Ranger Hate

[Gremmlynn]

Yeah, if they are build right, as I sead, I run alot of pugs, iv seen barbs my level hooting over joy as they crit a guy for 300 damg. Gotta also take into account that my arrows travel threw mobs into the next in line and so on. Iv hit as many as 7 mobs from one shot, usually hit 2 or 3.

So, if everyone else is so bad and you're so good, what do you need a group for? An audience?

[~Flexa]

My main toon is my AA ranger; ive also played ddo for over 2yrs and have seen and heard about the ranger hate entirely way to often. I agree that most dont build there rangers right, but i also chalk it up to inexperince at building them. Rangers arent a complicated class to play but they do require a bit of knowledge to build. As Flexa is my main and my first toon i will openly admit to not building her right to begin with but time ingame and help from guildies as well as others along the way; ive been able to fix her and round out her stats to make her a formidable dps toon. Yes she does kite enemies around in quests and in adventure areas but only when soloing or keeping them occupied long enough for the casters to get setup for the mobs. But ive also been able to tank with her! Inexperince or ignorance imo leads to alot of the reasons most complain about rangers, also having a closed-minded sense of them or judging all rangers from one experince will cause the majority of the ranger hate. Build them right, open ur mind to suggestions from others and be willing to tweak ur playstyle a bit can help get rid of the ranger hate. And doing a bit of reasearch about them never hurt either )

Ive been lucky in my experiences with Flexa regarding other players ingame, most have been willing to give her a chance and not judge her simply because she is a ranger, but ive also had some that i have had to fight to get her in groups or just not join that group altogether. I fight ranger hate everyday that i play her or my tempest but i can also see it from others perspectives as well.

[Ovrad]

Yeah, if they are build right, as I sead, I run alot of pugs, iv seen barbs my level hooting over joy as they crit a guy for 300 damg. Gotta also take into account that my arrows travel threw mobs into the next in line and so on. Iv hit as many as 7 mobs from one shot, usually hit 2 or 3.

Sorry, didn't realized the lowest common denominator was used as a standard here. How about all those drow aa rangers with barely over 200 hp at cap then? We should use them as an example of source of hate for rangers as well then.

[Dolphious]

Idk what other rangers dps is but with mine, ship buffed and imbued arrows + manyshot Im hitting 250 - 320(crit) every draw, which is better then alot of melee are doing with dps

Manyshot is great, it's the other ~80% of the time that you ought to be 2wf but are pew pew kiting instead that annoys people.

[Delssar]

So, if everyone else is so bad and you're so good, what do you need a group for? An audience?

Nah, I like chatting with people, and things go faster in a group. If im soloing, and I do time to time, I take my time and go slow. Sometimes im just in the quest to get the favor and xp because the quest is boring and thats when I join in groups.

[grausherra]

Manyshot is great, it's the other ~80% of the time that you ought to be 2wf but are pew pew kiting instead that annoys people.

Meh, I don't care if they continue to pewpew as long as they don't rip agro and then run in circles until the get caught and go down like a drunken prom date.

I'm, ok with people in my group being suboptimal as long as they aren't doing it in such a way as to actively lead to my demise :P

[Gremmlynn]

Nah, I like chatting with people, and things go faster in a group. If im soloing, and I do time to time, I take my time and go slow. Sometimes im just in the quest to get the favor and xp because the quest is boring and thats when I join in groups.

Then you play in a manner that nullifies the reasons you joined the group in the first place. Strange.

[junta74]

If I get agro (manyshot usually) I just jump over the mobs, run to the melee and sing a quick fascinate. Oh, RANGER AA. Sorry, confused.

[Delssar]

Then you play in a manner that nullifies the reasons you joined the group in the first place. Strange.

how so, the melee's dont need to chase me around when they can just move on, its the fact that they DONT tend to move on, they tend to stick around and wait or chase.

[wgperi]

From my point of view:

Yes, kiting is a problem, whether you think you can "take care of yourself" or not.

Solo and do it. It is not for a group, not in my eyes - if I have the choice between a ranger kiting one mob not with the group, or a fighter/barb/monk/paladin/rogue/<insert here> that is working WITH and staying WITH the group, I'm picking the anything except the kiter....

To me (and many others) kiting is not generally efficient from a group standpoint, it isn't better - it is a solo way to play. To me and many others, you hurt the group by not being on the same page, whether you like to admit it to yourself or not.

The biggie about kitting is the low hit points a toon can have, so he cant just "tank" the mob, need to run off while at same time ending to take much more time killing it than regular brainless crush everything barbarian way. I have a ranger as my main, and of course I share the ranger hate too, but not specifically to this class, but to a whole share of players that disturb the standard strategy for the quest.

[gloopygloop]

how so, the melee's dont need to chase me around when they can just move on, its the fact that they DONT tend to move on, they tend to stick around and wait or chase.

Because so many kiters can't take care of themselves and will need the party to help them out (even while they make it difficult for the party to help by continuing to kite). Add to this the fact that in many quests, it is very helpful to clear a room before you move on to the next and you have a recipe for slow quest completions and major annoyance.

The reason why you have more kills that the melee isn't that you're better at killing things than they are. It's that your actions make them less effective at killing.

[dkyle]

how so, the melee's dont need to chase me around when they can just move on, its the fact that they DONT tend to move on, they tend to stick around and wait or chase.

Not running off and leaving people behind who are engaged in combat is usually considered the "right" thing to do.

[Darlor]

First of all, it's necessary to distinguish between "ranger" as a class and "archery-based ranger" as a class played in a certain way. I don't think I've ever seen any ire directed towards someone just because of their class, given that rangers make perfectly effective (and were once the dominant) melee characters.

how so, the melee's dont need to chase me around when they can just move on, its the fact that they DONT tend to move on, they tend to stick around and wait or chase.

What do you mean "move on"? You mean they're supposed to engage the next encounter while one person is down (busy elsewhere)? That would make the ranger seem like a wasted slot, and is often considered bad form in general. And in general, why is the ranger even prioritizing melee mobs? Isn't it much more effective for the ranger to prioritize casters or archers?



Another thing I think this discussion needs is some context. What kinds of quests are we talking about? Different quests are conducive to very different types of play, and in many cases there's no benefit to kiting at all (e.g. when enemies need to die in order to progress).

[EllisDee37]

I love my tempest ranger, have been enjoying the heck out of playing him this week, and even I hate rangers based on the description in the OP. Kiting as a valid strategy while pugging?! Ugh.

Another reason to hate rangers is that they're super squishie.

[gloopygloop]

If you want to shoot enemies and you would like to do it in a way that is effective for the party as a whole, you might consider pew pewing at the enemies while you move to engage them with the melee types. If you stand still with the melees, then they can effectively fight the same enemies that you are fighting and kill them quickly and efficiently after you have taken a sizeable chunk of the HP away from the entire swarm through Improved Precice Shot.

The shooting isn't the problem. The kiting is the problem.

[Delssar]

I love my tempest ranger, have been enjoying the heck out of playing him this week, and even I hate rangers based on the description in the OP. Kiting as a valid strategy while pugging?! Ugh.

Another reason to hate rangers is that they're super squishie.

once again, if they are build wrong they are squishie. 75% fort, good reflex saves with evasion and not horrible will. My ranger is elf, and without gimping myself I have over 250hp, sure not alot, but when you arnt getting hit, it doesnt matter.

[Beethoven]

I dont see a problem with this, I kite all the time and end up with more kills then some of the fighters or barbs iv been with.

The thing is, you want into a group the question is not if /you/ see a problem with your playstyle, more significant is if /they/ see an issue with how you play. So, even assuming you have the dps and are capable of keeping yourself alive it still boils down to them getting to decide if they go with:

1. the barbarian who will likely stick with the group and contribute towards a group effort.
2. the ranger who will run off by him/herself and whom they get to watch kite mobs around.

Sometimes im just in the quest to get the favor and xp because the quest is boring and thats when I join in groups.

Yes, except people do not generally form groups for the purpose to entertain you and help you complete quests faster. People putting groups up usually choose potential members for what they bring to the group. Pew-pew concepts who basically go off doing their own thing do not contribute towards the group having a good time no matter how effective they are. Here couple of other examples:

I can take my FvS into elite Sins, Leap of Faith ahead and drag every single mob through Blade Barriers, making sure to stay far enough ahead of everyone to prevent them take aggro off of me. I did just that to mess with people for the sole result that my wife (who was on her barbarian and sitting across the room) started throwing stuff at me. Oddly, no one appreciated my blatant attempts of promoting the group to my personal cheerleading squad.

However, I go into Sins leet, Leap of Faith ahead, throw down a Blade Barrier and then turn to shield block at the other side, mass healing on myself if/as necessary and I get treated like gods gift to DDO. I could make a similar example using my Archmage who I respecced from Enchantment to Necromancy as primary focus. Insta-killing every single mob in the game and then dot-ing the boss may be effective but doesn't get me as much applause as you'd think. Hitting things every now and then with a Mass Hold, on the other hand, does.

[gloopygloop]

once again, if they are build wrong they are squishie. 75% fort, good reflex saves with evasion and not horrible will. My ranger is elf, and without gimping myself I have over 250hp, sure not alot, but when you arnt getting hit, it doesnt matter.

And if you're not squishy, then you can afford to stand still for a few moments and let the melee types beat on those enemies with you. After all, they already killed all of the enemies that they had. Why not share yours with them instead of being greedy and keeping those kills to yourself?

[LOOON375]

The ONLY time you should kite a mob with your bow is if it's needed (holding agro) etc. An actual condoned and needed kite is situational.

If you are constantly kiting monsters and the melee guys are chasing them in circles, you are wrong. PERIOD. If you can't switch to do melee damage, you should probably solo more.

My first toon was a Tempest Ranger. When I wasn't using manyshot, I was dual wielding scimitars to do up close damage. And then, my manyshot was only situational. I DID not use it unless asked for during a PUG. I never used manyshot in Shroud runs.

[Gremmlynn]

once again, if they are build wrong they are squishie. 75% fort, good reflex saves with evasion and not horrible will. My ranger is elf, and without gimping myself I have over 250hp, sure not alot, but when you arnt getting hit, it doesnt matter.

75% fort? Evasion is a level 9 feat for rangers and heavy fort is easily available at that level. Maybe it isn't the kiting that people don't want you in the group over.