over multi when multi has that same option unless they simply choose to ignore it?

[MadFloyd]

This awesome can not be surpassed.

I KNEW you guys would improve on our ideas.

[MadFloyd]

Also since people are speculating about it are those icons just placeholders or should we be actually garnering info from them :P

Yes, all the icons, values etc are placeholder. This is NOT a real tree. The value in this image is the general appearance.

We do not yet a real tree to share, but when we do, I will share it for purposes of feedback.

[stainer]

Yes, all the icons, values etc are placeholder. This is NOT a real tree. The value in this image is the general appearance.

We do not yet a real tree to share, but when we do, I will share it for purposes of feedback.

Lolth (All Hail) may spare you. MajMalphunktion will be Drider food.

[Failedlegend]

Yes, all the icons, values etc are placeholder. This is NOT a real tree. The value in this image is the general appearance.

We do not yet a real tree to share, but when we do, I will share it for purposes of feedback.

So no Elven Rust Monster -> Elven Masochist than

So ummm...about getting more than 3 trees for multi's? Any chance? Also MUlticlass PrEs, Favored PrE System, REAL Racial PrEs,etc. any word on those...not necessarily yeah or nay...just your opinions..maybe?

[Steiner-Davion]

Madfloyd could we also get the ability to do a partial enhancement switch/swap out option with these changes. Really stink's to have to redo all of them to just change out one.

[Failedlegend]

If single classes are designed for heavy vertical progression in one tree how is that an incentive to go pure over multi when multi has that same option unless they simply choose to ignore it?

Ummm...probably because they can't...you know those pesky class levels mean your limited how high you can go up a tree.

I'm sorry Aash but this isn't a matter of opinion..your just wrong...I know your worried about you precious Single Classes(which FYI I play a mix of Pures, Light Splashes and Deep MUlticlasses) but once you take away versatility from multiclasses you lose all reason to multiclass. Also by adding more trees NOTHING changes for pures so what are you complaining about.